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[05:28] < vmlemon_> kamlogbot: dance

[05:28] Reply: does the macarena

[05:28] < vmlemon_> Aaw

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[06:32] < vmlemon_> Hi

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[09:04] < vmlemon_> Hi MS-

[09:05] < MS-> Ah, you've all come back from the net split

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[10:39] < vmlemon_> Wow, SF.net are having another downtime period

[10:40] < vmlemon_> (for CVS migration, so the e-mail I've just received says)

[10:41] < MS-> yep

[10:41] < vmlemon_> Colour me surprised

[10:43] < vmlemon_> Maybe their next downtime period after this one could be their final one ;)

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[13:28] < vmlemon_> kamlogbot: time

[13:28] Reply: 13:28:12

[13:28] < vmlemon_> Hmm, wrong time on that server?

[13:41] < MS-> vmlemon_: yep

[13:43] < vmlemon_> You could set it an hour and a day ahead, and have a time-travelling bot ;)

[13:47] < vmlemon_> Tardis Mode! ;)

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[16:49] < Davbo> Hey all

[17:10] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[17:24] *** Davbo is trying to learn Vim

[17:25] *** Davbo wonders if he's wasting his time

[17:25] < vmlemon_> Hi

[17:27] < Davbo> Hey vmlemon_

[17:28] < Davbo> Made me laugh today seeing you twitter "Northern Fail", although my train was on time today also

[17:28] < Davbo> s/twitter/tweet....or whatever it is

[17:28] < vmlemon_> Heh

[17:29] *** vmlemon_ wasn't a happy bunny then ;)

[17:45] < aa_> Davbo: learning vim is one of the best and worst things ever

[17:46] < aa_> Davbo: it's great because you will be able to use the best editor in the world. It's bad because next time you are writing a letter in openoffice you will sign it "Love, Davbo:wq"

[17:46] < Davbo> haha

[17:46] < Davbo> tbh so far, it actually seems pretty awesome

[17:47] < Davbo> I mean, after looking at emacs i was put off the idea of terminal based text editors

[17:47] < vmlemon_> Meh, I remember the first time I encountered vi...

[17:48] < aa_> Davbo: if you want vim embedded in a more modern IDE, I can strongly recommend pida http://pida.co.uk/

[17:48] < vmlemon_> Ended up shutting the box down, since I had no idea at the time how to quit it :(

[17:48] < aa_> vmlemon_: ahahaha, I think everyone has done that at least once

[17:48] < aa_> I have one developer who believs control-Z'ing it into the background equates to "shutting down vim"

[17:50] *** Davbo just did ctrl+z.....how do i get it back? :(

[17:52] < aa_> fg

[17:53] < aa_> "jobs" for a list of jobs

[17:53] < aa_> and I guess if you want to know all about it "bash job control"

[17:54] < Davbo> Ah I see!

[17:55] < Davbo> I knew you could do this with stuff in the terminal but didn't know what to google to find it

[17:55] < aa_> well, I should say that I am sure non-bash shells also have it

[17:56] < Davbo> this will help out when i'm using ssh for stuff

[18:11] < MS-> ooh, I look away and people chatting

[18:11] < MS-> :)

[18:11] < MS-> evening

[18:11] < aa_> evening ms

[18:11] < vmlemon_> Hi MS

[18:12] < MS-> So, I looked at the new site in windows & mac os and came to the conclusion their fonts rather suck, making the website less pretty than it looks here

[18:12] < MS-> And the less said about MSIE, I think the better :)

[18:12] < vmlemon_> Yup

[18:13] < vmlemon_> Tried in IE earlier, and the lack of transparent PNG support is jarring

[18:14] < Davbo> Hey MS-

[18:14] < MS-> vmlemon_: Indeed. Not sure what to do about that. Need to sort out the fonts thing first though

[18:14] < vmlemon_> (You have the yellow background, but the yellow cat has a fugly grey box behind it :()

[18:14] < MS-> vmlemon_: Indeed

[18:15] < MS-> Hey Davbo

[18:16] < Davbo> I know what to do about it MS-...nothing. IE users love beige/grey boxes anyway

[18:16] < vmlemon_> Hah

[18:16] < vmlemon_> Greige...

[18:17] < aa_> anyone know the sites that you can do a comparison of things on google, like "love vs hate" and get a useless metric of which is better?

[18:17] Reply: Hm?

[18:17] < MS-> Davbo heh

[18:18] < MS-> aa_: You mean a google fight?

[18:18] < Davbo> http://www.googlefight.com/

[18:18] < aa_> ah thanks

[18:19] < MS-> http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=love&word2=hate

[18:19] < MS-> Though interestingly that comes back with rather suprising results at the moment

[18:19] < aa_> is it having issues

[18:19] < aa_> their key probably ran out for the day

[18:19] < vmlemon_> Hmm, what about that font embedding tech that hardly anyone uses?

[18:19] < aa_> man, before ajax, developers knew how to screen scrap

[18:19] < aa_> e

[18:20] < vmlemon_> Or is it anti-aliasing?

[18:22] < vmlemon_> Meh, the bleach thing is still the first thing I think of when AJAX is mentioned...

[18:28] *** Davbo needs a new keyboard

[18:31] < MS-> vmlemon_: That's an interesting thought (the font embedding thing). The font I'm using is UnDotum, which is a free font. (it's part of the unfonts)

[18:31] *** MS- looking at setuptools

[18:31] < MS-> and easy_install

[18:31] < aa_> MS-: try not to look directly at either of them, use a mirror or sunglasses or something

[18:41] < MS-> Hm. trying

[18:41] < MS-> sudo easy_install Kamaelia-0.6.0-rc7.tar.gz

[18:41] < MS-> Results in an error:

[18:41] < MS-> error: Setup script exited with error: SandboxViolation: unlink('/usr/local/share/kamaelia/kamaelia_logo.png',) {}

[18:41] < MS-> """

[18:41] < MS-> This package cannot be safely installed by EasyInstall, and may not

[18:41] < MS-> support alternate installation locations even if you run its setup

[18:41] < MS-> script by hand. Please inform the package's author and the EasyInstall

[18:41] < MS-> maintainers to find out if a fix or workaround is available.

[18:41] < MS-> """

[18:42] < MS-> It's because the setup.py file contains this:

[18:42] < MS-> data_files=[ ('/usr/local/share/kamaelia', ['App/kamaelia_logo.png']) ],

[18:43] < MS-> That's just a pain :-/

[18:45] < MS-> Looks like the django people hit the same issue

[18:47] < MS-> OK, I suppose the first step is to just remove that and see if it'll play ball and work forwards

[18:50] < MS-> OK, that works, which is something.

[18:51] < MS-> easy_install builds could be different from the default I suppose. After all, if you're just after the package, you're just after the package, not the docs and the tools that get included

[18:51] < MS-> nor examples I suppose

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[18:58] < MS-> OK, so where's easy_uninstall then ?

[19:20] < MS-> Ahh, changing things over means it copes properly. (meaning it ignores data_files)

[19:21] < MS-> OK, I can deal with that.

[19:28] < MS-> OK, changed release build scripts to now also make eggs

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[19:37] < aa_> MS-: easy_uninstall gets aliased to sudo rm -rf

[19:43] < MS-> :)

[19:45] < MS-> Looks like this should work now:

[19:45] < MS-> sudo easy_install Kamaelia

[19:48] < aa_> oh man, I have got to try it

[19:48] < aa_> ehehe: Kamaelia 0.5.1 is already the active version in easy-install.pth

[19:49] < aa_> ok, upped to 0.6

[19:49] < aa_> that was actually fun

[20:00] < MS-> :)

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[20:51] < MS-> test

[20:52] < MS-> woo, that's quite fine

[20:52] < MS-> s/fine/fun/

[20:52] < MS-> If you have espeak installed, then you can install & run this IRC Speakerbot as follows:

[20:53] < MS-> sudo easy_install Kamaelia

[20:53] < MS-> curl -O http://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/kamaelia/trunk/Sketches/MPS/IRCSpeakerBot.py

[20:53] < MS-> chmod +x IRCSpeakerBot.py

[20:53] < MS-> ./IRCSpeakerBot.py

[22:15] *** MS- has parted #kamaelia