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[10:09] < MS-> greetings

[10:17] < Uraeus> good morning

[10:17] < Uraeus> (puh, managed to get that 'good morning' in with just 5 minutes to go)

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[17:14] < vmlemon_> Hi

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[19:11] < MS-> evening

[19:14] < vmlemon_> Hi MS-

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[19:34] < j_baker> MS-: I just made a post to the mailing list to try to clear up some issues that seemed to be confusing based on the comments. I'll be here for a little while if you have questions.

[19:38] < MS-> The explanation of what your naming means is useful. As noted in my comments I was very aware that you were probably very clear on what you mean by them, but the meaning isn't clear.

[19:39] < j_baker> Understandable. I had to think about them myself when I first looked at the branch again. :-)

[19:40] < MS-> That's the problem with naming - it's one of the harder things to do

[19:41] < MS-> With reference to "pop" for example

[19:41] < MS-> it comes with baggage, meaning I expect a result

[19:41] < MS-> eg:

[19:41] < MS-> >>> X=stack()

[19:41] < MS-> >>> X.push(1)

[19:41] < MS-> >>> X.push(2)

[19:41] < MS-> >>> X.pop()

[19:41] < MS-> 2

[19:41] < MS-> >>> X.pop()

[19:41] < MS-> 1

[19:41] < MS-> Which isn't really what you mean - you're really stripping the stem

[19:42] < MS-> I did think about doing things piecemeal - in terms of renames

[19:42] < MS-> and then I thought actually going through it all and then reviewing would make more sense.

[19:42] < MS-> It took a long while to come up with the term "Chassis" for example

[19:42] < MS-> But we went through things including the phrase "Backplane"

[19:43] < MS-> which made us go "Hmm, OK, park that one, maybe come back to"

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[19:44] < MS-> Also, as you can probably tell, I'm pondering renaming the original components names in the HTTP code - since they're not fantastic really

[19:44] < MS-> But I also don't want to screw over the rest of the code in your branch in the process :)

[19:44] < MS-> for obvious reasons :)

[19:44] < j_baker> Agreed. :-)

[19:44] < j_baker> (on both counts)

[19:45] < MS-> Also, re putting in Support - I liked that BTW

[19:45] < MS-> Which is perhaps difficult to tell just from the random annotations :)

[19:46] < j_baker> Meh. It would seem kind of dumb to mark up the things I did right.

[19:47] < MS-> It's all technically "right" since the code works. :)

[19:47] < MS-> It's also all a massive improvement :)

[19:47] < MS-> which is so much easier to see in discrete chunks like this :)

[19:48] < j_baker> Indeed. I felt like the previous HTTPServer setup encouraged too much code duplication (but did allow for a lot of modification).

[19:50] < MS-> You have to remember that Ryan did it as a side project during GSOC 2 years back, without being prompted and just went off and did it. Since he was massively ahead on his main project it was fun to watch and got to a very useable state given the short time period.

[19:50] < MS-> There are some parts which are painful though

[19:50] < MS-> as you've seen

[19:50] < mhrd-home> almost nothing is ever quite right first time (hi all!)

[19:51] < MS-> (it was somewhere between 2& 3 weeks he spent on it)

[19:51] < MS-> mhrd-home: Hiya & indeed

[19:51] < MS-> Also r0ml likes to say "release the crap & then improve"

[19:52] < MS-> To be fair it's not that bad - just naive in many places, and Ryan was pre-university :-)

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[20:45] *** mhrd-home looking at Axon docs ...

[20:45] < mhrd-home> Axon.background is the replacement for Axon.LikeFile ?

[21:17] < j_baker> Sorry about that, got tied up doing some tech support (which sucks because I got hired as a programmer). Anyway, got to go catch the bus. See you guys later!

[21:51] < mhrd-home> apologies if this is going back over old territory: just noticed what looks like a race condition in Axon.background :

[21:51] < mhrd-home> there's nothing in the start() method to force it to postpone returning until the thread has finished starting up the scheduler

[21:52] < mhrd-home> without this there's the possiblity that a sequence such as:

[21:52] < mhrd-home> background().start()

[21:52] < mhrd-home> mycomponent().activate()

[21:52] < mhrd-home> might result in the mycomponent instance being activated in a different scheduler

[22:01] < vmlemon_> o.O http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2105253.ece#OTC-RSS&ATTR=News

[22:01] *** vmlemon_ wonders how she managed to achieve that

[22:06] < mhrd-home> hmm ... website stylesheet bug? : http://www.kamaelia.org/Docs/Axon/Axon.background.html ... numbered bullets missing in "Example Usage" section unless you disable stylesheets

[22:32] < mhrd-home> heh ... uk Advertising Standards Authority effectively being asked (imo) to rule on the probability of God's existence: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7818980.stm

[22:33] *** vmlemon_ looks

[22:33] < vmlemon_> I wonder how they'll manage to solve that

[22:34] < mhrd-home> I agree with the quote in that article: I don't envy the ASA either (irrespective of my personal views)

[22:39] < vmlemon_> Nice, Flash Player killed Firefox, and spammed the console with a tonne of "*** NSPlugin Wrapper *** WARNING:(../src/npw-wrapper.c:1840):invoke_NPP_Destroy: assertion failed: (rpc_method_invoke_possible(plugin->connection)" and "*** NSPlugin Wrapper *** ERROR: NPObject 0x1317daa0 is no longer valid!" errors :(

[22:40] < mhrd-home> flash regularly seems to break with Opera for me (and FF too sometimes) :-(

[22:40] *** vmlemon_ bets "Christian Voice" will probably try and buy influence, in order to sway the ASA's decision in their favour

[22:40] < mhrd-home> they've tried that before?

[22:40] < vmlemon_> Strange that it seems to work for ages, but then fails suddenly and randomly, when you least expect

[22:40] Reply: Hi, I'm a bot. I've been put here to answer faq's and log the channel.

[22:40] Reply: I've not really been configured yet, so I won't do much here yet :-)

[22:40] < vmlemon_> Not as far as I know

[22:41] < vmlemon_> Although I'm sure similar organisations of that type have tried in the past

[22:41] < vmlemon_> I can't say I'd ever heard of them, until reading that article, though

[22:42] *** mhrd-home needs an excuse to cycle into central london and see one of the ads

[22:50] *** vmlemon_ sees that the new Palm Pre, and Nova platform have been hyped like crazy for the last few hours on FriendFeed

[22:52] < mhrd-home> they need to get themselves a Steve Jobs of their own :-)

[22:53] < vmlemon_> Heh

[22:54] < vmlemon_> At least 3 threads on it, so far

[22:54] < vmlemon_> One has about 110 or so comments on it, already

[22:54] < vmlemon_> Naturally, there hasn't been as much as a peep from Nokia, regarding Symbian as of late

[22:55] < vmlemon_> (The last post on their site was from December 4th)

[22:57] < vmlemon_> Heh, 144 on the most active thread

[22:57] < vmlemon_> (http://friendfeed.com/e/8c77cdc8-b091-46df-7fa0-5b6740810a37/Palm-event-about-to-start-at-ces09-Note-to-self/)

[23:00] < mhrd-home> heh

[23:00] < mhrd-home> night

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