[06:04] < Lawouach> morning

[06:07] < Rigolo> good morning :-)

[06:08] < Lawouach> hi Rigolo

[06:09] < Rigolo> how asre things over there?

[06:10] < Rigolo> here we got some snow/white slush/wet/stuff on the ground :-)

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[09:43] < vmlemon_> Hi

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[11:26] < vmlemon_> kamlogbot: dance

[11:26] Reply: does the macarena

[11:26] < aa_> hi guys

[11:27] < vmlemon_> Hi aa_

[11:27] < aa_> vmlemon_: I must share my latest project with you!

[11:27] < vmlemon_> Ooh, just got a phantom mailing list switchover from the FOSWiki folks

[11:27] < aa_> so far it only has a name :) it's a command server for handling long-running and painful tasks

[11:27] < vmlemon_> Cool

[11:27] < aa_> it's called DYCOM "Dump your crap on me"

[11:27] < vmlemon_> Hah

[11:28] *** vmlemon_ thought it was going to be called anaestheticd ;)

[11:28] < aa_> hah :P

[11:29] < aa_> vmlemon_: to be honest I feel bad for the twiki people

[11:30] < vmlemon_> ("You have been unsubscribed from the Nextwiki-announce mailing list" -> "Welcome to the "Foswiki-announce" mailing list")

[11:31] < vmlemon_> Although I think they said they were going to do that for continuity

[11:35] < aa_> vmlemon_: what happened to the original "let's make money" guys?

[11:36] < vmlemon_> They stuck around and hoped that the others wouldn't pick up their ball and go elsewhere?

[11:37] < aa_> hmm, but are they going to be successful. I can't imagine actually paying for a wiki.

[11:37] < vmlemon_> Hmm, aren't the Atlassian folks flogging a pay-for wiki succesfully?

[11:37] < vmlemon_> *successfully

[11:38] < vmlemon_> Hah, http://klik.atekon.de/presentation/img52.html

[11:38] < vmlemon_> (At least they're honest about it ;))

[11:39] < vmlemon_> I don't see why someone would want to pay for wikiware either, unless it's Extremely Good®

[11:41] < aa_> well, I strongly believe that technology has not reached a level at which a wiki can be "good"

[11:44] < aa_> wow, klik talks a cool talk

[11:44] < aa_> terrible name thoughy

[11:44] < vmlemon_> "Klik, Klik, Krash!" comes to mind ;)

[11:46] < vmlemon_> "OK, I'm too stupid for compiling - and I don't want to"

[11:47] < aa_> ahaha

[11:47] < aa_> I am thinking "Klick Klick Klick *Boom*"

[11:49] < vmlemon_> Way to go, SchlundTech's *DNS servers* have been DDoSed

[11:49] *** vmlemon_ is now officially puzzled

[11:56] < vmlemon_> Anyone had snow?

[11:57] < vmlemon_> Hah, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7740593.stm

[11:57] < vmlemon_> Yay for our extremely competent government ;)

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[12:25] < vmlemon_> Hi Uraeus

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[12:59] < vmlemon_> Hi SamHasler

[12:59] < SamHasler> hi

[14:44] < SamHasler> yay, a second person upvoted my Kamilia answer on Stack Overflow http://stackoverflow.com/questions/79999/what-parallel-programming-model-do-you-recommend-today-to-take-advantage-of-the#89155

[14:45] < SamHasler> ^Kamilia^Kamaelia (could you have made it harder to spell?)

[14:46] < vmlemon_> Hah

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[14:54] *** vmlemon_ thought that said "Kamilla" for a second for some reason

[15:18] < aa_> SamHasler: the first one was me :)

[15:18] < SamHasler> aa_, ta :)

[15:19] < aa_> oh no wait, that was another kamaelia answer I upvoted

[15:19] < aa_> the third one was me :)

[15:19] < SamHasler> I posted the same answer to two questions

[15:19] < aa_> did you do one in the last few days?

[15:19] < SamHasler> no

[15:20] < aa_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/302615/embedded-web-server-in-python

[15:23] < aa_> SamHasler: nearly 3K!

[15:23] *** SamHasler is looking forward to closing questions >:)

[15:24] < SamHasler> my other Kamaelia answer was: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/121674/multi-core-and-concurrency-languages-libraries-and-development-techniques#136902

[15:25] < aa_> hmm, sorry my wrapping is broken on the irc client, otherwise I would upvote that one too

[15:26] < SamHasler> http://tinyurl.com/5wfk4f

[15:26] < aa_> ok, now you only need 2 more upvotes :)

[15:27] < vmlemon_> o.O http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/09/13/colorado-newspaper-twitters-three-year-olds-funeral/

[15:27] < aa_> SamHasler: oh look you just went through 3K ;)

[15:28] < SamHasler> did you just vote up my two lowest answers?

[15:28] < aa_> well, the -1 didn't deserve it

[15:29] < aa_> SamHasler: I can remove them if you like

[15:29] < SamHasler> yeah, it got that before I edited it to it's current state, thanks

[15:29] < aa_> and I picked another at random, but the answer was at least worth +1 :)

[15:30] < SamHasler> fair enough

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[19:48] < vmlemon_> Hah, http://twitter.com/kevinscold

[20:20] < Rigolo> good evening lemon ... still working your way through GPRS heaven :-)

[20:21] < vmlemon_> Heh

[20:23] < Rigolo> I read that in order to get ADSL in the UK you do need to have a BT line subscription. The DSL provider can arrange all that and only give you DSL only

[20:23] < Rigolo> is that correct?

[20:25] < vmlemon_> There are companies that'll sell you an "LLU" (non-BT/Local Loop Unbundled) phoneline if I remember correctly, although it's only available in a handful of areas in the country

[20:25] < vmlemon_> (Since new equipment has to be installed in the telephone exchange)

[20:25] < vmlemon_> But no-one will sell you ADSL on it's own without a phone line as far as I know

[20:25] < Rigolo> did you check your area? I'm looking now at thinkbroadband.com

[20:26] < Rigolo> that used to be adslguide.com

[20:26] < vmlemon_> Thanks

[20:26] < vmlemon_> Going to check now

[20:26] *** vmlemon_ tries a speed test too, just for a laugh

[20:27] < vmlemon_> (I'm using UMTS at the moment, so the results could be interesting)

[20:27] < Rigolo> don't do that at the same time ... might influence your speeds too much :-)

[20:28] < vmlemon_> Argh, the one I looked at insists on me having Adobe Flash Player installed

[20:29] < Rigolo> just download a 100MB file from here: http://download.xs4all.nl/test/100M.txt :-)

[20:30] < Rigolo> althought that might take you 3 years or so :-)

[20:30] < Rigolo> but try this availability checker they have on thinkbroadband .. and see what you can get

[20:30] < Rigolo> everything is better than this I guess

[20:31] < vmlemon_> Trying their checker now

[20:31] < vmlemon_> Looks like it only covers BT services

[20:32] < Rigolo> well .. BT Wholesale ..

[20:32] < vmlemon_> Yup

[20:32] < Rigolo> and? is that available .. because if so then you do not need a subscription with BT, only with the ISP

[20:33] < vmlemon_> Having to use the postcode checker, since I don't have a fixed-line phone

[20:33] < vmlemon_> I know we can get ADSL though

[20:33] < Rigolo> that is standard here in .nl .. most ISP will just arange everything with KPN for you and give you a DSL only line with no voice service from KPN on it

[20:33] < vmlemon_> WTF? "Sorry this postcode has not been recognised by this checker, this could be because this is a new address with a new postcode that has not yet included in our database or the postcode does not align to an exchange area. Therefore, can you please try again using your telephone number or address."

[20:34] < Rigolo> mmm are you sure you really live there :-)

[20:34] < vmlemon_> Heh, "Welcome to the Broadband ADSL checker. This will provide a provisional check of your ability to receive reliable Broadband services." - What if I want unreliable broadband services? ;)

[20:34] < vmlemon_> Certainly

[20:34] *** vmlemon_ tries the address checker instead

[20:35] < vmlemon_> Haha

[20:35] < vmlemon_> BT sucks rocks

[20:35] < Rigolo> because?

[20:35] < vmlemon_> "Thank you for your interest in ADSL broadband. This service is currently unavailable in your area; however your exchange would be suitable for our Exchange Activate approach, a collaborative solution created specifically for small or remote communities right across the UK."

[20:36] < vmlemon_> How do they work that out? We've had ADSL services from BT themselves at our address previously

[20:36] *** vmlemon_ suspects out-of-date info in their databases

[20:37] < Rigolo> or your were the last person with DLS and when you stopped they removed all the equipment :-)

[20:37] < vmlemon_> Heh

[20:37] < vmlemon_> I'm certain that others in Boroughbridge have ADSL, and I know a few neighbours on the same street have it

[20:38] < vmlemon_> I bet I'll get a different answer from their main site

[20:39] < Rigolo> okee ... does BT offer DSL only? so no voice?

[20:39] < vmlemon_> BT say that you have to take out voice services to get it, although I don't know if they'll let you use ADSL on a line configured for "incoming calls only"

[20:40] < Rigolo> but if you can get ADSL from BT, then you must be able to get it from other ISP also right?

[20:41] < vmlemon_> Exactly

[20:41] < vmlemon_> Just that we have no option on who supplies the underlying phone service

[20:41] < vmlemon_> Although if you were to go to London or an area around there, there's plenty of choice :(

[20:42] *** vmlemon_ notes "Not all of the UK is London"...

[20:43] < Rigolo> well ... it makes sense that BT is providing the "copper" to your house. But your are sure you need to have a voice service product from BT before you can get DSL from an other ISP?

[20:43] < Rigolo> sounds not correct to me

[20:43] *** vmlemon_ tries our old pre-termination phone number

[20:44] < vmlemon_> "Your exchange has broadband."

[20:44] < vmlemon_> As I suspected

[20:44] < vmlemon_> WTF? "However, despite an engineer's visit to your premises it has been proved not possible for your telephone line to support broadband service. Please accept our apologies."

[20:45] < vmlemon_> Unless they're weaselling out of trying to say that "you can get ADSL, but it won't be at the speed we advertise"

[20:45] < Rigolo> and what other ISP service your area?

[20:46] < vmlemon_> Good question, there's a whole list of ISPs that's too big to post that'll give you ADSL services

[20:47] < vmlemon_> but from what I can tell, BT aren't willing to give you "just a line for ADSL" without voice service

[20:47] < vmlemon_> and no-one else offers copper line/last mile access

[20:47] *** vmlemon_ sees if Be or Sky have done something here

[20:48] < Rigolo> but you should not ask BT for that line ... you should ask your ISP for DSL only and THEY can get a DSL only line from BT

[20:48] < vmlemon_> You can supposedly get voice service from others on a BT line though, but I've never enquired about it

[20:48] < vmlemon_> Interesting

[20:49] < Rigolo> here in .nl I do not have a KPN subscription at the moment (using Cable for voice, data and TV)

[20:49] < vmlemon_> Aah, seems lucky that you get cable

[20:50] < Rigolo> but if I want I can call any DSL ISP and ask them for a DSL connection. First they ask for my KPN telephone number but if I do not have one they will just order a DSL on "raw copper" from KPN

[20:51] < Rigolo> and they will only cost me like 15 Euro per month (10 Pounds? what is the rate these days)

[20:51] < vmlemon_> Probably about that

[20:51] < vmlemon_> "Sky is currently unable to transfer customers to our Broadband if they are with a provider who has taken over both the telephone line and broadband and moved them to their own LLU (fully unbundled) network"

[20:52] < vmlemon_> Trying the Sky post code checker, since they have an unbundled line in some areas

[20:52] < vmlemon_> "BT does not have an entry for the postcode you have entered. Please contact BT on 0808 100 5152 to register your postcode in their database."

[20:52] < vmlemon_> "As you don't yet have an active BT telephone line we have based this check on your postcode. "

[20:53] < Rigolo> and that is what you want ... a fully unbundled line ...

[20:53] < Rigolo> mmm you really sure you live in the UK :-)

[20:53] < vmlemon_> Heh, yes

[20:55] < vmlemon_> Grr, I need to find another local postcode

[20:56] *** vmlemon_ sees if SkyTalk is available

[20:56] < Rigolo> you mean: I need to move to a different house/town/county/country/continent ?

[20:57] < vmlemon_> No

[20:57] < vmlemon_> I need to know another postcode belonging to someone/something else in the town, as I know for a fact that ADSL services are available

[20:58] < Rigolo> well ... do the check using your neighbours address/phonenumber

[20:59] < vmlemon_> Perfect, the 3rd result on Google gave me YO51 9HS in the synopsis for a PDF

[21:00] < vmlemon_> Hmm, "3. Organise a BT phone line Call BT on 0800 800 150 to get a phone line installed, or order online at www.bt.com/newline. If you need to order a new line or reactivate an existing one ask for BT’s Weekend Plan Option 1."

[21:01] < Rigolo> well... those ISP you do not want ...

[21:01] *** vmlemon_ wonders if BT have erased his crappy excuse of a town off their map ;)

[21:03] < vmlemon_> http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/MYBOR

[21:03] < vmlemon_> Says my options are BT, BT or even BT!

[21:03] < vmlemon_> :/

[21:04] < vmlemon_> And even then, ADSL Max, erm Min ("Up to 8Mbps") syncs at 2.2Mbps with the exchange if I remember correctly

[21:05] < vmlemon_> "This exchange has BT Wholesale as the sole provider of broadband services." :(

[21:05] *** vmlemon_ is a Sad Panda

[21:05] < vmlemon_> Heh, I have to wait until the end of 2010 to get an "upgrade" to their already obsolete "21st Century Network" here too

[21:07] < vmlemon_> Interesting, http://www.samknows.com/broadband/faq.php?id=14

[21:08] < Rigolo> but they only show BT in your local exchange?

[21:09] < vmlemon_> Precisely, since only BT has equipment installed in the local exchange

[21:10] < vmlemon_> Hence the Market 1 classification by OFCOM

[21:12] < vmlemon_> (i.e. They only have one incumbent provider of copper network access, and everyone else uses the BT Wholesale network to connect)

[21:15] < Rigolo> okee ...

[21:15] < Rigolo> and Cable?

[21:23] < vmlemon_> The sole monopoly provider of cable services (Virgin Media) doesn't offer it here

[21:23] < vmlemon_> Gratingly, they offer it in a town about 30 miles or so away

[21:24] < vmlemon_> (They ironically scaled back the national network when they were Cable & Wireless, if I remember correctly)

[21:24] < vmlemon_> (Which was some time in the mid-late '90s)

[21:25] < vmlemon_> All thanks to stupid legislation that was passed decades ago (before I was born)

[21:28] < vmlemon_> Yum, Nutella on toast

[21:35] *** Rigolo needs to go to bed ...

[21:35] < Rigolo> too bad you have no cable ...

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[21:35] < Rigolo> abd he is back :-)

[21:35] < Rigolo> and also :-)

[21:36] < Rigolo> let me guess .... Nutella on your phone :-)

[21:36] *** Rigolo has to leave .. later

[21:37] < vmlemon_> Damn, lost connectivity

[21:37] < vmlemon_> Did you get my last 4 or so posts?

[21:37] < vmlemon_> No

[21:37] < vmlemon_> See you

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