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[07:37] < MS-> morning

[07:39] < Lawouach_> morning

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[08:09] < MS-> amusing: http://www.thomson.co.uk/destinations/europe/greece/thassos/skala-potamias/hotels/hotel-kamelia.html?ito=over&referrer=google&OVKEY=kamaelia&OVRAW=kamaelia&OVKWID=60080527031&OVADID=3446880531&OVMTC=standard

[08:12] < Chong-> interesting and Hotel **Kamelia** got very good review :-)

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[09:05] < vmlemon_> Hi

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[10:16] < wyleu> ANoon folks, How turn's the world?

[10:18] < MS-> clockwise today

[10:19] < vmlemon_> Hi wyleu and MS-

[10:20] < wyleu> MS If your in the Southern Hemisphere that would not be a surprise.

[10:21] < wyleu> Hi lemon

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[10:46] *** MS- goes for food

[10:46] *** MS- is now known as ms-afk

[10:50] < Davbo> Olympic opening ceremony is crazy

[10:52] < wyleu> A Dance MUST be performed.

[10:54] < Lawouach_> I can't find a website to watch ity

[10:54] < Lawouach_> it

[10:56] < Chong-> Lawouach_: BBC news 24

[10:57] < Lawouach_> ta

[10:58] < Chong-> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7459669.stm

[10:59] < Lawouach_> hah

[10:59] < Lawouach_> not available in France

[10:59] < Chong-> Lawouach_: pity ;)

[11:02] < Lawouach_> ah gotcha

[11:02] < Lawouach_> found a high def stream in France :)

[11:03] < Chong-> Lawouach_: enjoy :-)

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[12:40] < ms-afk> OK, now I understand what j_baker wants to do. It's still very mixed up with implementation detail, but I think I understand the *what* and *why*.

[12:41] < ms-afk> I'll repost the axon change proposal to the list, but with a caveat that I'll hopefully repost the idea but simplified later.

[12:41] < Davbo> hes put a lot of effort into explaining it :)

[12:42] < ms-afk> The specific implementation still isn't necessarily ideal, for various (relatively irrelevant) reasons, but *a* rationale is clearer

[12:42] < ms-afk> Whether the rationale I'm reading is the same one intended, is debateable.

[12:59] < Davbo> ms-afk: do you know how what happens now I've booked for pycon. Will i get an email with hotel info?

[13:00] < ms-afk> IIRC that was all in the registration pack we gave out last year on arrival.

[13:01] < ms-afk> However if you want the details direct its this:

[13:01] < ms-afk> http://www.etaphotel.com/etaphotel/fichehotel/gb/etp/5678/fiche_hotel.shtml

[13:03] < ms-afk> http://www.pyconuk.org/travel.html

[13:04] < Davbo> alright, fair enough

[13:07] < ms-afk> http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=2153102

[13:07] < ms-afk> :-)

[13:11] < Davbo> cool, i was just asking because it isn't exactly clear "what happens next" and i've never been to one of these conference things

[13:12] < ms-afk> I see

[13:12] < ms-afk> Um, well they all vary

[13:12] < ms-afk> Did you sign up to tutorials?

[13:12] < Davbo> yeah

[13:12] < ms-afk> But they boil down to "turn up, register, go to sessions, chat to people"

[13:12] < ms-afk> etc

[13:13] < ms-afk> :)

[13:13] < ms-afk> "Loiter near the O'Reilly book stall"

[13:16] < ms-afk> I don't think I've managed to leave a conference in recent years without picking up an o'reilly book

[13:16] < Davbo> hehe

[13:16] < ms-afk> amusingly I picked up 2 ruby books at pycon last year :)

[13:17] < Davbo> you get a discount at conferences?

[13:17] < ms-afk> ~ 35%

[13:17] < Davbo> I'm quite fond of Ruby as far as other languages go

[13:17] < Davbo> from my little experience with it anyway

[13:23] < ms-afk> latest spam to the list is fun

[13:23] < ms-afk> has links to things like this:

[13:24] < ms-afk> http://www.multiwebshop.es/epages/221955.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/221955/Products/%22TX%20Calculadora%20UHF%22

[13:24] < ms-afk> just right for friday afternoon

[13:25] < ms-afk> spy teddy!

[13:25] < ms-afk> http://www.multiwebshop.es/epages/221955.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/221955/Products/%22TX%20Mu%C3%B1eco%20UHF%20VOX%22

[13:27] < vmlemon_> Nice, I found a way to break cat temporarily

[13:27] < vmlemon_> Dunno if it works for others, though

[13:27] < vmlemon_> Although it's annoying now

[13:27] < ms-afk> Tried to feed it broccolli?

[13:28] < vmlemon_> Hah

[13:28] < vmlemon_> Trying to do "cat *" in my directory of IRC logs here results in "cat: invalid option -- m Try `cat --help' for more information." for some reason

[13:28] < vmlemon_> even as root

[13:28] *** vmlemon_ is puzzled

[13:30] < vmlemon_> Probably just buggy and breaks when fed a load of files

[13:30] < Davbo> Ahh xfce is far better on my

[13:30] < Davbo> EEE

[13:30] < Davbo> I've been running Ubuntu normally for a while and it's awfully slow

[13:31] < ms-afk> vmlemon_: Ahh I see

[13:31] < vmlemon_> You got your EEE fixed?

[13:31] < ms-afk> does one file start with a - ?

[13:31] < vmlemon_> Good question

[13:32] < ms-afk> Davbo You've got an older eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee haven't you? One of the 900 Mhz ones?

[13:32] < Davbo> Yeah, I'm just trying somethings with it now so I'll know if i can take it to Pycon

[13:32] < ms-afk> That'd probably be better with a lightweight manager.

[13:32] < Davbo> Yeah ms-afk

[13:32] < ms-afk> afterstep is pretty nice on that sort of thing

[13:32] < Davbo> I was thinking of trying OpenBox

[13:32] < Davbo> IIRC that's what it's called

[13:32] < ms-afk> (have an old P2020 laptop which was 550Mhz, but with a transmeta CPU which means it's more like 450-500)

[13:33] < ms-afk> (anything more than afterstep tends to kill it, but with afterstep it's relatively nice

[13:33] < ms-afk> )

[13:33] *** vmlemon_ wonders what happened to Transmeta

[13:33] < vmlemon_> They had some unusual technology, that's for sure

[13:33] < ms-afk> I think Linus Torvalds stopped working for them and all interest in them died completely

[13:33] < ms-afk> yeah, low power was a big deal for them

[13:34] < vmlemon_> Went the way of Cyrix, probably

[13:34] < Davbo> They actually underclock the CPU though ms-afk, so it's 700Mhz

[13:34] < vmlemon_> Hmm, got my CA yet?

[13:34] < ms-afk> I see

[13:34] < ms-afk> vmlemon_: Yes, I have sorry - thank you :)

[13:35] < vmlemon_> Cool

[13:38] *** orphans is beginning to think audio in python is a dead loss :(

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[13:39] < orphans> it's crazy - what works perfectly one day buzzes and clicks like anything the next

[13:40] < Davbo> Anything you'd like me to test orphans?

[13:41] < orphans> mm, the whole thing's pretty crummy tbh. you can have a go if you want - I think the latest trunk should work, albeit really badly

[13:42] < orphans> it's a bit of hassle getting it going, but I can talk you through it if you like

[13:42] < orphans> (not got as far as documenting it properly)

[13:43] < Davbo> sure if it'll help you

[13:44] < orphans> might cheer me up some :)

[13:44] < Davbo> that too :-)

[13:44] < orphans> I'd put money that it'll be flaky as anything though

[13:45] < orphans> but give it a go - first thing to do is svn update on my sketches

[13:46] < Davbo> Alright, done

[13:47] < orphans> ok, now download rtaudio from here and untar it http://www.music.mcgill.ca/~gary/rtaudio/release/rtaudio-4.0.4.tar.gz

[13:47] < orphans> Davbo, you on *buntu?

[13:48] < Davbo> Yeah, Ubuntu 8.04

[13:49] < vmlemon_> Yay

[13:49] < orphans> ok, after that apt-get install python-sip4-dev sip4

[13:49] < vmlemon_> I figured out what was jamming cat now

[13:50] < Davbo> 1 moment, installing something else for rtaudio

[13:51] < Davbo> configure: error: ALSA support requires the asound library!

[13:51] < orphans> what is it?

[13:51] < Davbo> I have libasound2 will that do?

[13:51] < orphans> ahh, apt-get install libasound-dev methinks

[13:51] < orphans> you don't need to build rtaudio - it's built with the bindings

[13:51] < orphans> libasound-dev is needed :)

[13:52] < Davbo> Ah, got it

[13:53] < orphans> k, then next step is to edit Sketches/JT/RtAudioBinding/config.linux.py

[13:53] < orphans> and put the path to your rtaudio directory in there

[13:54] < orphans> and I just realised that this is as complicated as anything else I've used and just as likely to not work :(

[13:54] < Davbo> Cheer up :P

[13:54] < orphans> :)

[13:55] < orphans> then when all that's out of the way sudo python setup.py install from in Sketches/JT/RtAudioBinding and pray a little

[13:56] < Davbo> ImportError: No module named numpy

[13:56] < orphans> shit, sorry

[13:56] < orphans> sudo apt-get install numpy

[13:56] < Davbo> no problem

[13:56] < orphans> python-numpy maybe

[13:57] < Davbo> yeah python-numpy

[13:57] < orphans> yeah, that

[13:57] < Davbo> odd

[13:57] < Davbo> still get the same error

[13:58] < orphans> python-numpy-dev then

[13:58] < orphans> I hate how they split into -dev versions

[13:59] < Davbo> sipconfig now

[13:59] < orphans> import error?

[13:59] < Davbo> yeah

[13:59] < Davbo> ImportError: No module named sipconfig

[14:00] < orphans> hum maybe apt-get install python-sip4

[14:00] < orphans> I would have thought the -dev would have pulled that in with it

[14:00] < mhrd-afk> use aptitude to search for it

[14:00] < Davbo> me too, apparently now

[14:00] < Davbo> s/now/not

[14:00] < Davbo> I think it worked lol

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[14:01] < Davbo> oh wait

[14:01] < Davbo> Got it, missed a trailing / on the config file

[14:02] < Davbo> now what? :-)

[14:02] < orphans> ok, now run tests/printIODevices.py

[14:03] < orphans> hopefully will give you a list of cards

[14:03] < Davbo> Where's that sorry?

[14:03] < Davbo> oh sorry same dir

[14:04] < Davbo> Okay, want me to paste?

[14:05] < Davbo> 0: hw:HDA Intel,0 and 1: hw:HDA Intel,1

[14:05] < orphans> does one have outputs and the other inputs or something?

[14:05] < orphans> (but that's good, what it's supposed to say)

[14:06] < Davbo> http://davbo.pastebin.com/m3d501690

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[14:06] < orphans> ok, cool. Now if you edit tests/sine.py and change the deviceID to 1

[14:07] < orphans> (should be in sys.argv really, I'm fed up with manually playing with device ids)

[14:07] < Davbo> alright

[14:07] < Davbo> done

[14:07] < orphans> and run it

[14:07] < Davbo> sine.py?

[14:07] < orphans> yup

[14:08] < Davbo> it's gone crazy printing numbers

[14:08] < orphans> fingers crossed you'll hear a sine wave

[14:08] < Davbo> umm, I don't hear it

[14:08] < Davbo> printing lots of numbers though

[14:09] < orphans> ahh

[14:09] < orphans> yeah, sorry, it will print lots of numbers - I forgot to check in a change

[14:09] < Davbo> should it still make the sound though?

[14:09] < orphans> yeah

[14:10] < orphans> hum, not cool at all - that does everything which I think it should

[14:10] < Davbo> perhaps it's this line "RtApiAlsa::getDeviceInfo: snd_pcm_open error for device (hw:0,0), Device or resource busy."

[14:10] < orphans> :)

[14:11] < orphans> iirc that's the error Lawouach had a good month or so ago

[14:12] < orphans> which is resolutely not my fault, but I have no idea how to fix

[14:12] < orphans> because linux audio is craptastic

[14:12] < Davbo> hmm I don't think it's that actually

[14:12] < Davbo> because that would be device id 0 surely

[14:12] < orphans> ah, yeah

[14:13] < orphans> that should be

[14:13] < Davbo> what(): RtApiAlsa::probeDeviceOpen: pcm device (hw:0,0) won't open for output.

[14:13] < Davbo> Aborted

[14:13] < Davbo> is what happens when I try deviceid 0

[14:13] < orphans> mhm, that's what should happen

[14:13] < orphans> (sort of - I should catch the error nicer)

[14:14] < orphans> ok, go to the rtaudio directory and run compile

[14:14] < orphans> then cd into it's tests directory and run make

[14:15] < Davbo> alright

[14:15] < orphans> then do ./saw

[14:15] < orphans> and it'll give you some usage crap, do what it says :)

[14:16] < orphans> (using output device as 1)

[14:17] < Davbo> ./saw: command not found

[14:17] < Davbo> I think I did something wrong

[14:17] < orphans> oh, ./playsaw sorry

[14:17] < orphans> forgot the name of it

[14:18] < Davbo> you mean playraw?

[14:18] < orphans> nah, playsaw

[14:18] < Davbo> oh sorry there we are

[14:18] < Davbo> :-)

[14:18] < Davbo> lol

[14:19] < orphans> so it should be something like ./playsaw 2 44100 1

[14:20] < Davbo> dave@KING-2:~/Desktop/rtaudio-4.0.4/tests$ ./playsaw 1 44100 1

[14:20] < Davbo> RtApiAlsa::getDeviceInfo: snd_pcm_open error for device (hw:0,0), Device or resource busy.

[14:20] < orphans> any sound?

[14:21] < Davbo> umm nope

[14:21] < orphans> :)

[14:21] < orphans> definitely not my fault then

[14:22] < orphans> but that's not a very good excuse. and this is even before the shoddiness which is my bit comes into play

[14:22] < orphans> *sigh*

[14:24] < Davbo> seems odd, asla is usually fine on my machine

[14:25] < orphans> yeah, seems strange to me too

[14:26] < orphans> it's ridiculous though really. Out of the four people who have tried my various methods one (me) can get all of them to work. you can get one to work

[14:27] < orphans> lawouach and MS- can both get none to work

[14:28] < orphans> and that's using two of the biggest open source audio apps, and one of the biggest open source audio libraries

[14:31] < Davbo> yeah i didn't have any problems with pd-extended really

[14:31] < orphans> yeah, fwiw I thought pd was as solid as they come - I've never really had issues with it

[14:33] < Davbo> does Pygame give any audio stuff?

[14:33] < orphans> yeah, it does, but the latency is huge, cause it's not designed for doing music stuff

[14:35] < Davbo> shame

[14:35] < Davbo> no way you can get that down?

[14:35] < orphans> not according to the pygame ml - it's a limitation with SDL's mixer

[14:36] < Davbo> Are games alright with that big latency then?

[14:38] < orphans> mm, I guess it's kinda less important

[14:38] < orphans> not sure really, I was having problems with pygame's mixer anyway iirc, but I can remember all too well :)

[14:38] < orphans> s/can/can't

[14:39] < orphans> maybe worth a look at again to see if I can find out why I was struggling

[14:39] < Davbo> You been asking other folks on IRC?

[14:40] < Davbo> i'm sure others have been in similar positions

[14:41] < orphans> no, just been reading around the interwebs a bit

[14:41] < Davbo> Might be worth asking about while you've still got this weekend

[14:41] < orphans> yeah

[14:43] < Davbo> Pygame chaps have been helpful for me once or twice

[14:45] < orphans> uh huh

[14:46] < Davbo> Python Linux and Audio are a nasty combination

[14:47] < orphans> yeah, not fun

[14:47] < orphans> I think there's a reason why everyone uses c

[14:50] < Davbo> Heh don't sound so defeated, you've had it working 4 times or something

[14:50] < Davbo> I've seen it working once

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