[11:13] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[11:17] < vmlemon_> Hi

[12:03] < ms-> greetings

[12:56] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[12:58] < vmlemon_> Hi

[13:46] *** Uraeus has joined #kamaelia

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[16:05] < ms-> yawns

[16:21] < ms-> Been going through old photos

[16:21] < ms-> came across a whiteboard brainstorm of kamaelia's early component architecture

[16:22] < vmlemon_> Interesting

[16:24] < ms-> From early 2003

[16:24] < ms-> Interestingly, the components were still making their own deliveries then

[16:24] < ms-> so it's pre-postman

[16:24] < vmlemon_> The prerelease days?

[16:25] < vmlemon_> Or is this just after Kamaelia was presented to the world?

[16:31] < ms-> Pre-release

[16:31] < ms-> About 22 months prior

[16:31] < vmlemon_> Aah

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[20:11] < ms-> OK, some code. Wonder what stage matt's change to the fork is at...

[20:11] < vmlemon_> Hi

[20:17] < vmlemon_> kamlogbot: ecky

[20:17] Reply: Ptang!

[20:18] < vmlemon_> kamlogbot: poke

[20:18] Reply: Not the eye! Not the eye!

[20:18] < vmlemon_> Did I get the eye? ;)

[20:20] *** vmlemon_ sees that a number of iPlayer content download and decryption scripts have been floating around the 'net for a bit now

[20:21] *** ms- ponders adding iplayer as a reaction word to kamlogbot

[20:22] < ms-> with the auto response of

[20:22] < ms-> "you might say that, but I couldn't possibly comment"

[20:22] < vmlemon_> Haha

[20:23] < vmlemon_> "The BBC are hiding me chained up, under a rotten cover in a dank cellar, I'm not sure it's a good idea to talk about that" ;)

[20:24] < ms-> Ah, I see you found the new home for R&I then

[20:24] < ms-> sync

[20:24] < vmlemon_> Wouldn't that be considered bot abuse, though? ;)

[20:24] < ms-> only if it can fight back

[20:24] < vmlemon_> WelcomeBackstage IRC?

[20:25] < ms-> Oh, that. I don't log on there because I forget about it

[20:25] < vmlemon_> Aah

[20:25] < ms-> I use a different work IRC server instead

[20:25] < vmlemon_> Unless you're referring to the new R&I "lab"

[20:25] < ms-> (which is password protected)

[20:25] < vmlemon_> I see

[20:25] < vmlemon_> It's separate from irc.welcomebackstage.com?

[20:25] *** ms- nods

[20:26] < vmlemon_> They seem to have some pretty unusual conversations on that server, that's for sure

[20:26] < ms-> maybe I should log on to it then

[20:27] < vmlemon_> Looks like the channels are fairly fluid/nonstructured too

[20:28] < vmlemon_> (There's about 15 of them, and most are either empty, or have 2 people who are also in others, and the same conversations seem to flow through all of them)

[20:28] < vmlemon_> (At least from what I've seen in the 2 days or so that I've been there)

[20:28] < vmlemon_> Heh

[20:29] < vmlemon_> It's pretty much deserted now

[20:29] < ms-> It would be, it's the weekend

[20:29] < vmlemon_> (I'm the only person in about 5 channels, and there's 2 or 3 other in some others)

[20:29] < vmlemon_> True

[20:29] < ms-> I don't log onto the work IRC server at the weekend

[20:29] < vmlemon_> Mostly BBC folk there, it seems

[20:29] < ms-> It's not been advertised anywhere (much) AFAIK

[20:30] < vmlemon_> Do they even advertise it on the Backstage site?

[20:30] *** vmlemon_ stumbled upon it purely by chance

[20:32] < vmlemon_> I ended up putting snippets of the channel logs somewhere as a curio for people who haven't managed to find the said network

[20:32] < ms-> vmlemon_: "Do they even advertise it " Not as far as I know

[20:33] < ms-> I'm not sure if it even got forwarded to the internal backstage list

[20:33] < vmlemon_> Not sure if it's really intended for the public, or at least if they expect random folks to drop in

[20:33] < vmlemon_> Probably not though

[20:33] < vmlemon_> Given the buzz that started first time I peeked in

[20:34] < vmlemon_> Heh, [Thu Oct 30 2008] [16:14:29] < elson> we've got nowt to do with Jonathan Ross, if thats what your after

[20:34] < ms-> heh

[20:35] < ms-> It's theoretically open to anyone AIUI

[20:35] < vmlemon_> [Thu Oct 30 2008] [16:16:10] < elson> quick everyone, be on your best behaviour

[20:35] < vmlemon_> [Thu Oct 30 2008] [16:16:10] < Tom> so glow is currently an internal project...

[20:35] < ms-> But not advertised

[20:35] < vmlemon_> [Thu Oct 30 2008] [16:16:19] < elson> we got a licence fee payer here

[20:35] < vmlemon_> [Thu Oct 30 2008] [16:16:28] < Tom> used on the homepage, iplayer, /topics, etc.

[20:35] < vmlemon_> [Thu Oct 30 2008] [16:16:33] < vmlemon> Something to do with a hackday thing, if I remember correctly

[20:35] < vmlemon_> [Thu Oct 30 2008] [16:16:34] < Tom> i pay my licence

[20:35] < vmlemon_> [Thu Oct 30 2008] [16:16:48] < elson> you don't count

[20:35] < vmlemon_> Yup

[20:35] < vmlemon_> [Thu Oct 30 2008] [16:20:50] < Jake> SOMEONE had added another password to our site and put it out in the public domain

[20:35] < vmlemon_> [Thu Oct 30 2008] [16:21:01] < elson> i think it was opened up briefly for Mashed

[20:36] < ms-> It's been mentioned

[20:36] < ms-> but a LONG time back

[20:36] < ms-> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/msg07180.html

[20:36] < vmlemon_> Aah

[20:36] < ms-> Sun, 06 Jan 2008 20:10:18 -0800

[20:37] < vmlemon_> Interesting

[20:37] < vmlemon_> Hah, I wonder how they dealt with the deluge of spam

[20:39] < vmlemon_> [Thu Oct 30 2008] [16:25:25] < Jake> As you can tell, we're all very excited that you're the first member of the real public to find their way into this channel

[20:39] < vmlemon_> [Thu Oct 30 2008] [16:25:30] < vmlemon> Heh

[20:39] < vmlemon_> [Thu Oct 30 2008] [16:25:51] < Tom> might be worth having a chat with kamaelia people sometime

[20:40] < vmlemon_> Surprised that they didn't mention the IP address or hostname of the said IRC server in that mail

[20:40] *** vmlemon_ wonders where the supposed Jabber server is

[20:42] < ms-> "[Thu Oct 30 2008] [16:25:51] < Tom> might be worth having a chat with kamaelia people sometime"

[20:42] *** ms- raises eyebrow

[20:43] < ms-> (well, I wish I could do that, but would always be two)

[20:44] < vmlemon_> Looks like their servers built of fruit-flavoured Blue-Tack and chewing gum don't hold up very well to people making channel list requests ;)

[20:44] < ms-> :)

[20:45] < vmlemon_> Haven't tried now, although I managed to get [16:49] [263] Server load is temporarily too heavy. Please wait a while and try again.

[20:45] < vmlemon_> after attempting to join a channel on it

[20:45] < ms-> Wonder what they're using

[20:45] < vmlemon_> Inspires a great deal of confidence ;)

[20:46] < vmlemon_> "Version hybrid-7.2.1" so the MoTD says

[20:46] < vmlemon_> (HybridIRCd?)

[20:47] < vmlemon_> Heh, "“High Performance Internet Relay Chat.”" so the homepage of the said IRCd project claims

[20:48] < ms-> clearly

[20:48] < vmlemon_> "High Performance" on the right hardware, or with suitable software tuning probabl

[20:48] < vmlemon_> *probably

[20:48] < vmlemon_> Still, it is probably a "skunkworks"/"underground" type project

[20:49] < vmlemon_> more than something official, in my opinion

[20:52] < vmlemon_> They have a #rant channel, too

[21:24] < ms-> really? That sounds handy

[21:27] < vmlemon_> [Thu Oct 30 2008] [16:10:44] Topic The channel topic is "Get it off your chest".

[21:28] < vmlemon_> (So it said, although all the channel topics seem to have been wiped out...)

[21:28] < vmlemon_> Probably need to get ChanServ in

[21:45] *** ms- nods

[21:45] < ms-> maybe the server rebooted ?

[21:45] < vmlemon_> Good point

[21:45] < ms-> Or was "upgraded"

[21:45] *** vmlemon_ needs to build a custom toolchain soon, but has never done one before :(

[21:45] < ms-> I think updated is perhaps a more accurate term sometimes

[21:59] < vmlemon_> Hah, http://paster.dazjorz.com/?p=3608

[22:00] < vmlemon_> How random of them...

[22:01] < vmlemon_> Damn wrong link

[22:01] < vmlemon_> http://paster.dazjorz.com/?p=3609

[22:08] *** ms- looks

[22:08] < ms-> heh

[22:19] < vmlemon_> I thought they suspended jokes at the BBC now ;)

[22:21] *** vmlemon_ contemplates making a suggestion to the Wireshark folks to support analysis of Bluetooth traffic over USB...

[22:22] < vmlemon_> Although with them not supporting stuff like PPP over RFCOMM over BT (probably a trivial addition), I doubt they will

[22:24] < ms-> It wouldn't surprise me if they said no tbh

[22:25] < vmlemon_> Had fun with the libpcap folks recently, regarding USB capturing

[22:25] < vmlemon_> There was a weird bug/issue that I didn't know about at all, and I assumed that capturing support was completely broken

[22:25] < vmlemon_> Turned out to be a tcpdump deficiency, and the only way to even capture was to write to a file

[22:26] < vmlemon_> (Gave a sockets related error otherwise)

[22:26] < vmlemon_> [root@DoCoMoDake PureDarwin nano.vmwarevm]# tcpdump -i usb1

[22:26] < vmlemon_> tcpdump: unsupported data link type USB_LINUX

[22:26] < vmlemon_> (You'd think that it's broken/not functional, wouldn't you)

[22:26] < vmlemon_> ?

[22:27] < ms-> looks that way

[22:27] < vmlemon_> But oddly, tcpdump -i usb1 -s 0 -w /dev/null works fine and produces this output:

[22:27] < vmlemon_> tcpdump: listening on usb1, link-type USB_LINUX (USB with Linux header), capture size 65535 bytes

[22:27] < vmlemon_> ^C0 packets captured

[22:27] < vmlemon_> 0 packets received by filter

[22:27] < vmlemon_> 65535 packets dropped by kernel

[22:27] < vmlemon_> ...

[22:27] < vmlemon_> Yay for undocumented behaviour

[22:28] < vmlemon_> Had me puzzled for months until someone piped up about it

[22:30] < vmlemon_> In other news, their website is still screwed up and giving 404 errors in places, after the server went down for months

[22:30] < vmlemon_> (Not good for a project working on quite an important library used by others)

[22:32] < vmlemon_> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.network.tcpdump.devel/3331 is where they finally mention what's going on

[22:32] < vmlemon_> (No-one wrote the supporting printing functionality at all)...

[22:34] < vmlemon_> Heh, I like how Guy describes it as "...more of a "lack of a feature" than a bug"

[22:35] < vmlemon_> If it acts unexpectedly, doesn't work at all, or needs a workaround/undocumented step, in order to use it, then it's certainly a bug

[22:35] < vmlemon_> in my view

[22:43] < vmlemon_> Ugh, I find the fact that there's no standard for adding artist/title/album metadata to a MPEG-4(?)-encapsulated audio file quaint...

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