[06:23] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[07:08] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[07:12] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[07:26] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[07:58] < elvum> MS-: of legendary quality? ;-)

[10:39] *** SamHasler has joined #kamaelia

[10:43] < MS-> elvum: scale of qualites

[10:45] < MS-> Mythological, Legendary, Historical, Revolutionary, Contemporaneous, Futuristic, ...

[10:53] *** Uraeus has joined #kamaelia

[10:59] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[14:56] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[17:01] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[17:27] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[17:29] < vmlemon_> Hi

[17:48] < Davbo> MS-: you been to a BarCamp before?

[17:50] < Davbo> next weekend the one in sheffield is running, it's fri sat and sunday! didn't expect them to be such long "unconferences"

[17:58] < MS-> Davbo_Yep, been to bar camps, Also been to two foo camps

[17:59] < MS-> Well worth going

[17:59] < MS-> I'm going to bar camp liverpool in december

[17:59] < MS-> 6th 7th

[18:00] < Davbo> cool

[18:01] < MS-> unconferences are a concept that sound like they can't work

[18:02] < MS-> and often work better than you might expect

[18:02] < MS-> Two points

[18:02] < MS-> if you've never been to bar camp before, you have to present (or should, you'll get more out of it)

[18:02] < MS-> secondly "present" means run a session and discussions often work best IMO

[18:03] < vmlemon_> Out of interest, what happens if you can't think of anything to talk about for your initial presentation?

[18:03] < MS-> such as "DSL's - all the questions you never expected, tell me the answers"

[18:04] < MS-> vmlemon_: You don't have to present really it's really about participating or doing something

[18:04] < vmlemon_> Aah

[18:04] < Davbo> Heh, dunno if I'd have much to talk about

[18:04] < MS-> The best source is to pick something you're interested or passionate about

[18:04] < MS-> There's been sessions on juggling at foo camps in the past for example,

[18:05] < MS-> Others on sci fi, and stuff

[18:05] < MS-> Other ones that worked was someone sitting down saying "tell me all your experiences of domain specific languages"

[18:05] < MS-> "werewolf" is also a common activity

[18:06] < MS-> Another good one you can do is "my last project"

[18:06] < Davbo> werewolf?

[18:06] < MS-> where you invite everyone to talk for 5 minutes tops to talk about their last project (or last one they'd find interesting)

[18:06] < MS-> vmlemon_: People would probably be interested in how you use a phone to connect to IRC for example

[18:07] < MS-> Davbo: http://www.eblong.com/zarf/werewolf.html

[18:07] < vmlemon_> "My last project had no contributors and little working code" count for anything? ;)

[18:07] < MS-> Oddly addictive

[18:07] < Davbo> ah I've heard of this

[18:07] < MS-> vmlemon_: yes, it does

[18:08] < MS-> "bitch about your last project" - "share why projects go wrong, frustrating"

[18:08] < vmlemon_> There's always a recursive unconference (where presumably you talk about giving talks at unconferences about unconferences and so on) ;)

[18:08] < MS-> yep

[18:08] < MS-> The idea comes from an idea called "open space technology" by Harrison Own

[18:08] < MS-> Owen

[18:08] < vmlemon_> Although that doesn't seem very useful

[18:09] < MS-> He was an anthropologist and ran a conference once.

[18:09] < MS-> Everyone said they liked it, but found the coffee breaks really useful

[18:09] < MS-> and he set out to make the rest of the conference like the coffee breaks

[18:09] < vmlemon_> The coffee break - now with less coffee!

[18:10] < MS-> and being an anthropologist put a lot of thought into it and came up with something simple

[18:10] < MS-> basically it works in all sorts of situations because everyone who wants to say something gets the opportunity to do so

[18:11] < MS-> so it's been used for all sorts of things, from foo/bar camps most recently

[18:11] < MS-> through resolving industrial disputes i

[18:12] < vmlemon_> Heh, actually, it finally got 1 new registrant on the project site although he only registered to e-mail me through the site contact form about something else

[18:12] < MS-> (apparently at Boeing, with 300-500 people, when there were going to be layoffs once

[18:12] < vmlemon_> rather oddly

[18:12] < MS-> :)

[18:13] < MS-> Powerpoint karaoke is great if you have someone there who can carry it off as compere

[18:13] < MS-> It's utterly bizarre

[18:13] < vmlemon_> o.O

[18:13] < MS-> but if you've seen the "chicken" presentation, that was the original powerpoint karaoke

[18:14] < MS-> The idea is you present a presentation deck *which you've never seen before*

[18:14] < MS-> And the idea is that you're presenting to a bunch of VCs for capital on the idea in the presentation and your livelihood depends on it

[18:15] < Davbo> Hah, awesome

[18:15] < MS-> which irrelevant of the views you have on VCs etc, it's hugely fun

[18:15] < MS-> because you have two options - provide a sensible presentation or one where you try and break the presenter

[18:15] < MS-> or find a bizarre one which is real

[18:16] < MS-> and cut out key slides that make the presentation make sense

[18:16] < MS-> :)

[18:20] < Davbo> I checked out Knuth's Art of Computer Programming vol.1 from the library the other day

[18:20] *** vmlemon_ was just pondering trying to extend kamlogbot with Twitter support...

[18:20] < Davbo> it's surprisingly relevant

[18:21] < Davbo> considering how old it is

[18:21] < vmlemon_> (Would spit out stuff said in the channel to Twitter, and spit stuff received from Twitter into the channel, assuming it's addressed to the bot)

[18:21] < Davbo> I guess most of the algorithms it covers are heavy on maths

[18:22] < MS-> vmlemon_: That should be fairly simple to hack in for what it's worth

[18:22] < Davbo> the bot could have it's own account, then we could all post to it from IRC

[18:23] < vmlemon_> A ghetto IRC gateway ;)

[18:23] < vmlemon_> (Slightly limited, but good for trying to IRC on restrictive networks)

[18:24] *** MS- nods

[18:24] < vmlemon_> I don't know how quickly you'd hit their daily transaction limit on the API though

[18:25] < MS-> I'd personally suggest that it only tweats stuff explicitly said to it on channel

[18:26] < vmlemon_> Good point

[18:26] < Davbo> then say its current status whenever someone connects

[18:27] < Davbo> then you could leave notes

[18:27] < vmlemon_> I can imagine that kamlogbot would "meow" instead of "tweet" for some reason, but there you go ;)

[18:27] < vmlemon_> "To get started, read about out all the different ways you can get data out of Twitter."

[18:28] *** vmlemon_ assumes that "kick it and tilt it slightly" is not one of the ways to dispense data

[18:28] < Davbo> meow, or purr? that's the question

[18:28] < vmlemon_> Aye

[18:29] < Davbo> both of them sound like irritating web 2.0 sites, although meow has too many vowels ;)

[18:29] < vmlemon_> Mow?

[18:29] < Davbo> hehe

[18:29] < vmlemon_> Twitr

[18:29] < vmlemon_> (New Motorola phone? ;))

[18:31] < vmlemon_> They forgot the MGIC WRD - "Beta!"

[18:33] < MS-> meowr ?

[18:33] < MS-> :)

[18:33] < vmlemon_> Yay!

[18:34] < vmlemon_> < YellowStar>Now in Perpetual Beta!< /YellowStar>

[18:35] < vmlemon_> http://www.h-master.net/web2.0/image/meowrBETA.png

[18:36] < Davbo> Hah! :-D

[18:39] < vmlemon_> Purra?

[18:44] < Davbo> MS-: I've ended up taking out a book on the fourier transform

[18:45] < Davbo> it really annoys me when i use something but don't understand how it works (fast fourier transform)

[18:46] < MS-> fair enough

[18:47] < MS-> it works through the wonders of mystical pixie exploitation

[18:47] < Davbo> just want to get a rough idea, i'll leave the complexities to the engineering programmers.

[18:48] < Davbo> if the FFT goes wrong for me I'll get a dodgy animation, if it goes wrong for them a bridge will collapse or something

[18:48] < Davbo> ;-)

[18:48] < Davbo> http://barcampsheffield.net/ - sponsored by Engine Yard, maybe I should do a talk on Django

[18:49] < MS-> or kamaelia

[18:49] < MS-> < /broken record>

[18:49] < vmlemon_> Back in a bit

[18:52] *** MS- tired

[18:52] < MS-> night all

[18:52] *** MS- has parted #kamaelia

[18:52] *** Davbo would love to do a talk on Kamaelia

[18:52] < Davbo> I'll look at that for the next time this rolls round

[18:52] < Davbo> rather than bodge it

[18:52] *** Davbo is shy ;-)

[18:59] < Davbo> that wouldn't annoy the Rails nuts though MS :P

[19:13] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[19:15] < vmlemon_> Hi again

[19:15] < Davbo> Hey vmlemon_

[19:16] < vmlemon_> What luck, I went to the Chinese to try and get something to eat, and it was shut today of all days...

[19:16] < vmlemon_> (It's usually always open after 5pm)

[19:18] < Davbo> weird, although my local Chinese closes on a tuesday all day, rather randomly

[19:19] < vmlemon_> Turns out that the manager/owner/probably the only other cook was at his son's graduation event (so the notice on the door claimed)

[19:20] < Davbo> ah

[19:21] < Davbo> Yeah, when i walked past the city hall today there were lots of people in their in their gowns, perhaps he was there

[19:22] < vmlemon_> Meh, OpenLINA seems like a really active project right now - last release was in July (0.72.01)

[19:23] < vmlemon_> Still, there's a FriendFeed group now, and their forum actually has spam on it (which amazingly, it was free of since the forums opened)

[19:25] < Davbo> "Meh, OpenLINA seems like a really active project right now" Why the Meh?

[19:25] < vmlemon_> Implied sarcasm ;)

[19:25] < Davbo> ah

[19:25] < vmlemon_> Although they do seem to be working on it still

[19:26] < vmlemon_> Still, .01 more than earlier in July

[19:26] < vmlemon_> (Was 0.72) ;)

[19:30] *** vmlemon_ looks for a way to disable those annoying blinking taskbar buttons on KDE

[19:31] < Davbo> what buttons? i don't get those (KDE4)

[19:31] < vmlemon_> It's on KDE 3.5.x

[19:31] < Davbo> i mean, i get the normal buttons but none blinking

[19:32] < Davbo> although all my taskbar buttons are sort of broken lol

[19:32] < vmlemon_> (Items in the "taskbar" applet flash if they're requesting attention or to confirm something)

[19:32] < vmlemon_> Pretty annoying after I start a PPP connection

[19:32] < vmlemon_> "Yes, I know it's connected, damn it, don't keep the KPPP item highlighted and flashing forever until I've brought KPPP to the foreground" comes to mind

[19:33] < vmlemon_> Perfect

[19:33] < vmlemon_> An option to disable all taskbar notifications

[20:07] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[20:54] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[20:57] < Davbo> Coincidence Lawouach! I'm just sorting out my Wordpress too

[20:58] < Davbo> Trying to find my backup files...

[21:00] < vmlemon_> Hah, "Having briefly speculated on the cost of everything and gotten reliable estimates from the market, Google has discovered that the value of its vast stockpiles of nothing has gone through the roof."

[21:23] < Davbo> has Konsole always had bookmarks?

[21:23] < Davbo> i don't pay much attention to my terminal programs really

[21:24] *** Davbo wonders if it will bookmark an ssh

[21:25] < vmlemon_> I can't say I've ever had a use for them

[21:25] < vmlemon_> It just lets you "bookmark" a directory

[21:26] < vmlemon_> It doesn't affect commands, sadly

[21:26] < Davbo> ah

[21:26] < vmlemon_> It appears that using one just changes to the bookmarked directory, after I just tested

[21:26] < Davbo> i thought i'd be able to bookmark say, vim on a remote ssh

[21:26] < Davbo> that would be awesome

[21:26] < vmlemon_> Same here

[21:26] < vmlemon_> Although you can create custom session types

[21:27] < Davbo> could put that up as a feature request or something

[21:27] < vmlemon_> (e.g. one that always executes a command to connect to a certain server via SSH)

[21:27] < vmlemon_> if it counts

[21:28] < vmlemon_> Anyone else using FriendFeed?

[21:29] < vmlemon_> (Just wondering if anyone uses the XMPP/Google Talk integration feature)

[21:31] < vmlemon_> It seems useful, although it occasionally seems like it goes mad and passes in the same items about 3 times in succession every 15 minutes or so

[21:31] < vmlemon_> regardless of how old they are

[21:43] < tdobson> ping *

[21:43] < vmlemon_> pong tdobson

[21:43] < tdobson> I have a guy who is intersted in like getting involved with kamaelia and stuff but he is a little bit shy...

[21:44] < tdobson> if you could be friendly and chat to him when i invitie him in hear it'd be great :)

[21:44] < vmlemon_> Cool

[21:45] *** tehmarz has joined #kamaelia

[21:45] < vmlemon_> Hi tehmarz

[21:45] < tehmarz> Hey

[21:45] < tdobson> hi tehmarz :)

[21:46] < tdobson> tehmarz: i don't really know masses about kamaelia though I have sat through one presentation on the subject.. I'm told its greeat for making modular stuff

[21:46] *** tdobson is very vague because he is pretending he understands the fine details which he doesnt :P

[21:47] < vmlemon_> Aah

[21:47] < tdobson> vmlemon_: what's on the todo list for the next release?

[21:47] < vmlemon_> If you're unsure, just ask

[21:47] < vmlemon_> Hmm, quite a lot is going into it

[21:47] < Davbo> tdobson: http://groups.google.com/group/kamaelia/browse_frm/thread/680a5bae3369f832?pli=1

[21:47] < vmlemon_> although I don't have the list handy

[21:48] < tehmarz> Hmm. I'm a good Python programmer, if you need a hand... I'm looking for a project to do in my spare time. xP

[21:49] *** vmlemon_ isn't a very good Python programmer, but managed to make his first Kamaelia contribution (should be coming to a 0.7.0 near you, as far as I know, soon)

[21:49] < Davbo> I'd suggest you take a look at the things people have in various branches, and sketches http://code.google.com/p/kamaelia/

[21:50] < Davbo> there's a lot of documentation on the site to get you started

[21:50] < tdobson> Davbo: looks interesting (0.70 plan)

[21:50] < tdobson> btw is there meant to be placeholder text on the homepage? :-/

[21:51] < vmlemon_> Aah

[21:51] < tdobson> (under source &svn)

[21:51] < vmlemon_> I mentioned the Lipsum several times

[21:51] < tdobson> hehe :) just checking

[21:51] < vmlemon_> I don't think anyone's got rounds to fixing it yet though

[21:51] < tehmarz> The About page has placeholders on the left, too.

[21:51] < tdobson> evidently! ;)

[21:51] < vmlemon_> (Need Round Tuits) ;)

[21:52] < vmlemon_> *round

[21:53] < Davbo> the site is new, so still getting worked on..there's a lot of stuff out there though

[21:53] < vmlemon_> Bicker Manor? ;)

[21:55] < Davbo> the large majority (if not all) of the site has been the work of MS (project BDFL of sorts) so he's a bit overworked :-)

[21:55] < Davbo> like vmlemon_ say, I'm all out of Round Tuits so don't get to contribute as much as i'd like

[21:57] < Davbo> s/say/said

[21:57] *** Davbo is tired :-)

[21:57] < Davbo> OOI, what brings you to Kamaelia tehmarz?

[21:58] < tehmarz> Davbo: tdobson is what. xP I said I wanted to get involved with a friendly project in my spare time, and he mentioned Kamaelia.

[22:01] < Davbo> Ah cool :-)

[22:07] < tdobson> i know ms- :) and have been in his presentations about kamaelia and tehmarz likes cool programming stuff and does python...

[22:09] *** Jpat has joined #kamaelia

[22:09] *** Jpat is now known as vmlemon_

[22:10] < vmlemon_> Damn

[22:13] *** elvum suspects tdobson is of backstage list fame

[22:13] < Davbo> Best things you can do to get started with Kamealia IMO is, do the MiniAxon tutorial then make a simple component

[22:14] < Davbo> http://www.kamaelia.org/Tutorials has the MiniAxon and a link to something Michael wrote about writing Kamaelia components

[22:14] < tdobson> elvum: you suspected corret. but I am from pretty much any list I can subscribe to

[22:14] < tdobson> :)

[22:15] *** tdobson thinks infamy might be more appropriate wording as well :P

[22:17] < tehmarz> Davbo: Okay, I'll have a go. :)

[22:19] < Davbo> Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to participate in a zombie apocalypse (play Left 4 Dead) :-)

[22:20] < Davbo> night all.

[22:35] *** tehmarz has parted #kamaelia

[23:25] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia