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[04:18] < Lawouach_> morning

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[06:17] < MS-> morning

[06:18] < MS-> aa_: What's this about gsoc ?

[06:19] < MS-> I've totally ignored gsoc this year, for obvious reasons (not involved), but comments sound odd

[06:19] < MS-> Is this to do with python/PSF's involvement ?

[06:32] < aa_> MS-: the psf gsoc was a total farse during organisation

[06:33] < aa_> MS-: I have held my tongue until it is over

[06:33] < MS-> What happened ?

[06:34] < aa_> well 2 things I tweeted. 1. despite new projects being banned for gsoc, a project was given 3 slots that had 7 or so commits and a version history < 1 month

[06:34] < aa_> that annoyed me, because I develop an exact replacement for th elib in question and have been developing it for 4 years or so

[06:34] Reply: Hi, I'm a bot. I've been put here to answer faq's and log the channel.

[06:34] Reply: I've not really been configured yet, so I won't do much here yet :-)

[06:35] < MS-> O.K.

[06:35] < aa_> 2. the gsoc organiser for psf overlooked perfectly good applications in favour of his own unheard of library

[06:35] < MS-> What project was it, or is that impolitic?

[06:35] < MS-> Hm.

[06:35] < aa_> pyvcal

[06:35] < MS-> That's not good

[06:35] < aa_> python vc abstraction library

[06:36] < aa_> and I begged them to let "anyvc" have the slots and developers instead

[06:36] *** MS- nods

[06:36] < aa_> (going by their own guidelines)

[06:36] < aa_> anyway, those two annoyances need to be voiced now that gsoc is over

[06:37] *** MS- nods

[06:37] < aa_> (I am probably being slightly vindictive, but the fact I waited until afterwards shows how serious I am about having a good old-fashioned british moan

[06:37] < MS-> Having a mature collection of developers/etc and a large enough community around the code is considered a major issue

[06:38] < MS-> What was the other unheard of library ?

[06:39] < aa_> pysoy?

[06:39] < aa_> fair enough to have it on there, but 5 students!

[06:39] < aa_> I begged them for 1 student

[06:40] < MS-> It had 5 students working on it?

[06:40] < aa_> yes

[06:40] < aa_> maybe 4

[06:41] < MS-> 25 slots

[06:42] < MS-> Improved fortran support in Cython?

[06:43] < MS-> I'm blind - I don't see any pysoy projects here: http://socghop.appspot.com/org/home/google/gsoc2009/python Am I looking in the wrong place ?

[06:47] < MS-> I've found this: http://wiki.python.org/moin/SummerOfCode/2009 - which does indeed have 4 project ideas, but I don't see any of them listed. Were they under a different heading/project?

[06:50] < MS-> (not doubting you btw!)

[06:55] < MS-> http://code.google.com/p/pysync/source/browse/trunk/pyvcal?r=39 agrees with you after all regarding pysync/pyvcal

[06:55] < MS-> First checkin 1 month before mentoring orgs can apply

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[08:17] < aa_> MS-: sorry was away

[08:18] < MS-> np

[08:18] < aa_> MS-: well, it's even worse if the students for pysoy didn't get in, because they were making all the noise in the preapplication

[08:18] < aa_> not just that, they were taking up proposed slots

[08:18] < aa_> so other projects couldn't get in

[08:19] < MS-> I see

[08:19] < aa_> so, even worse!

[08:19] < MS-> Oh, of course I think I see what you mean now

[08:19] < MS-> Students proposed projects, and were then ranked and the pysoy ones were highly ranked pushing others out

[08:20] < MS-> even though they were then still not allocated slots in the end because of other even higher ranked things

[08:20] < MS-> something like that?

[08:20] < aa_> MS-: even before that, we weren't allowed to be a psf sub-project because there were too many sub-projects

[08:20] < MS-> Hm. That's a little odd.

[08:21] < MS-> (i'm good at understatement)

[08:21] < MS-> (I have to watch that sometimes)

[08:21] < aa_> hah

[08:22] < aa_> so I am really ranting off, but devastatingly surprised that no pysoy stuff got completed

[08:22] < aa_> in fact, that list on socghop is incomplete

[08:23] < aa_> I know of at least 1 psf gsoc not on that list

[08:23] < MS-> Those are the projects which google are funding. Is it possible the PSF is funding some as well?

[08:24] < aa_> well, not the particular one I know is not on that list

[08:24] < MS-> curious

[08:24] < aa_> really odd

[08:24] < aa_> I still ahve access to that webapp, so :)

[08:25] < MS-> The gsoc web app - ie the private backend to that public front end ?

[08:25] < aa_> yeah

[08:25] *** aa_ chuckles

[08:25] < MS-> Intriguing

[08:25] < MS-> :)

[08:31] < MS-> O...K... Just recieved a letter from E.ON claiming they need to change my monthly direct debit to £132 per month. Even though my electricity usage is ~£40 per month through them

[08:31] < MS-> *and* my account is in credit

[08:31] < MS-> That's all sorts of level of fail on their part

[08:45] < aa_> hmm, am thinking of switching to eon

[09:03] < MS-> Their bill calculation system sucks

[09:03] < MS-> They refunded me for over charging me last time round

[09:04] < MS-> Took them an entire billing period to do it

[09:04] < MS-> so bill came in april or so

[09:04] < MS-> I flagged "oi! refund me"

[09:04] < MS-> and then after next bill refunded me

[09:04] < MS-> to the tune of nearly £700 in June

[09:04] < MS-> So wasn't the least bit impressed.

[09:05] < MS-> Let's just say I've had a very short, simple conversation with them about it :-)

[09:42] < aa_> hmm, not so good

[09:42] < aa_> MS-: one thing though, tweet complaints

[09:43] < aa_> I tweeted some stuff about BT and now BTCare follow me on twitter and have direct messaged me to tell me I can get support just by tweeting with the #bt tag

[09:43] < MS-> Yeah, well. We'll see. I tweeted one little complaint.

[09:43] < MS-> Mind you I also tweeted something about a lulu.com order being delayed

[09:43] < MS-> and was then followed by them and it got sorted very quickly

[09:43] < MS-> which was really nice

[09:43] < MS-> (generally they're good though imo)

[09:45] < MS-> I just wish their postage was cheaper!

[09:48] < MS-> Oooh. Maybe they've changed.

[09:50] < Lawouach_> afternoon folks

[09:50] < MS-> hiya

[09:59] < Lawouach_> :)

[10:01] < MS-> Oh, and my favourite discovery of the day is that an anagram of my name is "Make lisp crash"

[10:08] < Lawouach_> oh oh :)

[10:08] < Lawouach_> how did you find out?

[10:17] < MS-> Saw a tweet from voidspace to aa_ which pointed at this:

[10:17] < MS-> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/cgi-bin/voidspace/Nanagram-CGI.py

[10:19] < aa_> hah, yes, just because you have a cool nanagram :P

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[13:46] < vmlemon_> Hi

[13:48] < MS-> Hi

[13:49] < MS-> Sigh. Just had to explain multicast again, and why it's nice in theory and totally impractical in general

[13:49] < MS-> (though useful in constrained scenarios)

[13:49] < MS-> Hm. Thinking about it, that makes a multicast transceiver a really dumb example for "how to build a component" page

[13:50] < vmlemon_> Sounds fun :(

[13:50] < MS-> it's made harder because there's some people in the beeb who believe that one day multicast will be THE way all content is distributed.

[13:50] < MS-> which is patently false

[13:51] < MS-> I should probably create a UDP broadcaster component actually to show how to do it shouldn't I

[13:53] < MS-> (For UDP broadcast you really want a dead man's switch protocol)

[13:54] < MS-> (which is of course rather trivial)

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[16:20] < MS-> Well, I'm no longer working towards a very hard deadline in just over 2 weeks. I like that.

[16:20] < MS-> Nice thing is the core of the work was made doable/real 6 weeks before the deadline due to kamaelia's structure :-)

[16:21] < MS-> Which I think has forced people to re-evaluate a) what they really want b) whether they want to talk about it now yet or now

[16:21] < MS-> which is really nice