[08:15] < aa_> morning

[08:16] *** aa_ wrote an app with kamaelia last night

[08:16] < aa_> "app"

[09:18] < aa_> MS-: around?

[09:18] < aa_> or anyone

[09:19] < aa_> I can't see how I can prevent my components from all spinning at 100% cpu

[09:19] < aa_> they both do... or maybe they should, or maybe I am doing something wrong

[09:32] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[09:42] < MS-> Hi - instead of just

[09:42] < MS-> yield 1

[09:42] < MS-> do

[09:42] < MS-> if not self.anyReady():

[09:42] < MS-> self.pause()

[09:42] < MS-> yield 1

[09:43] < MS-> That self.pause() tells the schedule "don't call me until a message comes my way"

[09:43] < MS-> What was the app?

[09:43] *** MS- reading back

[09:43] < MS-> afternoon davbo

[09:43] < Davbo> Afternoon all

[09:44] < Davbo> stopping 100% CPU?

[09:45] *** Davbo is experiencing deja vu

[09:52] < aa_> Davbo: well, seems as though all my component while 1: loops are running tightly

[09:53] < aa_> Davbo: this is a simple one: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/87001/

[09:54] < aa_> when I hook that in a pipeline with a console echoer, I get 100% cpu usage

[09:54] < aa_> MS-: oh god, I failed tor ead your reply again :)

[09:54] < aa_> MS-: thanks

[09:55] *** Davbo nods

[09:55] < MS-> that'll change to send the date/time on demand

[09:55] < MS-> If you want that to send a message periodically you can do the same sort of thing that I discussed with Ben on the IRC channel a few days back and then summarised in the email message to the list

[09:55] *** MS- digs out link

[09:56] < MS-> http://groups.google.com/group/kamaelia/browse_thread/thread/d1928975f238061d

[09:56] < MS-> Specifically the difference between version 1 & version 2

[09:58] < MS-> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/87002/ - will send a message once per second

[09:59] < Davbo> am i right in thinking Python 2.6 doesn't break backwards compatibility but 3 will?

[09:59] < MS-> correct

[10:00] < aa_> MS-: but I have a small problem

[10:00] < MS-> what's the problem?

[10:00] < aa_> let me collect my thoughts

[10:00] < MS-> k

[10:01] < aa_> MS-: ok, it all boils down to the fact that the gtk main loop must block, and also must be running in the main thread

[10:01] < aa_> MS-: so I can write a fake mainloop in python

[10:01] < aa_> while 1: if events_pending(): iterate_the_loop()

[10:01] < aa_> and use that in kamaelia

[10:02] < aa_> MS-: otherwise I can think how to write a main() that blocks indefinitely

[10:02] < MS-> Did you know you can put the kamaelia scheduler into a background thread ?

[10:02] < aa_> MS-: now you are talking

[10:03] < aa_> MS-: that means I can run the main loop in gtk, and let kamaelia live in a thread

[10:03] < aa_> ?

[10:03] < MS-> Yes

[10:03] < MS-> from Axon.background import background

[10:03] < MS-> background().start()

[10:03] < aa_> awesome, where were you at 4am last night!

[10:03] < MS-> sleeping :-D

[10:03] < aa_> :)

[10:03] < Davbo> "now you are talking" /me chuckles

[10:04] *** MS- gentley makes a reminder about Lawouach's cool PyQT code

[10:04] < aa_> MS-: yeah, I can't actually find that

[10:04] < MS-> ah I see

[10:05] < aa_> oh wait, I can

[10:05] < MS-> http://trac.defuze.org/wiki/jlib

[10:06] < MS-> https://svn.defuze.org/oss/jlib/jlib/core/qaxon.py

[10:07] < aa_> yeah just looking at that

[10:07] < MS-> cool

[10:07] < aa_> it makes sense now

[10:07] < aa_> it made no sense the first time

[10:07] < aa_> because I don't know axon, or qt :)

[10:08] < aa_> MS-: still my main() will never yield, is that ok?

[10:09] *** Davbo has seen a lot of positive / constructive feedback after PyCon UK

[10:09] < Davbo> I see why you do these things MS-

[10:10] < aa_> PassThrough just passes inbox -> outbox ?

[10:11] < Davbo> Yeah, use it to avoid having to recv and send the same data in 1 component (if that makes sense)

[10:12] < aa_> yeah

[10:13] < Davbo> for example: http://code.google.com/p/kamaelia/source/browse/branches/private_DK_PaintDev/Kamaelia/Kamaelia/Apps/Paint/ToolBox.py

[10:13] < Davbo> the UI widgets just post to outbox that way

[10:17] < MS-> "still my main() will never yield, is that ok"

[10:17] < MS-> If you mean your front app, then yes

[10:17] < aa_> MS-: yeah just got it

[10:17] < MS-> or rather your GTK mainloop never yields, yes

[10:17] < aa_> I don't have to run a loop in my gtkcomponent's main any more

[10:18] < MS-> background literally just throws the scheduler in the background

[10:18] < aa_> MS-: I just create the pipeline and call background().start() ?

[10:19] < MS-> aa_: yep or after

[10:19] < MS-> background().start()

[10:19] < MS-> Pipeline( ... ).activate()

[10:19] < MS-> while 1:

[10:19] < MS-> time.sleep(1000)

[10:19] < MS-> that pipeline will run happily despite the foreground being blocking

[10:19] < MS-> or completely blocked

[10:20] < aa_> alright!

[10:21] < aa_> ok, I was not grabbing the gtk thread lock

[10:22] < MS-> Davbo: Yeah - you get different amounts of feedback at different conferences, but invariably its always good to go talk to people and find out what people do/don't like since its the only way things improve

[10:22] < MS-> I'll probably be working some more on the website this weekend

[10:23] < Davbo> If you decide to go with a developer Planet i'll happily contribute

[10:23] < MS-> Cool, in which case that's the plan then :)

[10:26] < Davbo> cool :-)

[10:28] < aa_> and now I got to the point where it is timecomponent giving me more jip than gtkcomponent

[10:30] < aa_> and ok, I officially have a gtk kamaelia application

[10:30] < MS-> Wooo !

[10:30] < MS-> :-)

[10:30] < MS-> fantastic :)

[10:30] < aa_> yes, really is

[10:31] < aa_> except now I really need to abstract out this threading stuff

[10:31] < MS-> Yeah, but we all know it's easier to tidy things up than to get something working initially :)

[10:31] < MS-> congrats :)

[10:31] < aa_> MS-: basically any time I call the UI from a kamalia component I have to make sure I get a thread lock, or make sure I add whatever function as agtk idle call

[10:32] < aa_> no doubt I could dig a bit deeper into kamaelia and fix that before a user has to deal with it

[10:32] < aa_> s/fix/hack/

[10:34] < aa_> these things are very tasklety

[10:34] < aa_> kamaelia components

[10:34] < MS-> If you post your code up somewhere when you're happy with a work around, I'll take a look and see if there's anything I can suggest that might fit better. Unless you just get something cool done :)

[10:34] < MS-> Yes

[10:34] < aa_> on steroids

[10:35] < aa_> now I need an application

[10:35] < MS-> If you skip down this page:

[10:35] < MS-> http://code.google.com/p/kamaelia/source/browse/trunk/Code/Python/Axon/Axon/Component.py

[10:35] < aa_> BBC radio player!

[10:35] < aa_> I am addicted to 5 live

[10:35] < MS-> that'd be fantastic :)

[10:36] < MS-> to line 625-650

[10:36] < aa_> ok

[10:36] < MS-> You'll see a basic structure that you could think about

[10:36] < MS-> that or

[10:37] < MS-> lines 487 - 510 (_microprocessGenerator) in http://code.google.com/p/kamaelia/source/browse/trunk/Code/Python/Axon/Axon/Microprocess.py

[10:37] < MS-> The latter is perhaps more appropriate

[10:37] < MS-> Without knowing what you're doing with gtk, I'm not sure about that of course :)

[10:37] < aa_> ok, so far have conveniently ignore microprocessors

[10:38] < MS-> Yep, I'm not saying you should have to care about it, but that it might give you some ideas

[10:38] < MS-> :)

[10:41] < aa_> ok brb

[10:42] < aa_> MS-: looks like all I probably need to do is wrap the pc.next() with thread lock/unlock

[10:44] < aa_> it came to me in a flash: kamaelia is a library not a framework

[10:44] < aa_> I was looking for too much "integration"

[10:44] < aa_> I can make my ui as normal and just let kamaelia do the heavy lifting

[10:48] < MS-> yep. Kamaelia looks very much like a framework, but it's designed to be one that is relatively lightweight and keeps out of the way

[10:49] < MS-> After all Axon is actually the frameworky bit, and kamaelia itself is just a bunch of components

[11:03] < Davbo> Okay, so i've installed 2.6. Can I make a symbolic link or something so I don't need to install everything that's in 2.5's site packages again?

[11:03] < aa_> Davbo: you probably don't want to do that (imo)

[11:03] < aa_> best reinstall the stuff you need

[11:04] < Davbo> Fair enough

[11:04] < aa_> people do funny things like check version on install etc

[11:05] < Davbo> ah i see

[11:05] < aa_> and c suff might be problematic if the c api changed

[11:17] < aa_> MS-: well, its actually quite pretty http://paste.pocoo.org/show/87005/

[11:19] < aa_> ahven't done message sending, just receiving

[11:20] < aa_> not sure if I would need to schedule the out emssages or can just call component.send from anywhere

[11:24] < Davbo> looks good aa_

[11:25] < aa_> I would have put the component and the bridge in the same class, but it won't let me subclass both

[11:29] < MS-> very nice - and it runs :)

[11:29] < aa_> hehe

[11:30] < aa_> ok, well sending works too

[11:31] < aa_> I can just call component.send() from anywhere and it seems to work

[11:31] < aa_> MS-: one issue still I want to make the signals generic

[11:33] < aa_> um.. I mean it's not always "inbox" is it

[12:16] < aa_> ok I blogged a little bit about kamaelia

[12:16] < aa_> http://unpythonic.blogspot.com/2008/10/what-twisted-could-learn-from-kamaelia.html

[12:37] < Davbo> Sounds like you're having licensing fun with PIDA aa_

[12:38] < aa_> Davbo: :)

[12:39] < aa_> Davbo: to be honest, I rather would say "so sue me"

[12:39] < aa_> and then I'll take pida underground, and release it on torrent sites

[12:42] < Davbo> Hah

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[12:47] < Davbo> it's funny, open source is supposed to be all about the community getting stuff done together. But we can't even use each others code.

[12:47] < Davbo> it's no wonder whenever I talk to other students at Uni about getting involved with open source nobody is interested

[12:53] < aa_> right

[13:06] < Davbo> You could always try Beerware or WTFPL aa_

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