[12:07] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[12:08] < vmlemon_> Hi

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[13:01] < vmlemon_> Hi orphans

[13:03] < Lawouach> happy new year everyone

[13:15] < vmlemon_> Happy New Year to you, too

[13:19] < vmlemon_> Hah, http://entertainment.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1077411&cid=26281521

[13:42] < orphans> morning all, happy new year

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[14:56] < vmlemon_> Hi Davbo

[15:02] < Davbo> wow it's easy to get upvoted on reddit comments :)

[15:03] < Davbo> (context) http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/7mmjo/epic_fail_every_1st_generation_30_gigabyte_zune/7j8a

[15:11] < vmlemon_> Heh, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mona_Shaw

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[19:32] *** MS- has joined #kamaelia

[19:32] < MS-> Evening/ Happy New Year

[19:34] < vmlemon_> Happy New Year, MS-

[19:37] *** MS- is reorganising & tidying up /branches at the moment

[19:38] < MS-> Have *finally* eradicated my old Scratch branch - it's now a collection of smaller more focussed ones to get rid of

[19:43] < vmlemon_> Cool

[19:44] < vmlemon_> Haha, Facebook won't let you sign up with a date of birth in the year 1900

[19:44] < vmlemon_> (Gives "Please enter your real birthday.")

[19:45] < MS-> Really? How facist of them

[19:45] < MS-> (esp given there are people from pre 1900 still alive probably)

[19:45] < vmlemon_> IHeh

[19:45] < MS-> As odd as it sounds saying that :)

[19:45] < vmlemon_> *Heh

[19:46] < vmlemon_> They won't let you create an account with the full name "Someone Else" either

[19:46] < vmlemon_> (Gives "Our automated system will not approve this name. If you believe this is an error, please contact us.")

[19:47] *** vmlemon_ is setting up a dummy account for someone in the household who wants to try FB, but doesn't want to let them use his account

[19:48] < vmlemon_> Looks like they accept Google Groups e-mail addresses, how odd

[19:53] < MS-> It's useful having more than one account IMO - if only to test privacy settings really

[19:54] < vmlemon_> (http://groups.google.com/group/sharedserviceaccess/browse_thread/thread/5c3899af9588d539 is the confirmation e-mail from them)

[19:55] < vmlemon_> Apologies to people on Facebook who happen to be born in 1990, and named Amy Smith ;)

[19:56] < MS-> Oh that's a rather novel idea.

[19:57] < MS-> I like that - until people catch on that is :)

[19:57] < vmlemon_> Heh

[19:58] < vmlemon_> I set that list up to do stuff like this, ages ago ;)

[19:59] < MS-> It's a useful idea :)

[19:59] < vmlemon_> Yeah

[20:00] < vmlemon_> I originally intended it to be a gigantic spam trap, although it hasn't quite performed as expected

[20:00] < MS-> A bit like bugmenot, but slightly different

[20:00] < vmlemon_> (Despite me disabling the moderation functionality, I've had no spam at all, ironically)

[20:00] < vmlemon_> Funny you should mention BugMeNot, since I tried to look for a Facebook demo account there

[20:00] < vmlemon_> But they don't offer them

[20:03] < MS-> interesting

[20:03] < vmlemon_> Heh, I remember a friend showing me a website related to some pyramid scam investment, or something of that ilk, and they offered a "free eBook" to people who provided their e-mail address, but I never got a copy

[20:03] < vmlemon_> (Provided the list's e-mail address)

[20:03] < vmlemon_> Nice way to dodge the checks on sites that prevent sending to mailing lists - TrashMail ;)

[20:04] *** MS- nods

[20:04] < vmlemon_> Would be nice if they offered POP or IMAP access, or at least novel, but I can't see Google doing that

[20:05] *** vmlemon_ just hopes that Google doesn't catch on to what he's doing

[20:05] < vmlemon_> Although they do say that they're trying to "organise and store the world's information" or something like that ;)

[20:06] *** vmlemon_ wonders if that covers spam, by extension

[20:18] < MS-> Should do

[20:18] < MS-> Since having a large collection of spam means that you find it easier to detect more spam

[20:26] < vmlemon_> Um, wow... http://en.wikipedia.org.nyud.net:8080/wiki/Virgin_Killer_controversy

[20:27] *** vmlemon_ wonders why the Hell the "Internet Watch Foundation" (some crappy little UK-based pro-censorship "for the good of the children" charity) should have any say over what gets published on a US-run website

[20:29] < vmlemon_> I just wanted to read the actual "controversy" article text itself, and I get a stupid "we capitulated to the censors" type page

[20:32] < MS-> It doesn't look like they did view it as them having any say - ""the IWF doesn't talk to people outside of the UK they weren't able to appreciate what was going on."" - from the article you posted

[20:32] < MS-> IIRC the IWF create blacklists for people running filtering proxies

[20:32] < MS-> Primarily aimed at things like school systems

[20:32] < vmlemon_> Yeah

[20:32] < MS-> Whether that's what happens in practice is another matter

[20:34] *** vmlemon_ wonders where the overaggressive and obnoxious Orange Safeguard service got it's data from, yet it seemed to block mostly harmless stuff like Digg and Google Groups, yet also allowed content that some would consider problematic...

[20:35] < vmlemon_> (To add insult to injury, they enable it on all accounts by default :|)

[20:35] < vmlemon_> Doesn't look like 3 do any stupid filtering like that, though

[20:37] < vmlemon_> Not sure if it gets aggregated with data from other organisations (e.g. St. Bernard and the NetNanny and CyberPatrol folks), for what it's worth, although OpenDNS offers a DNS-level service based on some "industry standard" proprietary blacklist

[20:38] < vmlemon_> Kind of annoying that this nonsense causes problems for the folks who have no interest in viewing questionable content, for what it's worth

[20:39] *** vmlemon_ considers blacklists and whitelists fundamentally flawed

[20:42] < MS-> Like everything it's context

[20:42] < MS-> some things both work for

[20:42] < vmlemon_> Exactly

[20:44] < vmlemon_> I know they have good intentions (supposedly) with these things, but you know they're broken when they block otherwise legitimate sites like Digg, Google Groups and the Forum Nokia developer sub-sites, and end up breaking several others by preventing JavaScript and things from being loaded correctly

[20:45] < vmlemon_> They'd be more useful if they blocked toxic gunk like DoubleClick's "services" and AdBrite

[20:47] < vmlemon_> Hell, if I remember correctly, Orange's implementation blocked either Orkut or Plaxo, yet allowed people to use a rather hobbled version of the Facebook site

[20:48] < vmlemon_> I assume that it's a case of "one person's trash is another's treasure", and conflicting views about things

[20:48] < vmlemon_> I agree about context, though

[23:46] < MS-> OK, 2 branches left, to do, both will need some proper TLC. (One needs docs and the other needs maturing really, if to be merged at all

[23:47] < MS-> Will do the simpler one tomorrow now

[23:50] < MS-> After those are in a state I can be happy with, I'll be able to shift over to implementing the proper Kamaelia DSL that it's now clear we need :-)