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[07:18] < Lawouach_> morning

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[09:47] < vmlemon_> Hi

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[15:26] < MS-> *yawn*

[15:31] *** Lawouach hands chocolate over to MS-

[15:34] < MS-> ooh, ta muchly

[15:34] < MS-> *nom* *nom* *nom*

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[15:36] < Lawouach> :p

[15:36] < Lawouach> could use some jaffa cakes meself

[15:44] *** vmlemon_1 wonders who at the Symbian Foundation decided to create the most confusing and convoluted source code repository layout possible

[15:44] *** vmlemon_1 is now known as vmlemon_

[15:48] < SamHasler> can kamaelia be installed on windows?

[15:48] < vmlemon_> Supposedly

[15:49] < SamHasler> C:\Users\Sam Hasler\Desktop\Kamaelia-0.6.0>python setup.py install

[15:49] < SamHasler> Traceback (most recent call last):

[15:49] < SamHasler> File "setup.py", line 24, in < module>

[15:49] < SamHasler> from setuptools import setup

[15:49] < SamHasler> ImportError: No module named setuptools

[15:49] < vmlemon_> Not sure when anyone last tried it, although I don't see why it shouldn't work

[15:50] < vmlemon_> Hmm, if I remember correctly it needed easyinstall or setuptools installed

[15:50] < vmlemon_> http://thinkhole.org/wp/2007/02/01/howto-install-setuptools-in-windows/ might be of use

[15:50] < Lawouach> SamHasler: you need setuptools first

[15:55] < MS-> setuptools was a mistake in hindsight, based on over eager recommendations at pycon last year

[15:56] < vmlemon_> Heh, and the alternative was? ;)

[15:56] < MS-> Only thing it seems to be useful for is easy_install

[15:57] < MS-> vmlemon_: to stick with distutils or build something better that builds on distutils

[15:57] < vmlemon_> Aah

[15:58] < MS-> (and only to package up eggs using setuptools - so that it remains easy_install-able)

[15:58] < MS-> That said, easy_install isn't really

[15:59] < vmlemon_> tricky_install and impossible_install didn't quite sound as good?

[16:01] < Lawouach> I've switched to pip+virtualenv and I'm much happier

[16:01] < Lawouach> thinking about dropping setuptools support from my setup.py modules

[16:02] < Lawouach> and go with good ol' distutils back again

[16:02] *** vmlemon_ tends to be suspect of stuff being hyped up as "easy"

[16:03] < Lawouach> Well it was heavily backed up by many big voice in the community

[16:03] < Lawouach> took me sometime to introduce it and I don't believe it has made my life easier

[16:03] < MS-> I think it makes the lives of a very few easier

[16:04] < MS-> Primarily those willing to type easy_install < food> and allow it to handle all the dependencies and auto install stuff

[16:04] < MS-> < foo> even

[16:04] < MS-> (must be hungry :) )

[16:06] < SamHasler> could you add a note and link to setuptools here please: http://www.kamaelia.org/GetKamaelia

[16:06] < MS-> will do

[16:08] < Lawouach> might watch E.T this evening

[16:08] < Lawouach> kid movie that never grows old

[16:08] < SamHasler> I'm going to try to write a bot that writes RSS post titles to an IRC channel, I've found a couple of IRC examples, but what would be a good starting point?

[16:12] < Lawouach> on which front?

[16:12] < MS-> There's some code in /Sketches/PO that downloads RSS feeds, which is probably a good starting point

[16:13] < MS-> I'd suggest an RSS poller piping into something that checks for changes in the RSS feed, piping into the IRC bot

[16:14] < SamHasler> thanks MS-

[16:14] *** vmlemon_ wanted to see something that does the reverse, ages ago

[16:14] < vmlemon_> (i.e. producing channel logs in RSS format)

[16:14] < MS-> vmlemon_: Surely that's just an IRC bot that posts to twitter ?

[16:14] < MS-> :)

[16:14] < MS-> which is pretty trivial

[16:15] < vmlemon_> Could be something like that

[16:15] < MS-> :)

[16:15] < vmlemon_> The 140 character limit would be the killer

[16:15] < MS-> There is that

[16:15] < MS-> mind you, doesn't seem to be an issue with feeds from friend feed

[16:16] < vmlemon_> Hmm, the RSS standard calls for a body and a title as mandatory elements?

[16:16] < MS-> cf: http://twitter.com/nlothian/status/1668646563

[16:16] < SamHasler> agh my eyes

[16:17] < vmlemon_> I'm sure that it should be relatively simple to have the bot spew a files that uses the title to dump the text that someone's posted as a "title", have the handle/nick as an author, and has a timestamp

[16:17] < vmlemon_> *an RSS file

[16:18] < vmlemon_> Grm, I'm surprised by how many typos I've made today

[16:18] < vmlemon_> Serves me right for not being able to sleep until ~2am for some reason

[16:20] < vmlemon_> Heh, that background is pretty nasty

[16:21] *** vmlemon_ wonders how they managed to bust out of the character limit, whilst still having Twitter accept the post

[16:21] < vmlemon_> I think I tried to type something longer than 140 characters once, and it drove the counter into a negative number

[16:22] < vmlemon_> Didn't try to post it, though

[16:23] < vmlemon_> kamlogbot: poke

[16:23] Reply: Not the eye! Not the eye!

[16:33] < MS-> vmlemon_: I think the twitter API allows for more characters for some things - it's an unexpected edge case I think

[16:35] < vmlemon_> Coming soon - the Twovel? ;)

[17:09] < vmlemon_> kamlogbot: dance

[17:09] Reply: does the macarena

[17:47] < vmlemon_> WTF? I wonder how RSA can get away with calling http://rsashare.com/ a "Free Software Initiative", when the software and source code in the free of cost download (after registration) is covered under a 3 year-long NDA and a restrictive license that prevents redistribution, except in closed-source software, and gives them the right to audit users at any time

[17:55] < MS-> free as in gratis

[17:56] < vmlemon_> Still, I can't help but think that there's some (deliberate?) confusion involved, especially given that there's source code changing hands

[17:57] < vmlemon_> Good point

[17:57] < MS-> There's alot of misunderstanding about various terms

[17:57] *** vmlemon_ blames the FSF a little

[17:57] < vmlemon_> ;)

[17:59] < vmlemon_> If they'd have called it Shared Source, or similar, then people would know what they're getting into

[18:00] < vmlemon_> Or just Publicly Available Source

[18:00] < vmlemon_> Visible Source? I don't know...

[18:05] < vmlemon_> Still, it's a crafty trick on their part

[18:05] < vmlemon_> Although I assume that they're not targeting "people in the know"

[18:07] < vmlemon_> Still, there's a reason why I call it Open Source most of the time, and this sort of stuff is partially why - it leaves little wiggle room for confusion or misinterpretation

[18:09] < MS-> It's highly likely that they've charged for access to source in the past

[18:09] < MS-> (embedded systems etc)

[18:10] < vmlemon_> They do mention that it's "the same codebase, as used by [[big laundry list of vendors]]", barring some missing functionality that they want to upsell people on

[18:10] < vmlemon_> (FIPS-compliant encryption strengths or something like that)

[18:10] < vmlemon_> So that could be partially to do with it

[18:12] < vmlemon_> Heh, I'm surprised that Wikipedia has an article on shopping lists, of all things

[21:35] < MS-> night all :)

[21:35] *** MS- has parted #kamaelia

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