[00:03] < MS-> right, bed - night all - have fun :)

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[12:00] < Davbo> Anyone ever been to Prague?

[12:00] < Davbo> also; good afternoon everyone :)

[12:01] < vmlemon_> Hi Davbo

[12:04] < Davbo> hows things vmlemon_?

[12:05] < vmlemon_> OK

[12:05] < Davbo> cool

[12:06] < Davbo> Chong-: When you're ready to start looking through Paint feel free, still working on interface. I'd suggest starting with the colour selector and the slider and then tackling the core stuff :-)

[12:12] < Chong-> Davbo: cool. I'll start it later today or tomorrow.

[12:13] *** orphans remembers what he's supposed to be doing :)

[12:15] < orphans> j_baker, I'm guessing it's still stupid o-clock where you are, but the code is in private_JT_JamDev now, and is installable and runnable afaict :)

[12:15] < Chong-> orphans: I have not finished mine yet :/ , but I should be able to finish it today :-)

[12:15] < vmlemon_> "Yay", the only Fedora 8 CD I can find doesn't pass the MD5 checksum test

[12:16] < Chong-> orphans: Anyway, I'll post it to list with review guide after I finish it

[12:16] < orphans> Chong-, ok, no probs. Just give us a shout when it's at some sort of fit state and I'll have a gander :)

[12:16] < orphans> ok, awesome

[12:16] *** vmlemon_ hates optical discs

[12:16] < Chong-> orphans: thanks :-)

[12:35] *** Davbo has somehow ended up on a trip to Prague in 2 weeks :-/

[12:36] < Lawouach_> i was looking to go there in Septeùmber myself

[12:36] < Lawouach_> let me know ho it goes :)

[12:36] < Davbo> Did something put you off Lawouach_?

[12:37] < Davbo> I should have took up your offer and shown up in Brittany ;-)

[12:38] < Lawouach_> :)

[12:38] < Lawouach_> Nothing has put me off

[12:39] < Lawouach_> I just haven't confirmed it yet

[12:43] < Davbo> ah cool

[12:44] *** Davbo wonders how a trip to Dublin ended up being Prague

[12:46] < Lawouach_> :)

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[13:28] < j_baker> I'll give it a look today, orphans

[13:31] < orphans> ta. I'm working on a readme which would probably make things a bit clearer, but give it a run and hopefully it should be clear enough

[13:31] < orphans> if you launch it with jam --help it gives you the usage instructions

[13:32] < j_baker> Does it use pygame?

[13:33] < orphans> yeah - theres an install doc in the Docs which gives you the dependencies

[13:40] < orphans> oh, and there a kinda high-level diagram of the graphlines in Jam here if it helps some: http://edit.kamaelia.org/cgi-bin/Wiki/edit/Developers/Projects/KamaeliaJam/GraphlineDiagram

[14:14] < j_baker> Dumb question, orphans: I just installed Jam. How do I run it?

[14:15] < Davbo> jam --help

[14:15] < orphans> run jam. Although it won't work because I've messed up branching a little :)

[14:15] < orphans> just fixing it - I won't be 2 secs (hopefully) :)

[14:22] < orphans> j_baker, just checking in now, then it should (fingers crossed) work

[14:23] < j_baker> Sweet.

[14:23] < orphans> k, in now

[14:34] < j_baker> Hrm.... pygame is still doesn't seem to work very well for me. :(

[14:35] < j_baker> Davbo, are you still running Ubuntu?

[14:35] < orphans> j_baker, what does it do?

[14:35] < j_baker> Freezes.

[14:35] < Davbo> Yeah Ubuntu

[14:36] < j_baker> Did you have any problems getting pygame to work?

[14:36] < Davbo> nope, orphans is on Ubuntu too anyway, right?

[14:36] < Davbo> installed it from the repos j_baker?

[14:36] < orphans> yup, I am indeedy

[14:37] < j_baker> Tried installing it using synaptic and easy_install

[14:37] < Davbo> you get a complaint?

[14:37] < j_baker> Nope.

[14:37] < Davbo> odd

[14:37] < Davbo> I'll try your branch orphans

[14:37] < j_baker> Either of you using an nVidia graphics card?

[14:37] < orphans> yup, I am

[14:37] < j_baker> I don't think it's orphans code

[14:38] < orphans> I wouldn't bet against :)

[14:38] < j_baker> I've had problems running Kamaelia's pygame

[14:38] < Davbo> Yeah, an 8800 GT :/ using the non-free drivers

[14:38] < j_baker> I just never got around to trying to fix it because I never really had a need for it until now. :)

[14:39] < Davbo> it just crashes?

[14:39] < j_baker> Not even that

[14:39] < j_baker> It freezes up and won't even stop if I hit ctrl-c

[14:39] < j_baker> I have to hit ctrl-\

[14:40] < orphans> how far do you get? does anything come up on screen?

[14:40] < j_baker> OMG...

[14:40] < j_baker> I am such an idiot.

[14:40] < j_baker> I was just trying to remove pygame from my site-packages

[14:41] < j_baker> And somehow I typed sudo rm -rf '/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages' '/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/pygame-1.8.1release-py2.5-linux-i686.egg'

[14:41] < j_baker> And wiped my site-packages directory clean. :(

[14:41] < orphans> I think Davbo did that yesterday didn't he

[14:41] < Davbo> Yep

[14:41] < orphans> gawd, I hope it doesn't happen to me :)

[14:41] < Davbo> it's contagious

[14:42] < Davbo> Just use synaptic to 'reinstall' all your python stuff

[14:42] < vmlemon_> If only there was an undelete function :|

[14:42] < j_baker> Davbo, have you made any progress reviewing my branch (not rushing, just making sure I don't behind you)?

[14:42] < j_baker> Yeah

[14:42] < j_baker> The only thing I dislike about Synaptic is that it seems to install stuff in a weird location.

[14:43] < Davbo> nah j_baker, I ended up reinstalling Ubuntu yesterday and today I've been booking a holiday.

[14:43] < j_baker> Then again, maybe that's my problem. I tend to prefer easy_install.

[14:43] < j_baker> Ok, let me know if you get close to needing more to do. :)

[14:44] < j_baker> BTW orphans, you might also list numpy as a dependency in the install file.

[14:45] < orphans> ahh, probably forgot to remove that - it doesn't depend on it any more

[14:45] < Davbo> i think you might want to grep for an import numpy then orphans. It was telling me it needed it yesterday

[14:45] < orphans> grepping as I speak

[14:46] < j_baker> Does setup.py for jam install Kamaelia/Axon automatically?

[14:47] < orphans> setup.py from where?

[14:47] < j_baker> The setup.py in Apps/Kamaelia-Jam

[14:48] < orphans> oh, after a distbuild?

[14:48] < j_baker> Or was that generated by the DistBuild thing?

[14:48] < orphans> yeah. But yes, it does install both

[14:48] < j_baker> Ah, that's one less thing to worry about. :)

[15:04] < j_baker> Is there any way to get Ubuntu's package manager to scan for missing files and repair them? Or am I going to have to re-install everything manually?

[15:07] < Davbo> I found the easy way yesterday j_baker, reinstalling Ubuntu :P

[15:11] < j_baker> I don't know that it's much better than the hard way. :(

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[15:31] < j_baker> I think I see why that's the easy way now, Davbo. All kinds of weird stuff is happening now. :(

[15:31] < Davbo> like what? Import error on gtk?

[15:32] < Davbo> I couldn't even get update-manager to open then it all went downhill.

[15:32] < Davbo> so long as /home/ has it's own mountpoint you'll be okay

[15:33] < j_baker> :(

[15:33] < j_baker> I didn't do that this time around...

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[17:04] < j_baker> I FINALLY got pygame working!

[17:06] < Lawouach> :)

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[17:14] < j_baker> orphans, what benefit does using midi sound give?

[17:19] < orphans> j_baker, on phone, 2 secs

[17:36] < j_baker> I just now realized that I forgot to send you that email, Lawouach.

[17:36] < j_baker> I'll do that while I'm thinking about it.

[17:36] < orphans> j_baker, sorry, back

[17:37] < j_baker> np

[17:37] < orphans> using midi just means that you can control a few more music apps using Jam

[17:38] < j_baker> Ah, I see.

[17:38] < orphans> so you get the other app to make the sound, but you control what happens with it (when it turns on, off etc) with jam

[17:39] < Lawouach> j_baker, I've fixed a couple of your tickets too

[17:39] < Lawouach> not exactly as you suggested however

[17:39] < Lawouach> please read the tickets' comment

[17:39] < j_baker> I see. Do you know of any apps I can play around with using Ubuntu

[17:39] < j_baker> Ok, will do Lawouach.

[17:40] < orphans> j_baker, hydrogen is probably the simplest to get going with

[17:40] < orphans> you need to flip a couple of settings in it, but I can talk you through that

[17:43] < j_baker> Well, right now, I'm working on getting pyrtmidi working.

[17:43] < Lawouach> brb

[17:43] < j_baker> Does it have any dependencies?

[17:44] < orphans> dunno, it's apt-gettable if that helps :)

[17:44] < orphans> http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/hydrogen

[17:45] < orphans> is pyrtmidi not just being a setup.py install?

[17:45] < j_baker> Well, it does.

[17:45] < j_baker> But I get C++ compiler errors.

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[17:47] < orphans> interesting... can you pastebin them?

[17:47] < j_baker> Sure

[17:48] < j_baker> I think I might have just found it while copying the error.

[17:50] < j_baker> I think I'm missing an ALSA package. Here's the error if it's any help: http://pastebin.com/m530ea554

[17:51] < orphans> libasound-dev should give you what you need methinks

[17:52] < j_baker> Yeah, it works now.

[17:53] < orphans> cool

[17:53] < j_baker> Alright, so what do I have to do to get Hydrogen running (I have it installed)?

[17:53] < orphans> ok, so if you run hydrogen

[17:53] < orphans> and go to file->preferences

[17:54] < orphans> midi system->input wants to say something like midi-through-port0

[17:55] < j_baker> Ok, done.

[17:55] < orphans> then if you switch on some steps in the step sequencer hopefully you'll hear them play through hydrogen

[17:56] < j_baker> It works. The step sequencer I'm assuming is the bar thing in the middle?

[17:56] < orphans> yup :)

[17:56] < orphans> and good!

[17:56] < j_baker> What is the bouncy ball thing at the top?

[17:57] < orphans> ah, that's the x-y pad. At the moment that doesn't do very much - I'm kinda trying to work out what I should do with it

[17:57] < orphans> actually, that's a bit of a lie - it outputs osc and midi messages which you can pick up, but just with the default app it does nothing except look pretty

[17:58] < orphans> is audio working from jam ok?

[17:58] < j_baker> Yup. Not a problem with it.

[17:58] < orphans> awesome

[17:58] < j_baker> (which is something of a feat given that I'm using it with Ubuntu)

[17:58] < orphans> heh, something of a feat given that I wrote it :)

[17:59] < j_baker> Meh, just make sure not to delete site-packages and you'll have a leg up on both me and Davbo. :P

[18:00] < orphans> :)

[18:00] *** orphans touches wood

[18:01] < j_baker> Ok, so I also see some networking stuff in the picture and the help printout. How does that work?

[18:01] < orphans> ok, so first of all start one instance of jam with no arguments

[18:03] < orphans> then launch a second one as jam -p 2003 --listen-port=2002 --remote-address=127.0.0.1 --remote-port=2001

[18:03] < orphans> and any changes you make on one should be mirrored in the other, and vice versa

[18:05] < orphans> then you can launch a third as jam -p 2004 --listen-port=2005 --remote-address=127.0.0.1 --remote-port=2002

[18:05] < orphans> and that should get and send changes to both of the others

[18:05] < orphans> so you can keep adding instances, pointing them to a single instance running somewhere, and it'll become part of the wider network

[18:08] < j_baker> hmmm... the pygame errors started again.

[18:08] < orphans> the freezing?

[18:08] < j_baker> Hold on, let me try rebooting and I'll brb.

[18:08] < j_baker> Yeah.

[18:08] < orphans> k, cool

[18:09] < j_baker> Jam somehow got turned into an uninterruptable process and won't die.

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[18:11] < vmlemon_> Whee, I crashed my box by doing an intensive compilation

[18:14] < orphans> j_baker, any better now?

[18:14] < j_baker> Yup. Works like a charm.

[18:15] < orphans> good good

[18:17] < j_baker> Interesting. Anything else I should make sure to check out with Kamaelia Jam?

[18:18] < orphans> erm, lemme see. I think that's all the major bits and pieces

[18:19] < orphans> the only other thing is the OSC output, but that's pretty difficult to check using external programs, and is powering the communication between jam clients, so gets a bit of a run out

[18:20] < orphans> if you want to give it a go then install pd-extended (deb available from http://puredata.info/downloads), and run pd /usr/share/kamaelia/jam/Pd/PureJam.pd

[18:20] < orphans> then if you fiddle around with bits in Jam you should hear them

[18:20] < orphans> that'll show you the XY pad doing something too

[18:20] < j_baker> Alright, I'll check that out.

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[18:29] < j_baker> Sigh... gotta restart one more time.

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[18:37] < Lawouach> again! :)

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[18:42] < Davbo> we clearly need to get out more Lawouach ;-)

[18:42] < Lawouach> I tend to go out on weekends so that I can drink rhum till 3 in the morning :)

[18:51] < Davbo> hehe

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[19:32] < vmlemon_> kamlogbot: dance

[19:32] Reply: does the macarena

[19:41] < Davbo> Lawouach: you got a second?

[19:44] < Lawouach> yes

[19:45] < Davbo> could you just look at http://code.google.com/p/kamaelia/source/browse/branches/private_DK_PaintDev/Kamaelia/Kamaelia/UI/Pygame/Button.py

[19:46] < Davbo> line 232 is a lousy attempt from me to inherit Button and override the "buildCaption" method to instead put an image on the button instead of a caption

[19:47] < Lawouach> nice doc strings but your indentation is uncommon :)

[19:47] < Lawouach> hmm

[19:47] < Lawouach> why calling Button.__init__?

[19:48] < Lawouach> lines 236 and 237 should be merged, shouldn't they?

[19:48] < Davbo> Google told me to do it

[19:48] < Lawouach> what's the problem BTW? :)

[19:48] < Davbo> I assumed I'd done something totally wrong

[19:49] < Davbo> A call to super will be a call to Button right?

[19:49] < Davbo> This thing i've read isn't very clear at all

[19:50] < Lawouach> super usually isn't and I hope Michael will decide to dump it

[19:50] < Davbo> ooooo it works

[19:50] < Lawouach> what does?

[19:51] < Davbo> I'll commit changes for you to see

[19:53] < Davbo> ....still commiting

[19:53] < Davbo> ah :)

[19:53] < Davbo> http://code.google.com/p/kamaelia/source/browse/branches/private_DK_PaintDev/Kamaelia/Kamaelia/UI/Pygame/Button.py

[19:54] < Lawouach> right so it works?

[19:54] < Davbo> http://code.google.com/p/kamaelia/source/diff?r=5267&format=side&path=/branches/private_DK_PaintDev/Kamaelia/Kamaelia/UI/Pygame/Button.py&old_path=/branches/private_DK_PaintDev/Kamaelia/Kamaelia/UI/Pygame/Button.py&old=5266

[19:54] < Davbo> yeah it works now, thanks Lawouach

[19:55] < Lawouach> with super, the thing to keep in mind is that you should avoid mixing both old style SuperClass.method(self, ...) with super(Class, self).method(...)

[19:55] < Davbo> super is something that still confuses me, so thanks for being patient

[19:55] < Lawouach> they don't play well

[19:55] < Lawouach> it still confuses me too

[19:55] < Lawouach> I don't like it

[19:57] < Davbo> seems odd, don't know what to make of it

[19:57] < Davbo> Anyway, cheers Lawouach. I'm off now, g'night all.

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