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[06:17] < Lawouach_> kaboom!

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[07:16] < Lawouach_> morning MS-

[07:16] < MS-> morning

[07:20] < MS-> Odd, interesting: http://yieldprolog.sourceforge.net/

[07:21] < Lawouach_> nice

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[07:35] < vmlemon_> Hi

[07:35] < MS-> morning

[07:40] < vmlemon_> kamlogbot: dance

[07:40] Reply: does the macarena

[07:47] < MS-> http://yieldprolog.sourceforge.net/tutorial1.html is making my head hurt

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[10:19] < vmlemon_> Hi

[10:26] < MS-> hi

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[11:59] < aa_> MS-: that example on your blog is really nice

[12:00] < aa_> MS-: see, the last 3 bits of the pipeline would be obvious to me, but not the TCPClient, DataDeChunker bit

[12:28] < MS-> aa_: which pipeline?

[12:29] < MS-> Oh, do you mean that because this works:

[12:29] < MS-> return Pipeline(

[12:29] < MS-> TCPClient(ip, port=port),

[12:29] < MS-> Decrypter(), # Decrypt on the way in

[12:29] < MS-> DeMarshallJSON(),

[12:29] < MS-> at least for small data

[12:30] < MS-> that this is less obvious:

[12:30] < MS-> return Pipeline(

[12:30] < MS-> TCPClient(ip, port=port),

[12:30] < MS-> DataDeChunker(),

[12:30] < MS-> Decrypter(), # Decrypt on the way in

[12:30] < MS-> DeMarshallJSON(),

[12:30] < MS-> ie to capture entire frames of messages?

[12:30] < MS-> It's a bit heavy handed way of doing it, given what's sent across the wire, but I was aiming to show nesting of things

[12:31] < MS-> It becomes more obvious that you need to capture entire message frames if you're sending things larger than the network MTU

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[12:32] < MS-> You could have a more intelligent JSON demarshaller, but framing messages is generally cleaner

[12:32] < aa_> MS-: right framing is the bit I would miss out I guess

[12:33] < MS-> Would be nicer for the framing I use there to indicate the size of the frame - since that would allow better throughput

[12:33] *** MS- nods

[12:33] < aa_> MS-: but us high-level programmers tend to forget that streams need to be chunked

[12:33] < aa_> and all that other stuffs

[12:33] *** MS- nods

[12:35] < aa_> MS-: on a totally different note, I see that Kamaelia is copright to "All the contributors"

[12:36] < aa_> MS-: how does that work for you? I am having some minor issues with PIDA's copyrighting

[12:36] < MS-> http://www.kamaelia.org/Developers/SampleContributorAgreement

[12:36] < MS-> :)

[12:37] < MS-> We ask for a BSD licence on contributors code, with the specific ability to also just release under the standard Kamaelia license.

[12:37] < aa_> oh hmm..

[12:37] < MS-> As a result if we needed to relicense, we could just do that - there's a few possible scenarios that make sense there.

[12:37] < aa_> right, relicensing is our sisue

[12:38] < MS-> But the core thing there is that it means that all contributors own their code.

[12:38] < aa_> right

[12:38] < MS-> So that's why it says Copyright Kamaelia Contributors

[12:38] < MS-> Since it is :)

[12:38] < aa_> and can use it prorietarily in non-kamaelia projects

[12:38] < MS-> Avoids the fact that copyright assignment can't happen in some things

[12:38] < aa_> proprietarily

[12:38] < MS-> Yep - that's possible, but not likely

[12:39] < MS-> Also the BBC is a wierd case. If it was proprietary, then the only case I can think of is licensing to a third party (eg a set top box manufacturer)

[12:39] < MS-> which would be (at most) a nominal sum.

[12:40] < aa_> right

[12:40] < MS-> But, seeing as it's the BBC, what that would actually mean is it would end up going to fund more TV stuff

[12:40] < aa_> yes

[12:40] < MS-> Which isn't actually a bad thing - and benefits everyone - unlike private company which would just profit

[12:40] < MS-> (eg Sun & Open Office vs Star Office)

[12:41] < MS-> Also, chances of it happening are slim

[12:41] < MS-> at best

[12:41] < MS-> (BBC is pretty bad at licensing tech IMO0

[12:41] < MS-> When it's done it, it's done well. Most of the time it's been pain.

[12:42] < MS-> eg good examples: Nicam & the LSI/BBC R&D DVB chip

[12:42] < MS-> also some 3D systems that lots of general public won't've heard of

[12:42] < MS-> etc

[12:43] < MS-> NICAM however is an oddity because it was 5-10 years old *at least* before it became useful

[12:43] < MS-> since it was invented as a mechanism for 12 bit sampling (IIRC) digital radio

[12:43] < MS-> (could be wrong on the number of bits :) )

[12:44] < MS-> Wasn't good enough, so scrapped until someone realised that it was good enough for TV and could get sent out

[12:44] < MS-> ie the tech failed and languished for many years before finding an application

[12:45] < MS-> indirectly it drove the mass acceptance of timeshifting though, since most people got NICAM stereo by buying a VCR, rather than a new TV

[12:47] < aa_> hmm, yeah I remember a time when you could get a non-nicam steroe vcr

[12:47] < aa_> I in fact was tricked into buying one

[12:47] < aa_> anyway here's to kamaelia being bigger than Nicam :D

[12:55] < MS-> :)

[12:56] < MS-> I'm after useful TBH rather than anything else. Useful strikes me as an easy goal to achieve, since it already is that, and so it just ought to get usefuller.

[12:56] < MS-> which is perhaps not a very good aim

[12:56] < MS-> since that's not a very good word

[12:56] < MS-> I ought to learn a bit more hyperbole I guess

[12:57] < aa_> MS-: just use the prefix uber- and the suffix -issimo

[12:57] < aa_> uberusefulissimo

[12:58] < MS-> Something to do with the Singularity would be good. and if singularities == black holes, then we could come up with mini-singularities,

[12:58] < MS-> and be a software LHC, threaten to destroy the world (or perhaps worse just icanhazcheeseburger), and get hate videos on youtube from whackjobs.

[12:58] < MS-> or something

[12:58] < MS-> I probably need coffee :)

[12:58] < aa_> ok, step away from the Pipe

[12:59] < MS-> :)

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[15:30] < vmlemon_> kamlogbot: dance

[15:30] Reply: does the macarena

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[17:23] *** Davbo grumbles

[17:23] < Davbo> Stupid Iceland.

[17:24] *** Davbo has an ISA with Icesave

[17:24] < vmlemon_> Hi

[17:24] < vmlemon_> They've frozen the interest on it? ;)

[17:24] *** vmlemon_ ducks

[17:24] < Davbo> lol

[17:25] < Davbo> it was the headline on the 6 o'clock news :-(

[17:26] < Davbo> it's only a problem if you have over £50k really, (un)fortunately i don't

[17:26] < vmlemon_> Not sure if you saw my musing on Twitter, but I'm still bemused about people putting money in NoRo, given that it was a sinking ship

[17:27] < vmlemon_> Hmm, maybe they'll just find all the dying banks and merge them into one big one...

[17:27] < vmlemon_> The Bank(TM)...

[17:30] *** vmlemon_ wonders what they'll call the merged Lloyds TSB and Halifax Bank of Scotland, if it gets the go-ahead...

[17:30] < vmlemon_> (Given that they're both mouthfulls right now) ;)

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[18:13] < Davbo> Sorry for making you jealous btw Lawouach ;-)

[18:28] *** aa_ is with HSBC

[18:28] < aa_> who's shares actually rose today

[18:29] < aa_> probably just on the back of my heinously large mortgage

[18:29] < Davbo> heh

[18:29] < Davbo> it's not nice to wake up to your radio alarm clock talking about your bank

[18:29] < aa_> man, I can imagine

[18:30] < Davbo> it would really suck, but i'm a student

[18:30] < aa_> the radio alarm is doing groundhog day at the moment with those banks

[18:30] < Davbo> and therefore poor.

[18:30] < aa_> Davbo: ah, right so that's the 12 o'clock news then ;)

[18:30] < Davbo> Hah 11 o'clock i'll have you know!

[18:31] < aa_> wow, you must be a 1st/2.1 student

[18:31] < Davbo> lol! :-)

[18:32] < aa_> I shouldn't poke fun, I did 2 undergraduate degrees,a nd one of them lasted 5 years

[18:32] < aa_> but the second one I was the nerdy mature student

[18:32] < aa_> Davbo: what are you studying, and where? (if that not too nosy)

[18:33] < Davbo> Comp Sci at Sheffield

[18:33] < aa_> oh, proper

[18:33] < Davbo> (Uni of)

[18:33] < aa_> well, its a cliche, but "best days of your life"

[18:35] < Davbo> Yeah it's great fun

[18:36] < aa_> oh god I am showing my age now

[18:37] < aa_> scrap all that.

[18:37] < aa_> I can't wait to go to university!

[18:37] < aa_> just deciding what A-Levels to do

[18:39] *** vmlemon_ is also with HSBC

[18:40] < vmlemon_> My 4p in the bank is probably the only thing propping them up ;)

[18:40] < aa_> vmlemon_: see, all those extra charges, ridiculous rules about money withdrawal, pathetic savings interest

[18:40] < vmlemon_> *48p

[18:40] < aa_> that's propping them up

[18:40] < vmlemon_> Aye

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