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[05:53] < vmlemon_> Hi

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[08:21] < MS-> morning!

[08:22] < Lawouach_> hello

[08:30] < MS-> I'm still contemplating what to say in that large thread at the moment

[08:30] < MS-> It's interesting the lack of clue shown by many people in it

[08:31] < Lawouach_> I've given up... it's just too large :)

[08:31] < MS-> Well, there's only a handful of recurring themes

[08:31] < MS-> 1) would deferring payment increase the chances of success in GSOC. The answer to that is clearly no.

[08:32] < MS-> 2) Is deferring payment even vaguely sensible or reduced income sensible. Again no, there's no way I'd've be able to survive as a student on that, and I know that'd be the case for others

[08:33] < Lawouach_> I was slightly amused by those mentors bragging they were giving up the GSoC money to their project. Not that the gesture is bad or anything but the fact that I wonder if they'd do it if the sum was more alike what students are getting :)

[08:33] < MS-> (put another way, there's no way I could concienciously participate in a programme like that - which would mislead about being an alternative to flipping burgers)

[08:33] < MS-> Lawouach_: indeed :)

[08:34] < MS-> The third one which kicked things off is "is early communications style indicitive of success"

[08:34] < MS-> To my mind, in some cases yes, in others no

[08:35] < MS-> Chong & Pablo had very similar communications styles after all, and Chong IMO came the furthest of all the students

[08:35] < MS-> I'm hoping he sticks around.

[08:36] < MS-> (and the others, but I think he's gained a lot personally from this - given it's more in his nature to hold back)

[08:36] < Lawouach_> yeah

[08:38] < MS-> That said, it's interesting to go back to that google docs thing we made during the application period

[08:39] < MS-> The overall success level generally matches how involved people were at the beginning

[08:41] < MS-> fundamentally the thing that brought Pablo into the fold was that his project hit a real nerve in terms of usefulness

[08:42] < MS-> *shrug*

[08:43] < MS-> Lawouach: Are you coming to pycon uk btw or not?

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[09:04] < Lawouach> MS-: sadly not

[09:04] < Lawouach> I wish I had the time for it

[09:13] < MS-> Lawouach: Sorry to hear that

[09:33] < vmlemon_> Hi

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[09:44] < vmlemon_> kamlogbot: dance

[09:44] Reply: does the macarena

[10:06] < Lawouach_> back at work (life is miserable isn't it?)

[10:07] < vmlemon_> So true

[10:08] < Lawouach_> MS-: ping

[10:08] < vmlemon_> (Says the one who's so bored at the moment, that he's Twittering about boxes being moved) ;)

[10:08] < MS-> pong

[10:09] < MS-> weather could be better :)

[10:09] < MS-> I'm actually in a good mood regarding work at this instant

[10:09] < Lawouach_> pm :)

[10:09] < MS-> something I've been fiddling with finally came together in my head last night and is flowing now which is nice

[10:09] < MS-> (essentially a simple inference engine for controlling interactivity in a web app)

[10:10] < vmlemon_> Grey sky and drizzle, here

[10:10] < MS-> But the basics work so that can grow :)

[10:12] < vmlemon_> Hmm, can the new POP3 proxy be used in conjunction with Kamaelia Grey?

[10:12] < Lawouach_> MS-: I'm not sure to understand what the app would be doing :)

[10:19] < MS-> Oh, you mean Matt's proxy?

[10:19] < MS-> heh

[10:19] < MS-> BBC uses MS Exchange for email

[10:19] < MS-> but *also* for calendaring

[10:20] < vmlemon_> I think that's the one

[10:20] < MS-> Most non-MS clients can't handle the calendaring correctly. (korganiser comes close, but no cigar)

[10:20] < MS-> However, the MS web interface is not too bad for that

[10:21] < MS-> So, the idea of the proxy is to allow a mail client (opera in matt's case) which doesn't support POP3 based filters

[10:21] < vmlemon_> OWA?

[10:21] < MS-> To talk to something that talks POP3 and _doesn't_ delete meeting requests from the server

[10:22] < vmlemon_> Interesting

[10:22] < MS-> if OWA = outlook web access, yes

[10:23] < MS-> The other benefit though is that I could integrate it with my existing code as well (in my spam grab) to make that more streamlined as well.

[10:32] < Lawouach_> interesting indeed

[10:32] < Lawouach_> plug a nice GUI atop and you've got yourself a product IT will distribute :)

[10:32] < Lawouach_> damn windows

[10:32] < Lawouach_> gotta restart

[10:32] < Lawouach_> brb

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[11:37] < Lawouach_> damn it windows!

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[11:59] < MS-> heya

[12:00] < Davbo> Afternoon all

[12:00] < MS-> how was prague?

[12:01] < Davbo> it was great!

[12:01] < Davbo> lots of fun :)

[12:01] < MS-> cool

[12:04] < Davbo> Got my name down for this last night: http://www.pyconuk.org/community/FridaySocial

[12:05] < MS-> That list is growing quite quickly isn't it?

[12:05] < Davbo> looks that way

[12:05] < MS-> I'm going to add my name after I've written my slides :)

[12:10] < Davbo> Cool :-)

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[13:26] *** MS- realises that it'd be really quite nice to turn command line apps into IM apps

[13:26] < MS-> (or IRC apps)

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[14:12] < vmlemon_> Hi

[14:18] < aa_> hi everyone

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[14:18] < aa_> looking forward to pycon, I see

[14:23] < MS-> indeedy

[14:23] < aa_> I expect you all at my talk!

[14:23] < aa_> MS-: except I actually want to come and see what you have to say ';)

[14:24] < aa_> and I am not sure I even want to hear my own talk :)

[14:24] < MS-> :)

[14:24] < MS-> Yours is the GTK one, yes?

[14:25] < aa_> yes

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[14:25] < MS-> The thing I like about having an eclectic mix of things is that it speeds things up later on when you really need it

[14:26] < aa_> man yours sound good

[14:26] < MS-> Last year I had no interest really in web apps or WSGI (or not much) whereas at this instant that's precisely what I've been working on at work for the past couple of months

[14:26] < MS-> But generally augmented by kamaelia stuff :)

[14:26] < aa_> MS-: exactly, it's like you really remember things you hear at a random talk

[14:27] < aa_> MS-: definitely, your second talk sounds really good

[14:27] < MS-> CHeers :)

[14:27] < MS-> The nice thing is that I don't like to talk about stuff that's "up and coming" where I can - I prefer to talk about stuff that's real and been used

[14:28] < MS-> Also, I hate it when people use nasty metaphors for things

[14:28] < MS-> even when the term is technically 100% accurate and correct

[14:28] < MS-> "software transactional memory" for example is an opaque phrase

[14:28] < MS-> Whereas if I say "version control for variables", you can see instantly what that means

[14:29] < MS-> At least on some level

[14:29] < aa_> I agree, stuff that "already exists" is much more useful

[14:29] < aa_> not sure if its interesting though, and I will open with "I am not going to be breaking the bounds of modern science"

[14:30] < MS-> Heh, I remember about 3 years ago some concurrency researchers coming up to me saying "so, what is it that you're doing that's new?"

[14:30] < MS-> and I said "nothing" and drew blank looks

[14:31] < aa_> hah, did they happen to work for google inc ?

[14:31] < MS-> I then added "I'm trying to make it usable"

[14:31] < MS-> Oh, I've chatted with google people a fair bit :)

[14:32] < MS-> The reaction the concurrency people was amusing.

[14:32] < MS-> Hm. That's an interesting point.

[14:33] < MS-> I often start with something along the lines of "we're trying to make it accessible by the average user", but saying "we're trying to make it usable and useful" is probably far more effective.

[14:33] < MS-> In many respects, the concurrency benefits are a side effect of the approach taken, even though it's a core goal as well.

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[15:01] < vmlemon_> kamlogbot: dance

[15:01] Reply: does the macarena

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