[07:33] < Patrick`> that whole bus thing lets the side down

[07:33] < Patrick`> the alpha course boards are subtle, indirect

[07:52] *** mhrd has joined #kamaelia

[09:16] *** Uraeus has joined #kamaelia

[09:51] < mhrd> anyone else having problems resolving DNS for kamaelia.org ?

[11:50] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[12:35] *** j_baker has joined #kamaelia

[13:34] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[13:37] < vmlemon_> Hi

[13:38] < Davbo> Hey

[15:47] < mhrd> anyone else having problems resolving DNS for kamaelia.org ?

[15:48] *** vmlemon_ tried

[15:48] < vmlemon_> *tries

[15:49] < vmlemon_> I don't even get anything from ping

[15:49] < vmlemon_> Aha, "ping: unknown host www.kamaelia.org"

[15:56] < mhrd> been like that all day afaict

[15:56] < mhrd> was fine yesterday tho

[15:57] < mhrd> the server itself is still up and at the IP address it should be. It is just DNS that seems to be borked.

[15:59] *** vmlemon_ does a "dig"

[15:59] < vmlemon_> ; < < >> DiG 9.5.1b3-RedHat-9.5.1-0.9.b3.fc10 < < >> www.kamaelia.org

[15:59] < vmlemon_> ;; global options: printcmd

[15:59] < vmlemon_> ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached

[16:34] < vmlemon_> kamlogbot: dance

[16:34] Reply: does the macarena

[16:38] *** jae_ is now known as eikenberry

[16:40] < Davbo> this has happened before mhrd- http://twitter.com/kamaelian/statuses/1074070788

[16:41] < mhrd> ah, ta Davbo.

[16:41] < mhrd> makes sense - did some digging and kinda guessed - based on what box appeared to be set as the dns server

[16:45] < Davbo> np mhrd

[16:58] *** j_baker has joined #kamaelia

[16:58] < vmlemon_> Hi j_baker

[16:58] < j_baker> hello

[17:23] < Davbo> if anyone needs to scrape some websites for anything, scrapy is a great little library. www.scrapy.org

[17:25] < Davbo> going to play with google calendar python library now

[17:26] *** Davbo just had a wispa bar

[17:26] *** vmlemon_ hasn't seen them for ages

[17:26] < vmlemon_> Didn't they used to make mint-flavour Wispas, at one time?

[17:27] < Davbo> Yeah not sure if they resurrected those ones unfortunately

[17:27] < Davbo> felt retro eating a Wispa but then i remembered that I don't really like them much anyway :P

[17:28] < vmlemon_> Heh

[17:29] < vmlemon_> Don't know why, but I thought that'd be a good name for a Twitter client ;)

[17:32] < Davbo> Twispa?

[17:32] < vmlemon_> Hah

[17:33] < vmlemon_> Meh, I keep getting HTTP timeouts whilst trying to connect to Wikipedia

[18:31] *** davbop has joined #kamaelia

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[20:28] *** MS- has joined #kamaelia

[20:28] < MS-> evening

[20:29] < vmlemon_> Hi

[20:32] *** mhrd-home has joined #kamaelia

[20:43] < MS-> mhrd-home: regarding

[20:43] < MS-> [21:52] < mhrd-home> background().start()

[20:43] < MS-> [21:52] < mhrd-home> mycomponent().activate()

[20:43] < MS-> [21:52] < mhrd-home> might result in the mycomponent instance being activated in a different scheduler

[20:44] < MS-> It won't

[20:44] < MS-> background().start() means that this scheduler is started:

[20:45] < MS-> scheduler.run.waitForOne()

[20:45] < MS-> scheduler.run.runThreads(slowmo = self.slowmo)

[20:45] < MS-> scheduler.run is set here:

[20:45] < MS-> if not scheduler.run: # If no scheduler already allocated...

[20:45] < MS-> scheduler.run = self # Make this scheduler the singleton scheduler.

[20:46] < MS-> which is in scheduler.__init__

[20:46] < MS-> which means this line at the end of Scheduler.py

[20:46] < MS-> microprocess.setSchedulerClass(scheduler)

[20:46] < MS-> scheduler() # Initialise the class.

[20:46] < MS-> guarantees that they're all singing from the songsheet

[20:47] < MS-> .activate with no-args, means this path:

[20:47] < MS-> def activate(self, Scheduler=None.... )

[20:47] < MS-> if Scheduler is not None:

[20:47] < MS-> ...

[20:47] < MS-> else:

[20:47] < MS-> self.__class__.schedulerClass.run._addThread(self)

[20:47] < MS-> self.scheduler = self.__class__.schedulerClass.run

[20:48] < MS-> Which is why that code path can't end up with the wrong scheduler

[20:49] < MS-> Mainly really because it's all using the same scheduler as normal really

[20:49] < MS-> except background.start() is just running it in the background rather than foreground

[20:50] < MS-> Incidentally Handle is the replacement for LikeFile :)

[20:52] < MS-> "[22:32] < mhrd-home> heh ... uk Advertising Standards Authority effectively being asked (imo) to rule on the probability of God's existence: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7818980.stm"

[20:52] < MS-> They can sidestep that - its not actually advertising anything is it? It's just someone using advertising space to promote a particular belief

[20:54] < vmlemon_> True

[20:54] < mhrd-home> you'd make Richard Dawkins very unhappy calling it a belief :-)

[20:55] < MS-> It is as much a belief as the counter point

[20:55] < vmlemon_> More like "promoting the lack of a particular belief"? ;)

[20:55] < MS-> The lack of a need for a deity does not prove the non-existence of a deity

[20:56] < MS-> Indeed it could mean that if there was one, that it wasn't as powerful as people were led to believe perhaps

[20:56] < MS-> (ie this deity does not function as advertised, and contrary to advertising other deities are available - in a variety of colours and flavours)

[20:56] < MS-> < /tongue in cheek>

[20:56] < vmlemon_> I've always felt that there couldn't be a deity, since there'd be a Chicken and Egg problem - i.e. no-one/nothing to create the deity, as strange as it sounds

[20:57] < vmlemon_> and so on...

[20:57] < MS-> It's turtles all the way down

[20:57] < mhrd-home> re. background and race conditions ...

[20:58] < vmlemon_> "The God Myth - Busted by #Kamaelia!" ;)

[20:58] < mhrd-home> yep - I see what you're saying now MS- ... ta for the clarification

[20:58] < mhrd-home> what about the case when zap=True ?

[20:58] < MS-> heh

[20:58] < MS-> In which case there may be an issue, but that's _only_ used inside the multiprocess stuff

[20:58] < mhrd-home> granted I'm guessing its not the normal/recommended mode of operation

[20:58] < MS-> and it's rather experimental really

[20:58] < MS-> also, if you haven't seen it, there's this - http://www.kamaelia.org/AxonHandle

[20:59] < MS-> which was written for the release notes

[20:59] < MS-> Shows the full relationship between bits

[21:00] < MS-> Basically it turned out that Patrick`'s likefile code was too unreliable with many components - especially graphics, so I rewrote it.

[21:00] < mhrd-home> ta - hadn't spotted Handle.py ... will pillage the URL you've just provided, as I see fit, for docs

[21:00] < MS-> :)

[21:00] *** mhrd-home decides to try Handle.py first before writing about it :-)

[21:00] < MS-> Unfortunately Handle only supports standard in/out boxes, but it is more friendly overal

[21:01] < MS-> There are examples in both Axon/Examples/Handle and Kamaelia/Examples/Handle

[21:01] < MS-> fwiw

[21:01] *** mhrd-home looking at them

[21:02] < mhrd-home> fwiw: I'm slightly surprised - was expecting it to be a component you shove into the pipeline, not a wrapper/chassis component itself

[21:03] < MS-> ERRNOPARSE

[21:04] < MS-> :)

[21:04] < MS-> "it" is ambiguous :)

[21:04] < mhrd-home> it = Handle

[21:04] < mhrd-home> I was expecting something like:

[21:04] < mhrd-home> output = Handle()

[21:04] < mhrd-home> Pipeline(DataSource(),handle).run()

[21:05] < MS-> Oh, I see

[21:05] < MS-> No handle was just going to be a rename of LikeFile

[21:05] < MS-> But it showed up issues with LikeFile, hence the rewrite as well

[21:05] < MS-> LikeFile has connotations in python which aren't valid

[21:06] < MS-> since it gives the assumption you could do this:

[21:06] < aa_> MS-: hi, never got a chance to discuss the new Doctor with you

[21:06] < MS-> thing = LikeFile( .... )

[21:06] < MS-> for X in thing:

[21:06] < MS-> do something

[21:08] < MS-> The rationale was that Handle was therefore a better name

[21:08] < MS-> ala - file handle - picked the latter word rather than former :)

[21:12] < MS-> The debate is probably somewhere in the logs

[21:12] < MS-> aa_: I'm still not sure about the new Doctor yet

[21:13] < MS-> He may be 26, but he looks 12 - I also haven't seen anything he's been in yet, so I really can't judge

[21:13] < MS-> Also, I hated the idea of Davison originally, and he turned out great

[21:13] < MS-> So I think its unfair to really judge him before he gets a chance to act it.

[21:13] < MS-> He may suck or not

[21:13] < MS-> if he sucks they kill him and put a new person in his place :-D

[21:16] < MS-> BTW the oddity with DNS is that it's hosted on my DSL box to get around the fact that if it

[21:16] < MS-> wasn't everyone outside the BBC would be able to see the kamaelia website,

[21:16] < MS-> but no-one inside the *bulk* of the BBC would be able to see it

[21:17] < MS-> Unfortunately, the machine the DNS is actually hosted on is (oddly) becoming flakier - for reasons which are currently unknown.

[21:20] < MS-> Oh mhrd-home I'll be down in KW on tuesday

[21:20] < MS-> I was chatting to Adrian who said that Matthew P suggested it would be a good idea for me to come down.

[21:20] < mhrd-home> MS- : cool - stop by and say hi :-)

[21:20] < MS-> Indeed :)

[21:21] < MS-> I'm not actually sure when the last time I came down was !

[21:21] < mhrd-home> hmm, I@m not sure either. I'm still at the same desk in the same chair :-)

[21:23] < MS-> cool

[21:35] *** MS- is tired and calls it a night (went to liverpool & back today and suffered painful presentations, so I think sleep is in order)

[21:35] *** MS- is now known as ms-afk

[22:50] < Patrick`> ooh

[22:50] < Patrick`> new code

[22:50] < Patrick`> (that I can understand viscerally)

[22:55] < Patrick`> it's also considerably simpler

[23:33] *** mhrd-home has parted #kamaelia