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[13:49] < vmlemon_> Hi

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[14:44] < vmlemon_> ian_brasil_: Ping

[14:45] < ian_brasil_> ?

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[14:47] < vmlemon_> kamlogbot: dance

[14:47] Reply: does the macarena

[14:47] < vmlemon_> Did you get my ping?

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[14:53] < vmlemon_> Damn, got disconnected

[14:55] < vmlemon_> ian_brasil_: You work for Nokia, right?

[14:56] < vmlemon_> Not sure if you'd be the best person to ask, but do you know if they've released the changes to WebKit for the S40 port, out of interest?

[14:58] < ian_brasil_> yes

[14:58] < ian_brasil_> yes i work at nokia

[14:59] < ian_brasil_> i am not sure about the webkit changes

[14:59] < vmlemon_> Aah, thanks

[14:59] < ian_brasil_> i could probably find out if its important

[15:01] < vmlemon_> Was just curious, since there was much fanfare about a device launching that was supposedly based on S40 using WebKit for the browser

[15:01] *** vmlemon_ checks the WebKit site...

[15:10] < ian_brasil_> ha ha..just read this too http://madduck.net/blog/2008.12.05:symbian-ipv6-sip-no-testing-no-qa-no-surprise/

[15:11] < vmlemon_> That's about Symbian OS's half-baked IPv6 implementation that relies on proprietary extensions?

[15:11] < vmlemon_> (From what I've heard)

[15:12] < vmlemon_> I haven't actually used it, although it's nice to see that the IPv6 option is available

[15:13] < vmlemon_> Hmm, http://forumnokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/cc48f9a1-f5cf-447b-bdba-c4d41b3d05ce/Series_40_Platform_SDKs.html

[15:13] *** vmlemon_ assumes that they've either put the code in the SDK, or it's lumped in with the S60WebKit stuff, for what it's worth

[15:14] < vmlemon_> I'll probably end up grabbing a copy on Monday just to play with the emulator, they're usually always fun

[15:17] < vmlemon_> I wonder what's happening with the UIQ folks, once the Symbian Foundation properly opens...

[15:17] < vmlemon_> (There was talks of layoffs, if I remember correctly, not to mention that only 2 companies actually used it)

[15:17] < vmlemon_> *were

[15:22] < vmlemon_> kamlogbot: dance

[15:22] Reply: does the macarena

[15:23] < vmlemon_> Hah, http://friendfeed.com/e/e1fa1141-0f95-425b-b0ae-c4e1c6d93faf/Official-Gmail-Blog-Get-your-Gmail/

[15:27] < vmlemon_> ian_brasil_: Interesting stuff from MadDuck there

[15:34] < vmlemon_> http://madduck.net/blog/2008.06.28:shortcomings-of-the-nokia-e51/ sounds fun too ;)

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[15:58] < ian_brasil_> madduckis always interesting to read along mjg

[15:59] < ian_brasil_> along with mjg rather

[16:02] < vmlemon_> Mobile Web Server looks fun

[16:04] < vmlemon_> Shame it only runs on S60v3

[16:05] < ian_brasil_> right ..it needs to be on the N810

[16:07] < vmlemon_> Shoehorning Symbian OS onto the FreeRunner might be a fun future project, though ;)

[16:09] < ian_brasil_> you know about neodroid.com right..openmoko with android

[16:09] < vmlemon_> Heh

[16:09] < vmlemon_> I haven't seen that yet

[16:09] < vmlemon_> The Debian-Android "hack" looked interesting

[16:11] < ian_brasil_> debian rules ! ha ha

[16:12] < Lawouach> evening folks

[16:12] < vmlemon_> Hi Lawouach

[16:12] < Lawouach> hi mate

[16:12] < vmlemon_> They've already managed to get a Linux kernel running on the iPhone, so assuming they can keep it open, and Apple doesn't come out with another Phone product soon, S60 might be fair game ;)

[16:13] < vmlemon_> (Although it's a matter of writing a bootloader, first)

[16:13] < ian_brasil_> it is all down to the UI IMO

[16:14] < ian_brasil_> the iPhone has the jump there for sure and all linux companies are trying to hire UI guys

[16:15] *** vmlemon_ takes the tech over the packaging first, even if it means that the UI will be crappy/unpolished...

[16:15] < Lawouach> hmm

[16:15] < Lawouach> people buy what they see/hear

[16:16] < Lawouach> Go check for a stereo, people will happily change their speakers rather than their amp/cd player because that's where the sound comes from :)

[16:16] < vmlemon_> Hah

[16:16] < vmlemon_> Monster Cables, anyone? ;)

[16:16] < vmlemon_> Or the Denon gold-plated Ethernet cable?

[16:17] < ian_brasil_> yes..are you a mobile device maker == nokia or a software company == apple..i am sure nokia would llike to be and are trying to be both

[16:18] < ian_brasil_> well software company == apple is not really true but you get my point

[16:18] < vmlemon_> There's always the abortion that was the N-Gage "game deck" that really couldn't decided if it was a game console with phone functionality, or a phone with game console functionality, and did both poorly

[16:18] < vmlemon_> *decide

[16:18] < vmlemon_> Damn typos

[16:19] < vmlemon_> True

[16:19] < ian_brasil_> this device convergence did not have me convinced until my sister got an iPhone

[16:20] < ian_brasil_> and the first thing she said is that it has an iPod built in

[16:20] < vmlemon_> Heh

[16:20] < vmlemon_> AKA, "It has a music playing application"?

[16:21] < vmlemon_> Although it's all about the marketing/perception...

[16:21] < vmlemon_> Probably depends on the user's mindset, too

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[16:23] < ian_brasil_> i like the unix philosophy..'do one thing and do it well' but am probably too much of a luddite to be a reliable judge

[16:24] < vmlemon_> Meh, lost connectivity

[16:25] < vmlemon_> I don't know why, but "A phone with an iPod" makes me think of a mobile phone with an iPod-brand music player Sellotaped to it

[16:25] < vmlemon_> as opposed to a phone with an iPod-brand music player application/function on it

[16:26] < ian_brasil_> spose it depends on whether you associate the word iPod with the device or what it does

[16:26] < vmlemon_> Good point

[16:26] < ian_brasil_> my sister was the latter for sure

[16:27] < ian_brasil_> i imagine marketing types have spent many millions trying to work that out mind you

[16:27] < vmlemon_> I know a lot of people have come to think "iPod != Music player/"MP3 Player""

[16:28] < vmlemon_> Even though that's fundamentally what it is

[16:29] < ian_brasil_> what do they think it is then?

[16:29] < vmlemon_> "An iPod"

[16:29] < vmlemon_> Sounds stupid, but I hear the two being separated a lot in the Luddite/non-tech crowd, and around kids that discuss the things with peers...

[16:30] < vmlemon_> For what it's worth

[16:30] < vmlemon_> I don't make a logical distinction though

[16:30] < ian_brasil_> Mmm

[16:31] < vmlemon_> I remember arguing with someone who brought into it, a while ago

[16:31] < vmlemon_> "I want either an iPod or an MP3 player" (sic)...

[16:32] < ian_brasil_> thats interesting

[16:32] < vmlemon_> I often wonder about the marketing types who throw around the term "music phone" too

[16:32] < Patrick`> it's like calling it broadband or cable

[16:32] < vmlemon_> Since a lot of companies happen to make phones with audio file playing functionality

[16:33] < vmlemon_> Heh

[16:33] < vmlemon_> Exactly

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[16:33] < vmlemon_> Hi Davbo

[16:35] < Davbo> Hey all

[16:36] < ian_brasil_> marketing types throw all sorts of words around in the hope that something sticks IMO

[16:36] < ian_brasil_> cloud computing is the latest beauty

[16:36] < vmlemon_> Hmm, http://friendfeed.com/e/f8bf7dd4-29a1-498b-9228-291eee1cfafb/Organic-French-Chickens-Join-the-List-of-Products/

[16:36] < vmlemon_> Doesn't sound too good

[16:36] < ian_brasil_> i like RMS take on this AKA 'run, its a trap'

[16:37] < vmlemon_> I'm not a fan of that buzzword

[16:41] < Lawouach> damn :(

[16:42] < Lawouach> well the question is, is RMS the most authoritative person in that domain?

[16:42] < vmlemon_> Good point

[16:47] < ian_brasil_> probably not but he has an annoying habit of occasional flashes of insight amongst all the stuff he rants on about

[16:48] < Lawouach> true

[16:48] < vmlemon_> I wonder if he actually produces code for the FSF's projects, these days...

[16:48] < Lawouach> and yeah it's a buzzword :)

[16:48] < vmlemon_> It seems like they're just on an anti-Closed Source Software and DRM crusade

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[18:15] < BleSS> hi! I've seen that Kamaelia was built to developing concurrent software

[18:15] < Lawouach> indeed

[18:15] < vmlemon_> Hi BleSS

[18:16] < BleSS> would be being usefull since Py 2.6 with the multiprocessing package?

[18:16] < BleSS> http://docs.python.org/3.0/whatsnew/2.6.html#pep-0371

[18:17] < BleSS> I mean that it was created when python had not a module as that

[18:17] < vmlemon_> Hah, http://www.emmaclarke.com/fun/mind-the-gap/spoof-london-underground-announcements#

[18:17] < Lawouach> BleSS: I'm not sure I'm following you

[18:20] < BleSS> Lawouach: ok, I'm supposed that with that new module it could be developed too the same concurrent software

[18:21] < Lawouach> Perhaps. I haven't really looked at the multiprocessing package

[18:21] < Lawouach> I have no idea what it can do nor how it works

[18:21] < BleSS> ok, thanks

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[18:47] < davbop> humm

[18:47] < davbop> damn

[18:47] < davbop> you just read back the logs

[18:47] < davbop> That BleSS guy should know it's relatively trivial to work with the python 2.6 multiprocessing stuff & kamaelia

[18:48] < davbop> I was looking at rewriting our multicore stuff to adopt it but broke my computer with multiple python installs :-)

[18:48] < davbop> it's on my RTM though

[18:49] *** davbop goes to the pub

[18:49] < vmlemon_> Hah, http://www.thementalspa.co.uk/Site_2/Podcast/Entries/2008/8/22_%E2%80%9CFor_God%E2%80%99s_Sake_-_has_anyone_got_a_puncture_kit%E2%80%9D.html

[18:49] < davbop> cya later chaps

[18:49] < vmlemon_> See you davbop

[20:27] < vmlemon_> Aha! Someone in #webkit saves the day and gives me the elusive URL for the S40 WebKit project on Nokia Open Source

[20:27] < vmlemon_> (http://opensource.nokia.com/projects/s40webkit/index.html)

[20:28] < vmlemon_> Heh, fastmalloc looks like really gnarly code

[20:28] < vmlemon_> I've never seen so many "# endif"s immediately following each other, and such large comment blocks

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