[04:20] < Lawouach> heya

[04:20] < Lawouach> quickly before I forget, MS-, in regards to the bulletin board you plan on demo-ing at EuroPython, I would suggest showing support for Handle too

[04:21] < Lawouach> that way people will see you can easily offer a more traditionnal api to Kamaelia without losing functionnalities

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[04:51] < Lawouach_> morning but from work this time :p

[05:57] < MS-> Lawouach: Re Handle - Good Point.

[05:58] < MS-> Very good point.

[05:58] < MS-> I'd planned to show how to use the python console with a normal python application as well

[05:58] < MS-> Since that's a very obvious "win"

[05:58] < MS-> But handle is a very good point :)

[06:26] < Lawouach_> :)

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[08:00] < MS-> FWIW, now having Seq & PAR in kamaelia, as I've been writing these notes, I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that we're likely to need a "Do" component.

[08:01] < MS-> The reason for this is that it'd enable all sorts of funky stuff to happen :)

[08:01] < MS-> Especially when combining things together and writing more complex network protocols.

[08:08] < MS-> http://pastebin.com/m67f8c8c2

[08:09] < MS-> OK, that's a but bust thinking about it, but you get the idea from that

[08:10] < MS-> Will post to the list later :)

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[09:28] < MS-> Oooooooh

[09:28] < MS-> PAR is really nice for cleaning up top level code.

[09:29] < MS-> http://pastebin.com/m28e72d32

[09:29] < MS-> Note the lack of and lack of need for repeated .activate() calls

[09:39] < vmlemon_> Hi

[10:19] < vmlemon_> Meh, I was going to ask about DVB-T firmware, although I managed to find it anyway

[10:20] *** vmlemon_ accidentally asked in another channel, without a reply, and ended up Googling to find it

[10:39] < vmlemon_> Just poking through the /DVB_Systems/TransportStreamCapture.py example now (it's been a long time since I last looked at this code)...

[10:41] < vmlemon_> Not sure, but I take it that 642000 (frequency value ripped from the Kaffeine settings window) converted to 642.000000 should work?

[10:41] < vmlemon_> (Multiplex-wise, if I remember correctly)

[10:42] *** vmlemon_ tries it

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[11:24] < MS-> vmlemon: Yes

[12:48] < MS-> OK, example for Axon.Handle is using it to debug a GTK application

[12:49] < MS-> ie using it to wrap a TCPClient

[12:49] < MS-> That then sends messages to another Kamaelia application, running on a different machine, so that you can use Kamaelia for user testing as to what buttons a user is actually hitting and when

[12:50] < MS-> Additions to the GTK code:

[12:50] < MS-> from Axon.background import background

[12:50] < MS-> from Axon.Handle import Handle

[12:50] < MS-> from Kamaelia.Internet.TCPClient import TCPClient

[12:50] < MS-> background(slowmo=0.01).start()

[12:50] < MS-> our_client= Handle(TCPClient(host = "192.168.2.5", port = 1500)).activate()

[12:50] < MS-> and to GTK event handlers:

[12:50] < MS-> our_client.put(“Hello World Clicked”)

[12:50] < MS-> I think that's pretty nice & sweet

[12:52] < Lawouach_> :)

[13:06] < MS-> I'm also inserting a Python Console inside the same application to show why kamaelia may have practical value to people even if they don't use kamaelia for anything other than that :-)

[13:07] < MS-> As you can imagine that code is rather simple :)

[13:07] < Lawouach_> eh eh

[13:08] < MS-> may of course cause head explosion, but we'll see :-D

[13:11] < Lawouach_> :D

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[13:45] < vmlemon_> Hi

[14:04] < MS-> hi

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[15:27] < MS-> Task for this evening - finish off writing the tutorial handout. Nearly done.

[15:29] < MS-> it's nearly there. Just needs finishing off the walkthrough of the bulletin board example.

[16:01] < eikenberry> Any idea if they are they recording the tutorials?

[16:01] < eikenberry> I'd like to see it but there is no way I can my it there live.

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[17:28] < MS-> eikenberry: I'm not sure what the plans are regarding recording. I think the plan is to not record the tutorials because a) no video cameras b) audio issues.

[17:28] < MS-> That said, I'm planning of recording at least the audio of mine :)

[17:28] < MS-> Probably using kamaelia :)

[17:28] < eikenberry> Cool. :)

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[18:14] < vmlemon_1> Hmm, it looks like the link to Pyrex on http://www.kamaelia.org/GettingStarted is broken, MS-

[18:14] < MS-> Cheers

[18:14] < vmlemon_1> Goes to http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python/Pyrex/Pyrex-0.9.5.1a.tar.gz, which gives a 404

[18:15] < vmlemon_1> No problem

[18:16] < MS-> Added it to the todo list :)

[18:16] < MS-> Hm. Could get kamlogbot to do that for me.

[18:16] < MS-> That'd be handy

[18:16] < MS-> http://twitter.com/kamaeliabugs is the todo list btw

[18:16] < MS-> :)

[18:17] < vmlemon_1> Now to find another copy of Pyrex, without resorting to grabbing the whole MegaBundle ;)

[18:17] < vmlemon_1> Cool

[18:17] < vmlemon_1> Sounds like a good idea

[18:17] < MS-> here: http://www.kamaelia.org/release/deps/

[18:17] < vmlemon_1> Thanks

[18:17] < vmlemon_1> Grabbing it now

[18:18] < vmlemon_1> The joys of being on a relatively new system, and never getting round to reconfiguring stuff like that

[18:18] < vmlemon_1> Although it never even crossed my mind, at the time

[18:19] < MS-> This tutorial is probably the biggest document on Kamaelia ever written.

[18:19] < MS-> Hopefully one of the most useful too.

[18:19] < vmlemon_1> Grm, it looks like compiling the DVB bindings conks out here

[18:20] < MS-> I'm aiming to make sure anyone who's contributed to Kamaelia gets a printed copy at some point :-)

[18:20] < vmlemon_1> The Kamaelia Bible? ;)

[18:21] < MS-> Nah, it's a tutorial introduction

[18:21] < MS-> But goes into alot of depth

[18:21] < MS-> In lots of places

[18:21] < vmlemon_1> setup.py vomit at http://paster.dazjorz.com/?p=4441

[18:21] < vmlemon_1> Not sure if it helps, though

[18:21] < MS-> That setup.py vomit is standard Pyrex warnings

[18:22] < vmlemon_1> Aah

[18:22] < vmlemon_1> It should still work?

[18:22] < MS-> It'd be nice if it didn't vomit, but its safe

[18:22] < MS-> Yep

[18:22] < vmlemon_1> Although I'd expect it to not yield "error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1"

[18:22] < MS-> Oh, I missed that

[18:22] < vmlemon_1> Aah, there's a frontend.so file

[18:22] < vmlemon_1> But nothing else of use

[18:22] < vmlemon_1> And no suggestion of anything being copied

[18:23] < MS-> Could you put a gcc -v

[18:23] < MS-> into a pastebin somewhere ?

[18:23] < vmlemon_1> Sure

[18:24] < vmlemon_1> Just 'CC="gcc -v" python setup.py install' as root?

[18:24] < MS-> like this:

[18:24] < MS-> ~> gcc -v

[18:24] < MS-> Using built-in specs.

[18:24] < MS-> Target: i586-suse-linux

[18:24] < MS-> ...

[18:24] < MS-> gcc version 4.2.1 (SUSE Linux)

[18:24] < MS-> ie just in the shell

[18:24] < vmlemon_1> Aah

[18:25] < vmlemon_1> I thought you wanted verbose compilation output

[18:25] < vmlemon_1> Sorry

[18:25] < vmlemon_1> Doing that now

[18:25] < vmlemon_1> http://paster.dazjorz.com/?p=4443

[18:25] < MS-> It's probably not an obvious fix if it's actually failing, so I'll probably need to come back to that, but details are useful :)

[18:25] < MS-> As suspected you're using a more up to date version

[18:26] < vmlemon_1> http://paster.dazjorz.com/?p=4442 mentions non-existent files, but I assume they're not the problem

[18:26] < vmlemon_1> Hmm, will a GCC 3.x version be too old?

[18:26] < vmlemon_1> *3.4.x

[18:26] < MS-> That I don't know

[18:26] < vmlemon_1> Heh

[18:26] < vmlemon_1> It's a complete non-starter

[18:26] < MS-> It could also be distutils being anal :)

[18:26] < vmlemon_1> cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-fstack-protector"

[18:26] < vmlemon_1> cc1: error: invalid parameter `ssp-buffer-size'

[18:26] < vmlemon_1> dvb3/dmx.c:1: error: bad value (generic) for -mtune= switch

[18:27] < vmlemon_1> error: command 'gcc34' failed with exit status 1

[18:27] < MS-> That I have no idea what that means :)

[18:27] < vmlemon_1> Aye

[18:28] < vmlemon_1> I assume that it's trying to pass an unsupported argument to GCC

[18:29] < MS-> Quite possibly

[18:30] < vmlemon_1> Although GCC 3.4.6 20060404 (Red Hat 3.4.6-9) isn't exactly up-to-the nanosecond, as far as support for various bells-and-whistles goes

[18:32] < MS-> That's newer than the original version of the DVB bindings

[18:32] < MS-> Which have hardly changed since that date

[18:32] < MS-> Which is intriguing

[18:36] < vmlemon_1> Hah, http://imgbit.com/i638

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[19:51] < MS-> tdobson: Hiya :)

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[21:08] < MS-> Think I've finished the first draft (and last for this run unfortunately...) of the Kamaelia tutorial

[21:09] < MS-> 84 pages of pure unmitigated kamaelia :)

[21:09] < MS-> (divided into manageable chunks)

[21:25] < eikenberry> wow

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[21:31] < aa_> wow, my tutorial was only 20 pages

[21:31] < aa_> MS-: what day are you, I might pop along

[21:31] < MS-> Sunday morning

[21:32] < aa_> oh, I won't be there until sunday pm

[21:32] < MS-> basically it's more or less "everything"

[21:32] < MS-> If you have a mail address, I'll forward you a link?

[21:32] < aa_> aafshar at gmail

[21:33] < MS-> sent the link

[21:33] < MS-> or I could've gotten a clue

[21:34] < aa_> wow, taking a while to grab that one

[21:34] < MS-> It's 15 meg. Has pictures in

[21:34] < MS-> Lots of care and thought too :)

[21:35] < aa_> MS-: that is a *lot* of content!

[21:36] < MS-> Yep.

[21:36] < MS-> My intent is to go through most stuff in a fairly high level way, but then to point to the docs for more detail

[21:36] < MS-> Also means that if I get stuck for time, I can use that phrase to skip ahead.

[21:37] < MS-> The real "meat" IMO is sections 4 & 5

[21:37] < aa_> MS-: and what an awesome resource!

[21:37] < MS-> Thanks :)

[21:37] < MS-> I drew the picture on the first page too :)

[21:37] < MS-> Took me days :)

[21:37] < aa_> MS-: there should be a concurrency BOF

[21:37] < MS-> That's a good idea.

[21:43] < MS-> OK, that's a mail to the europython people with a pointer to it

[23:04] < eikenberry> hey... chance of getting a look at that?

[23:07] < eikenberry> jae@zhar.net

[23:07] < eikenberry> :)

[23:21] *** MS- gets some sleep