[06:52] *** MS- has joined #kamaelia

[06:52] < MS-> morning

[06:52] *** MS- has decided to completely rewrite his presentation

[11:05] *** [1]Lawouach has joined #kamaelia

[11:05] < [1]Lawouach> afternoon

[11:05] *** [1]Lawouach is now known as Lawouach_

[11:05] < MS-> heya

[11:05] < Lawouach_> how are things?

[11:06] < MS-> OK - I've realised that I need to rewrite my presentation, so that's what I'm doing, but the upside is I know precisely what sort of approach I'm taking :)

[11:06] < MS-> otherwise good though - yourself?

[11:07] < Lawouach_> :)

[11:07] < Lawouach_> I took the train down to the coast at my parents house for the weekend

[11:07] < Lawouach_> Should be rather quiet :)

[11:07] < MS-> Cool

[11:07] < Lawouach_> yeah

[11:07] < Lawouach_> some coding to do

[11:08] < MS-> Cool

[11:08] < MS-> Basically, yesterday someone asked "how do I debug concurrent systems then? and chatted with them

[11:09] < MS-> Turned out they were using locking and threads and had found a bug's core problem (and solved it) more by luck than by design

[11:09] < Lawouach_> :)

[11:09] < MS-> Which reminded me of the real problems other people tend to have with concurrency (stuff I've not had to worry about now for some time :) )

[11:10] < Lawouach_> BTW I will reply to your aha moment thread

[11:10] < MS-> Cool - much appreciated

[11:16] < Lawouach_> so when is your presentation taking place?

[11:16] < MS-> Tomorrow, just before lunch

[11:17] < Lawouach_> k

[11:17] < MS-> Basically, one of the hidden assumptions in my talks has been "so what *is* the problem with concurrency, and why is our approach more sensible (for many classes of problems) than using threads, locks, mutexes & semaphores (for example)

[11:18] < MS-> So I've put that in rather explicitly, and I'm using a pygame example - moving sprites round the screen - as a concrete counter example

[11:18] < MS-> (after having mentioned a whole slew of real systems built over the past year)

[11:19] < MS-> The idea being in this case to pull out the more explicit 1:1 nature of problem, representation & code

[11:19] < MS-> (at least in the beginner/intro talk)

[11:19] < MS-> Has to talk to both novices "you do it like this" and experienced devs "this is why we do it"

[11:20] < MS-> Going much quicker now that I have an angle :)

[11:21] < MS-> Also I'm doing two talks - one intro & one on services (the CAT) and STM

[11:21] < MS-> The former focusses on "shared data is bad m'kay"

[11:21] < MS-> The latter says "OK, sometimes you have to, this is how"

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[11:26] < Lawouach_> sounds cool

[11:26] < Lawouach_> you'll put it online?

[11:26] < MS-> I will

[11:28] < Lawouach_> great

[11:31] < MS-> I've even got Knuth quotes :)

[11:31] < Lawouach_> :)

[11:31] < Lawouach_> classy

[11:32] < MS-> 3 - 1 saying "I don't use multicore or concurrency, none of my code finds it useful"

[11:32] < MS-> second says "Multicore stuff for my kind of work will never be useful - there's no silver bullet"

[11:32] < MS-> third one saying "I quite like pipelines - they work for me, threads don't"

[11:32] < MS-> Which is neat :)

[11:33] < Lawouach_> :)

[13:50] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[13:50] < MS-> heya

[13:50] < MS-> Davbo: I realised a better way to do my presentation so have been working on a rewrite today

[13:51] < MS-> Hence not been at the conf during the day

[13:51] < MS-> will be along later (hopefully)

[13:51] < Davbo> ah cool

[13:51] < Davbo> i'm in the pyqt one right now :)

[13:51] < MS-> Sorry to be brief yesterday btw - bag stuff 250 bags takes effort :)

[13:51] < MS-> Cool

[13:52] < MS-> (comments in the logs regarding the rewrite if curious)

[13:53] < Davbo> oh no problem i had to rush back to the django talk too

[13:53] < MS-> :)

[13:54] < MS-> I'm hoping to make it to the dinner, but getting the presentations right/sorted takes precedence for me

[13:54] < Davbo> the reg ex mugs are awesome

[13:54] < MS-> :)

[13:58] < Davbo> talked with alot of people about kamaelia

[13:58] < MS-> Cool

[13:58] < MS-> What sort of response/impression/reaction did you get OOI?

[14:00] < Davbo> oh all positive

[14:00] < MS-> Cool

[14:06] < Davbo> i solved one of googles puzzles and won a t-shirt too :D

[14:06] < Davbo> i was hoping for a job offer if i solved it

[14:06] < MS-> heh - cool

[14:24] *** MS- currently drawing little robots

[14:26] < MS-> and swearing at open office

[14:26] < Davbo> sounds like fun

[14:27] < MS-> The former is :)

[14:29] < Davbo> pyqt over

[14:29] < Davbo> it looks pretty easy

[14:29] < MS-> Yep

[14:29] < MS-> Also looks pretty

[14:29] < Davbo> trying to sell his book now

[14:29] < MS-> heh

[14:30] < MS-> sad

[14:30] < MS-> Ooh, is the O'Reilly stall there?

[14:30] < MS-> (haven't been in at all today)

[14:30] < Davbo> yeh

[14:30] < MS-> cool

[14:30] < Davbo> i got python cookbook

[14:30] *** MS- nods

[14:31] < Davbo> just for a reference book

[14:33] < Davbo> okay cya later MS- perhaps

[14:33] < MS-> indeed :)

[15:31] < MS-> now have "this is a way to build a protocol handler" - using the same sort of structure as the greylister

[15:46] < aa_> hi guys

[15:46] < MS-> heya

[15:47] < aa_> still haven't bumped into either of you :P

[15:47] < aa_> but will be at the kamaelia talks tomorrow

[15:47] < MS-> aa_: Sorry I haven't met up yet - I've not been at the conference centre today - since i've been completely rewriting my talk

[15:47] < MS-> I had a spark of inspiration :)

[15:50] < MS-> Been a pain though :/

[15:50] < MS-> Missed lots of talks I really wanted to go to

[15:50] < MS-> But I think it'll be worth it

[15:54] < aa_> cool, can't wait

[15:54] < aa_> MS-: you'll be the third famous person I meet!

[15:54] < MS-> famous? :)

[15:55] < MS-> "A marvel in his own mind" ;)

[15:55] *** aa_ chuckles

[15:55] < aa_> right well, skiving the keynotes and the dinner and everything. So I better hack some code up

[15:55] < aa_> enjoy...

[15:56] < MS-> you too :)

[16:42] *** Lawouach_ has joined #kamaelia

[17:14] *** MS- gets munch

[17:14] < MS-> biab