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[07:40] < MS-> morning

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[10:05] < ian_brasil> @all well done on the 0.6.0 release

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[14:54] < vmlemon_> Hi

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[15:18] < MS-> afternoon

[15:18] < vmlemon_> Hi MS-

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[15:50] < vmlemon_> Hah, they never changed that from One2One to T-Mobile?

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[19:24] < Davbo> Evenin' all.

[19:31] < Chong-> hi Davbo.

[19:32] < Chong-> Just received GSOC t-shirt. Have you received yours?

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[19:33] < Davbo> Yeah, got it yesterday :D

[19:33] < MS-> evening

[19:33] < Davbo> Hi MS-

[19:33] < MS-> hiya

[19:34] < Chong-> Davbo: cool

[19:34] < Chong-> MS-: evening

[19:35] < Chong-> Congratulations on the new release

[19:38] < MS-> Chong-: Cheers

[19:39] *** Chong- feels a little embarrassed that MS- has finished the summary of 0.6.0 release before him :/

[19:39] < MS-> ian_brasil: Thanks for the congrats earlier

[19:40] < MS-> Chong-: *shrug*

[19:40] < MS-> If we all went around being embarassed the world would be very red

[19:40] < Chong-> hehe :-)

[19:40] < MS-> OK, SuSE packaging

[19:40] < aa_> MS- + everyone: congrats on the release

[19:41] < Davbo> Been using openSUSE 11.0 for quite a while now MS- btw, (with KDE4)

[19:41] < MS-> aa_: Cheers :)

[19:41] < MS-> Davbo: What do you think ?

[19:41] < Davbo> (thought you might be interested) - Just needed some free time to actually set it up and configure KDE

[19:42] < MS-> i am interested :)

[19:42] < Davbo> I don't really know much about Qt but it's very pretty.

[19:42] < Chong-> Davbo: have you managed to make your wireless network card work?

[19:43] < Davbo> Yeah, my wireless card has been in the kernel for a while now (open source drivers) just a bit of hassle because you need to supply the firmware

[19:44] < Chong-> Davbo: cool

[19:45] < Chong-> MS-: How will we merge GSOC code to 0.70?

[19:46] < MS-> Well, as per my mail really

[19:46] < Chong-> I see the target date is 28th-30th November.

[19:46] < Davbo> I put the 3D effects on kwin and I must admit, they're actually really useful.

[19:46] < MS-> First of all I want to merge your code because fundamentally there's a need for it

[19:46] < MS-> So, that means a code review, etc

[19:46] < Chong-> MS-: cool :-)

[19:46] < Davbo> which is surprisng in comparison to what stuff Ubuntu did when I enabled 3D effects

[19:47] < MS-> I'm assuming the code has been documented as per the documentation guidelines

[19:47] < MS-> If it hasn't then that'll need to happen

[19:47] < MS-> The approach I'll take is the approach taken with merging large chunks of my old scratch branch

[19:47] < MS-> which is to lift and extract features at a time

[19:48] < Chong-> good idea

[19:48] < MS-> into their own feature branches and then review, polish and merge those

[19:48] < Chong-> I will double check the documentation this weekends

[19:48] < MS-> much appreciated

[19:49] < Chong-> Pleasure :-)

[19:49] < MS-> I'm pretty clear that of doing a complete feature freeze weekend of Nov 22nd.

[19:49] < MS-> ie if it's not merged then, it's not going in the release

[19:49] < MS-> And also to build the release notes as we go

[19:50] < MS-> Feature based branch merges help there significantly

[19:51] < Chong-> cool

[19:53] *** Davbo goes back to writing dominoes in Haskell. :-/

[19:54] < Davbo> I must admit SUSE did a good job making KDE4 usable so quickly

[19:55] < Davbo> 11.1 will include KDE4.1 which fixes a lot of problems people have been having I believe

[19:56] < aa_> 4.1 is quite usable in single head. I found it utterly painful for xinerama/twinview multiple heads

[19:56] < aa_> and what's the thing about not being able to put a simple launcher on the panel?

[19:57] < MS-> aa_: The talk before at Linux Expo Live today was the Novell guy talking about Linux on the desktop and one of the things he was covering was multiple heads on the desktop

[19:58] < MS-> The thing that's difficult about it BTW is the fact that X is *ancient*

[19:58] < Davbo> aa_: not being able to put a simple launcher on the panel? you mean like the firefox button I have on mine?

[19:58] < aa_> MS-: yeah, but x/xinerama has supported multiple heads for years

[19:58] < aa_> Davbo: exactly!

[19:58] < aa_> Davbo: I think maybe it is the version in intrepid

[19:59] < MS-> yeah, but it's the whole reconfigure thing

[19:59] < aa_> Davbo: panel launcher, and menu launcher both put a menu

[19:59] < MS-> Wow, X is 25 years old next year

[19:59] < MS-> That's a tad older than I thought

[19:59] < Davbo> aa_: on SUSE 11.0 it's drag and drop as always

[20:00] < MS-> That'll be completely overshadowed though by whatever Apple announce next year

[20:00] < Davbo> they are slightly different due to the way plasma behaves though

[20:00] < aa_> Davbo: yeah, for some reason dragging and dropping here puts a link to the .desktop file on the panel

[20:00] < aa_> and I couldn't understand what the plasma desktop even is

[20:00] < MS-> (given the Mac will also be 25 next year)

[20:00] < aa_> oh wow, is it really that long

[20:00] < MS-> aa_: It's a new and wizzy way of confusing users

[20:05] < Davbo> I found this quite interesting, they talk about KDE4 (and plasma) and some general stuff on the KDE project but if you have some time to kill commuting - http://twit.tv/floss45

[20:06] < Davbo> filled in some of the history of KDE and Qt which I wasn't fully aware of

[20:07] < MS-> Wonder how accurate it is

[20:07] < MS-> The history is rather amusing

[20:08] < aa_> MS-: normally, I am the kind of user who likes to learn by being confused, but I never worked out what plasma was for. It dims my desktop, but nothing ever happens

[20:08] < MS-> Qt got created. Someone went OoooOOOH. SHINY. I LIKE SHINY. (motif was common then)

[20:08] < MS-> They then started using it.

[20:08] < MS-> THEN, some people got real antsy about the license

[20:08] < aa_> (and those people are still antsy)

[20:09] < MS-> which said that people could use the code for free, and distribute changes, but the changes had to be patches

[20:09] < MS-> So they were NOOOOOOOOO

[20:09] < MS-> And then NOOOOOOOOM

[20:09] < Davbo> hehe, they do talk about the license on there MS-

[20:09] < MS-> and then GNOME

[20:10] < MS-> And then after hundreds of flame wars, they caved and said "sod it, too many flame wars, OK, you can have a GPL version"

[20:10] < MS-> (after trying other stuff)

[20:10] < Davbo> is this the abridged version MS-? ;)

[20:10] < MS-> Yes

[20:11] < MS-> Along the way, qt 1 led to kde 1, qt 2 led to kde 2, qt 3 led to kde 3

[20:11] < MS-> Then someone went "OK, we really ought to lose it and reinvent all these wheels"

[20:11] < MS-> and started kde 4. And it took a long time so they made kde 3.5

[20:11] < MS-> Then kde4 came along and people didn't like it

[20:12] < MS-> so they've been backpedalling to make it palateable

[20:12] < MS-> kde 1 was good (better than the alternatives of the time - which was openlook really)

[20:12] < MS-> kde 2 was anice step up, kde 3 was again a nice step up

[20:12] < MS-> kde 3.5 was generally just faster

[20:12] < Davbo> OOI have you used KDE4?

[20:12] < MS-> In a virtual machine

[20:13] < MS-> I didn't like the look of it

[20:13] *** aa_ is an xfce4 man

[20:13] < MS-> aa_: I tend to like the apps. (I really like kmail & kate for example)

[20:13] < aa_> MS-: well, I use ktorrent, does that count?

[20:13] < MS-> On a lower spec machine I'll use the apps with a less OTT window manager

[20:13] < MS-> heh

[20:14] < aa_> and kate, ah beautiful beautiful kae

[20:14] *** aa_ used to sue kate

[20:14] < aa_> um, use

[20:14] < MS-> heh

[20:14] < aa_> but then I wrote an IDE, now I feel obliged to use it :D

[20:14] < MS-> what difference a letter switch makes

[20:14] *** MS- nods

[20:15] < Davbo> PIDA has a lot of the useful things Kate has (IMO)

[20:22] < aa_> and a few kate doesn't have? ;)

[20:23] < aa_> http://lh4.ggpht.com/aafshar/SNU_d8THxJI/AAAAAAAAApQ/zDnpfc65zVQ/pida-debug.png

[20:24] < Davbo> cool, is that new?

[20:24] < aa_> unreleased, yes

[20:25] < Davbo> now my desktop is KDE I only use pida on my EEE which works really nicely for testing little bits of code in lectures

[20:26] < aa_> et tu davbe!

[20:27] < aa_> but nice, never run it on my eee

[20:29] < Davbo> Got my EEE running gOS these days. Probably the best OS out there for the netbooks (imo)

[20:31] < Davbo> stupid name, but the dock and google gadgets really help make such a small portable useable

[20:32] < aa_> Davbo: change of subject, but do you know what app it is that provides the OSX-alike taskbar at the bottom? with the fish-eye like icons?

[20:34] < Davbo> Ah, gOS uses something called wbar, but I think most people use Avant Window Navigator

[20:34] < Davbo> The chaps on the Ubuntu forums love them, that'll be the best source of info on it :-)

[20:40] < aa_> Davbo: thanks

[20:43] < aa_> ah Error: Screen isn't composited. Please run compiz (-fusion) or another compositing manager.

[20:52] < Davbo> Ah, didn't think about that.

[20:53] < Davbo> back later chaps.

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