[00:01] < ms-afk> probably, that or some nasty trans-proxy

[00:01] < ms-afk> transproxying ftp is a real PITA to get right*

[00:02] < vmlemon_> I'm pretty miffed, since it used to work perfectly a few days ago through my GPRS operator's transparent proxies

[00:02] < vmlemon_> (I think it didn't go through them at all, at one stage)

[00:04] < vmlemon_> They're even worse for HTTP, since it gets throttled to a crawl, and trying to download a file larger than 100KB is pretty dicey

[00:04] < vmlemon_> Even with stuff like inline images in web pages

[00:04] < vmlemon_> I still find it ironic that I can use Gnutella without trouble

[00:16] < ms-afk> Indeed

[00:17] < ms-afk> OK, I have transcoding of images and video now done, working and playable back using a flash player

[00:17] < ms-afk> which is quite nice

[00:17] < ms-afk> I just add files to a directory, and they get auto transcoded

[00:18] < vmlemon_> Cool

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[08:39] < Chong-> morning, ms-afk.

[08:39] < ms-afk> morning

[08:40] < Chong-> ms-afk: have you got opportunity to have a good rest? :-)

[08:46] < ms-afk> Not really.

[08:47] < mhrd> :(

[08:48] < ms-afk> mhrd: Still playing catchup for work stuff.

[08:48] < ms-afk> Deadlines like crazy at the moment

[08:48] < mhrd> more stock taking :)

[08:48] < ms-afk> I'll get sleep at the weekend and got around 10-12 hours on sunday night - but still operating at a loss.

[08:49] < mhrd> and unpacking

[08:49] < ms-afk> ahh from the weekend ?

[08:49] < mhrd> yep

[08:49] < ms-afk> The TV channel gave me a perfect signal for doctor who btw

[08:49] < mhrd> cool

[08:49] < ms-afk> *zero* glitches at all

[08:50] < mhrd> Cy sorted the rebroadcast components

[08:50] < ms-afk> Mind you, being next to the transmitter, with a signal booster kinda guarantees that ;)

[08:50] < mhrd> and Ally Pally, after lots of kicking from Matt Cashmore did provide an astoundingly clean feed

[08:50] < ms-afk> It did

[08:50] < mhrd> actually they had to put in lots of filtering to eliminate interference from that big mast a few hundred yards away :)

[08:51] < mhrd> it even came into teh hall on a sensible type of cable and connector :-O

[08:52] < ms-afk> Cool :)

[08:53] < mhrd> it was a surprisingly good Dr Who considering who wrote the script :)

[08:53] < ms-afk> Someone tried using our code to access DVB BTW

[08:53] < mhrd> cool

[08:53] < ms-afk> But they were defeated by Ubuntu & Pinaccle

[08:53] < mhrd> :(

[08:53] < ms-afk> who's drivers conspired against them

[08:54] < ms-afk> But they took away from what they saw that we made life easier :)

[08:54] < mhrd> we did put up links to instructions on how to pull down the latest v4l-dvb drivers, which we found worked with the pinnacle

[08:54] < ms-afk> Which was cool

[08:54] < ms-afk> really?

[08:54] < ms-afk> I didn't see that :-/

[08:54] < ms-afk> Oh well

[08:54] < mhrd> on the mashed08 backnetwork site - we put up a whole load of pages, including links to resources

[08:54] < ms-afk> This *was* 5 or 6 in the morning on the sunday

[08:54] < mhrd> maybe we should have publicised them better

[08:54] < mhrd> ah :)

[08:54] < ms-afk> So I'll excuse us missing them

[08:56] < mhrd> we'll probably wheel the setup out again next year ... bigger and better if possible :)

[08:56] < mhrd> suggestions for fun/hackable extras to put in the transport stream would be cool

[08:56] *** ms-afk nods & will give it a think

[08:57] < ms-afk> I think by next year I really ought to have put some way of extracting subtitles from DVB into the system though

[08:57] < ms-afk> (Even though I know the irritation involved)

[08:57] < ms-afk> (non standard bitmap formats, text as pictures, etc)

[08:59] < mhrd> its possible that the code they used to generate it for redux might be open sourced by then

[08:59] < mhrd> the tieresias (spelling?) font they use has been

[08:59] < mhrd> are there any videos of the northenders hack around? I wanted to see that

[09:00] < ms-afk> mhrd: They were discussing that on the saturday morning (the subtitle code) - it turns out that they don't have the rights (yet) to be able to do that

[09:01] < ms-afk> I missed the detail of why

[09:01] < ms-afk> I would've probably componentised it by now if it had been ;)

[09:01] < ms-afk> I really would like to be able to read the news :-)

[09:01] < ms-afk> The northenders hack was amusing and cool

[09:02] < ms-afk> amusing because it was andrew oliphants standing interview question :)

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[11:52] < j_baker> So pylons seems to be working. I suppose the good news is that the biggest difficulty was getting the Pylons stuff right rather than fixing stuff with the server.

[11:53] < ms-afk> Excellent

[11:53] < ms-afk> That's what we like to hear :-D

[12:11] < j_baker> Oh, btw, should I be checking any of the stuff that I'm testing in to the repository (like any moin, pylons, or django files). I haven't been thus far.

[12:16] < ms-afk> Seems a bit extreme to check in entire frameworks

[12:29] < ms-afk> OK, what shall I call my offline transcoding engine?

[12:30] < ms-afk> Kamaelia: Transcoder?

[12:30] < ms-afk> Kamaelia: File Processer ? (this is actually more accurate)

[12:30] < ms-afk> (the former sounds better though)

[12:30] < ms-afk> It's a really complicated pipeline:

[12:31] < ms-afk> Pipeline(

[12:31] < ms-afk> DirectoryWatcher(),

[12:31] < ms-afk> ImageTranscoder(),

[12:31] < ms-afk> ).run()

[12:31] < ms-afk> and

[12:31] < ms-afk> Pipeline(

[12:31] < ms-afk> DirectoryWatcher(),

[12:31] < ms-afk> VideoTranscoder(),

[12:31] < ms-afk> ).run()

[12:32] < ms-afk> Media Processor ?

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[12:32] < ms-afk> Oh, hello Lawouach :-)

[12:32] < Lawouach> buenas tardes

[12:32] < ms-afk> Have a nice break ? :)

[12:32] < Lawouach> I had but for some reasons I'm even more tired now than before

[12:33] < Lawouach> Nothing to do with those late nights surely

[12:33] < ms-afk> I often feel like that after a holiday :)

[12:33] < ms-afk> or break :)

[12:33] < orphans> hey Lawouach

[12:34] < Lawouach> hi orphans

[12:37] < Lawouach> orphans: while my head is still functionning, could we have a meeting tomorow evening then?

[12:37] < orphans> yup, 7pm UK?

[12:37] < Davb1> Welcome back Lawouach :)

[12:38] < Lawouach> ta :)

[12:38] < Lawouach> orphans: perfect

[12:39] < Lawouach> and congrats for the RC :)

[12:39] < ms-afk> Much appreciated :)

[12:40] < ms-afk> This is the most fun thing I've made in a little while:

[12:40] < ms-afk> http://edit.kamaelia.org/SpeakAndWrite

[12:41] < ms-afk> Though I'm currently building the backend (and frontend) for something that's a cross between flickr & youtube, but a less useful front end

[12:41] < ms-afk> Though there'll be nothing stopping me using it elsewhere with a more useful front end

[12:44] < Lawouach> that's quite fun :)

[12:45] < orphans> SpeakAndWrite == biggest cause of procrastination currently :)

[12:45] < orphans> I love it when it says "wow, cewl" in a scouse accent :)

[12:49] < Lawouach> :)

[12:50] < Lawouach> It'd be really fn to write a minimal jabber client using pygame to display some sprites (I still play Doom so please let it go ;)) and also use the components behind SpeakAndWrite to read incoming messages out loud :)

[12:50] < Lawouach> I'll have to try asap :)

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[12:58] < ms-afk> orphans: I'm pleased to hear that :)

[12:59] < vmlemon_> Hi

[12:59] < ms-afk> Lawouach: I quite like that idea

[12:59] < ms-afk> does that make me sad?

[12:59] < ms-afk> :)

[12:59] < ms-afk> You could probably animate them based on how much they're talking as well

[12:59] < ms-afk> vmlemon_: Hi

[12:59] < Lawouach> ms-afk: yes

[12:59] < orphans> ms-afk, no, spending your time battling with a program to spell "the" as quickly as possible is sad :)

[13:00] < ms-afk> heh

[13:00] < orphans> "I've got it this time: t...h...d aaaarrrggghhhhh" :D

[13:01] < ms-afk> heh

[13:01] < vmlemon_> Speak 'n' Write?

[13:02] < ms-afk> vmlemon_: That's what I called my thingyawotsit

[13:02] < ms-afk> Since that's what it does

[13:02] < ms-afk> it speaks, you write

[13:02] < ms-afk> Continuing the theme of "it does what it says on the tin"

[13:02] *** vmlemon_ has only just joined, so I assume that's what we're talking about

[13:02] < ms-afk> Ah yes, sorry

[13:06] < vmlemon_> "Microsoft Foundation to Liberate Windows. Trees and Small, Furry Animals Rejoice." ;)

[13:13] < vmlemon_> (Disclaimer: Not going to happen)

[13:30] < Davb1> Can I not link one outbox to another? Hmm

[13:31] < Davb1> I'm trying to get the output from a button to go from it's outbox to (self,outbox) but that appears to be problematic

[13:31] < ms-afk> You can do a passthrough

[13:31] < Davb1> Like make a middleman?

[13:32] < ms-afk> No, it's an option on "self.link"

[13:32] < ms-afk> passthrough linkage

[13:32] < Davb1> oh sorry, i wasn't aware of it

[13:32] < Davb1> i'll look it up

[13:32] < Davb1> thanks ms-afk

[13:32] < ms-afk> You see, I mention the search terms to assist with these things ;-) :-)

[13:32] < ms-afk> you're welcome

[13:32] < ms-afk> :)

[13:33] < ms-afk> http://edit.kamaelia.org/Docs/Axon/Axon.Linkage.html

[13:33] < ms-afk> &

[13:33] < ms-afk> http://edit.kamaelia.org/Docs/Axon/Axon.Component.html

[13:34] < ms-afk> Or if you want anything a child sends to its outbox to be sent out of one of your own outboxes, which is a type '2' passthrough:

[13:34] < ms-afk> thelink = self.link( (myChild,"outbox"), (self,"outbox"), passthrough=2 )

[13:34] < Davb1> Right

[13:36] < Davb1> That's the one! :-)

[13:36] < mhrd> Davb1: its what pipeline and graphline use

[13:37] < Davb1> ah, i suspected so

[13:39] < Davb1> I was just about to write some kind of middle man to just pass it on, but had a suspicion that the functionality might be there so asked :-)

[13:39] < ms-afk> good instinct :)

[13:40] < ms-afk> Worst that could've happened is we ship you off to sibera

[13:40] < mhrd> fwiw, there is a PassThrough component hidden somewhere in Kamaelia.Util but it fortunately rarely gets used :)

[13:40] < mhrd> (afaict)

[13:40] < Davb1> That's only happened once right ms-afk?

[13:40] < ms-afk> Still reserving it for a special occasio

[13:40] < ms-afk> n

[13:41] < mhrd> what about that time with the trained killer attack monkeys?

[13:41] < Davb1> Yeah I was looking at http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/Components/pydoc/Kamaelia.Util.PassThrough.PassThrough.html but it doesn't say much

[13:42] < mhrd> I see what you mean ... anyone mind if I fix that in trunk?

[13:42] < ms-afk> mhrd: Nope - I presume you mean a doc fix?

[13:42] < mhrd> yep

[13:42] < ms-afk> go for it :)

[13:43] < mhrd> whilst I'm at it, I'll sort the docstring errors that the doc rebuilds detected ... but I'm still staying clear of the test suite failures for the moment

[13:44] < ms-afk> Indeed

[13:44] < ms-afk> I've glanced at them, and I think that they look sensible failures, but would rather replace the failing tests with new tests rather than just delete them

[13:45] < ms-afk> Thes tests are a little anal about the idea that Component(arg=1, argb=2) should fail - since that *used* to be the behaviou

[13:45] < ms-afk> r

[13:45] < ms-afk> Whereas now it isn't

[13:45] < ms-afk> Which appears to be the basic complaint

[14:05] < Davb1> Kamaelia: Paint looks prettier every day :-) http://www.davbo.org/images/snapshot11.png

[14:06] < Davb1> Even if i do say so myself

[14:06] < Davb1> ;-)

[14:08] < orphans> looks cool Davb1

[14:08] *** orphans tries it out

[14:09] < Davb1> commiting atm orphans

[14:10] < Davb1> it timed out on transmitting file data

[14:10] < Davb1> :-/

[14:10] < Davb1> okay it's up orphans :-)

[14:10] < orphans> dah, k, will check in a min

[14:12] < Davb1> There's a bug with Bucket i'm still trying to pin down. Let me know if you encounter a problem

[14:14] < orphans> yeah, it only seemed to work sometimes for me

[14:14] < Davb1> depending on when you tried it last the algorithm is completely different, now the size doesn't matter (although filling a large space can be slow)

[14:15] < orphans> oh, actually, I might have just messed up :)

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[14:15] < orphans> yeah, scratch that, works fine :)

[14:16] < ms-afk> Davb1: cool

[14:16] < ms-afk> looks good

[14:17] < Davb1> thanks :)

[14:32] < Davb1> nice 1 line eyedropper tool

[14:32] < Davb1> self.selectedColour = self.display.get_at(event.pos)

[14:37] < mhrd> observation from docstring fixes: 1) remember all code and ascii art diagrams need to be indented 2) plus the preceeding paragraph must end with a double colon '::'

[14:37] < ms-afk> ta

[14:37] < ms-afk> :)

[14:37] < mhrd> no complaints about the copious content though :)

[14:37] < ms-afk> heh

[14:38] < ms-afk> I'm planning on using this transcoder for personal stuff too, I think

[14:38] *** mhrd will wait to see what tonights rebuild identifies

[14:38] < mhrd> cool

[14:38] < ms-afk> family photos etc

[14:38] < ms-afk> family videos

[14:38] < ms-afk> etc

[14:39] < mhrd> cool to see pretty good quality docs explaining stuff well :-D

[14:40] < ms-afk> :)

[14:41] < mhrd> whilst I'm at it ... anyone else come across any components that are lacking docs?

[14:41] < ms-afk> Are you thinking of the STM docs ?

[14:41] < ms-afk> Yes, there's one which really needs *something*

[14:41] < ms-afk> )And probably abuse thrown my way too)

[14:41] < mhrd> STM and experimental._pprocess* stuff

[14:41] < mhrd> which one?

[14:42] < ms-afk> (just finding)

[14:42] < ms-afk> https://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/kamaelia/trunk/Code/Python/Kamaelia/Kamaelia/Internet/TimeOutCSA.py

[14:42] *** ms-afk really like "svn info < filename>" these days

[14:43] < ms-afk> It's a little hideous, but really useful inside the greylisting code

[14:44] < mhrd> you had to pick a hard one didn't you? ;-) I'll take a loko

[14:44] < mhrd> s/loko/look

[14:44] < mhrd> /

[14:44] < mhrd> argh

[14:44] < ms-afk> Wouldn't expect anyone other than me to document it :)

[14:45] < ms-afk> But you *DID* ask :-)

[14:45] < ms-afk> (seriously, I'd leave it :) )

[14:45] < ms-afk> It's a hideous abuse

[14:48] < ms-afk> There's bound to be something more fun to do - like banging heads against a brick wall :-)

[14:48] < mhrd> I'll flesh out some of it

[14:48] < ms-afk> thanks :)

[14:48] < mhrd> some components, like ResettableSender could be nicely factored out into Kamaelia.Util or similar later on

[14:48] < mhrd> as something useful in its own right

[14:49] < ms-afk> Indeed - that's what should've happened - but I think there was a distinct lack of tuits of the right shape

[14:49] < mhrd> np

[14:50] < mhrd> better its there than not there ... easily separated out later.

[14:50] *** ms-afk nods

[14:50] < vmlemon_> Maybe you should buy some shares in the company that makes tuits ;)

[14:53] < ms-afk> Interesting link forwarded: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CodeForTheMaintainer

[15:27] < orphans> just so I'm not outdone by Davbo on the "look how pretty my app is now" :) - http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/5539/jamshotgc2.png

[15:29] < vmlemon_> Cool

[15:29] < Davb1> Hah, nice orphans :)

[15:34] < orphans> if I get a moment I'll make it into a monome emulator (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJwxbTKwONc)

[15:37] < Davb1> http://edit.kamaelia.org/Developers/Projects/KamaeliaPaint/ProgressScreens

[15:37] < Davb1> Thought that might be a good idea

[15:37] < ms-afk> Davb1: nice idea

[15:38] < ms-afk> Shows progress :)

[15:38] < Davb1> ooo a monome emulator

[15:38] < orphans> ms-afk, afraid I'm definitely missing the meeting tomorrow

[15:38] < ms-afk> k

[15:38] < ms-afk> You did warn us aaaaaaaages ago

[15:38] < ms-afk> I'll try and remember it :-D

[15:38] < ms-afk> Davb1: Thanks for that last week - it was useful :)

[15:38] < orphans> "Those of you who are NOT selected for an External Viva are invited to attend a meeting with the external examiners" => "You are expected to attend"

[15:39] < orphans> some invitation!

[15:39] < orphans> (from the same email those two :D)

[15:39] < Davb1> orphans: you seen this? http://www.aqi.co.jp/product/ds10/en/index.html

[15:39] < orphans> yeah, I really really really want it :)

[15:40] < orphans> need to get my DS up and running for hacking actually

[15:40] < Davb1> Yeah I'm thinking about getting it too

[15:40] < Davb1> I think Stackless runs on it

[15:40] < Davb1> afaik

[15:40] < orphans> yeah, and they're porting pygame

[15:40] < Davb1> Ah, that's cool

[15:40] < Lawouach> http://flickr.com/photos/lawouach/2610897608/ < -- I was there on Sunday. :)

[15:41] < vmlemon_> Python on a Nintendo DS?

[15:41] < orphans> vmlemon_, mhm

[15:41] < orphans> Lawouach, jealousy++

[15:41] < Davb1> Yeah, Stackless Python vmlemon_

[15:41] < Lawouach> orphans: I sure hope so :)

[15:41] < vmlemon_> Interesting

[15:41] < ms-afk> Lawouach: nice

[15:42] < mhrd> Lawouach: not MASHED :( :)

[15:43] < Lawouach> :)

[15:46] < vmlemon_> Hmm, any idea if the Kamaelia Logbot is still limited to only logging a single channel>

[15:46] < vmlemon_> ?

[15:48] < Davb1> it wouldn't be much to make it join more than 1 channel vmlemon_

[15:48] < vmlemon_> Aah

[15:48] < vmlemon_> Just another channel line, and probably an additional filename?

[15:49] < Davb1> Hmm

[15:53] < Davb1> Yeah it wont be much vmlemon_

[15:56] < ms-afk> vmlemon_: It'd be relatively trivial to extend

[15:58] < Davb1> Download and read the readme :D

[15:59] *** Davb1 just wants to know someone read his readme ;-)

[16:00] < Davb1> http://edit.kamaelia.org/ whoa that scared me

[16:04] < ms-afk> heh

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[16:30] < Davb1> interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sfQk9NXlns

[16:35] < Davb1> Worth it for BBC director general saying "megabitage"

[16:37] < Davb1> not sure about defectivebydesign's message but it's interesting nonetheless

[16:55] < ms-afk> some of the subtitles in that video are bizarre

[16:56] < ms-afk> and are rather badly informed

[16:57] < ms-afk> The iMP team (which evolved into the iPlayer team) wanted to nab me to go to W12 (where they're based) when I was looking to move to manc (for personal reasons). The better professional move would've been to do that, but didn't happen

[16:57] < ms-afk> Did mean I saw early docs which explicitly stated they wanted everything working on all platforms

[16:57] < ms-afk> So the heckle "yeah right" is just plain misinformed/unbelieving

[16:57] < ms-afk> (lack of ability to deliver is a different matter)

[17:01] < ms-afk> Mind you it's not that good a video either for other reasons :)

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[17:05] < ms-afk> The closing epithet on that thing is bizarre

[17:06] < ms-afk> Erik Huggers appears to be among the fore of those pushing for a complete open stack on the tech refresh

[17:06] < ms-afk> and he's the one most of these microsoft conspiracy theories abound around

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[17:31] < vmlemon_> Hi

[17:32] *** vmlemon_ has just found a "Bright-Life" home shopping brochure full of weird tat that no-one wants...

[17:32] < ms-afk> Hi

[17:32] < ms-afk> http://www.brightlifedirect.com/ ?

[17:33] < vmlemon_> I think so

[17:33] < ms-afk> socks

[17:33] < ms-afk> It's an online sock shop

[17:33] < ms-afk> Some coming with built in holes

[17:34] < ms-afk> um $50 for a pair of socks?

[17:34] < vmlemon_> There are gems in it like the "Samauri Sword Letter Opener", "Record Player With Radio", "Adult Bib" (for the over 50s), "Outdoor Table Insect Screen" and the "Invisible Sheath Urinal"

[17:34] < vmlemon_> and of course - "the Extra Table"

[17:34] < ms-afk> I think I've found something else

[17:35] < vmlemon_> (because "every home could do with one")

[17:35] < ms-afk> These people just do socks

[17:35] < ms-afk> expensive socks

[17:35] < vmlemon_> Must be another one, then

[17:35] < vmlemon_> Wow! And a "Rotating Table"

[17:35] < vmlemon_> That'll get annoying after a while

[17:35] < ms-afk> ooh rotating table

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[17:38] < vmlemon__> Damn, lost connectivity

[17:39] < vmlemon__> There's also a "65 Piece 3D Model Battleship" and "Famous 'Prickler' Strips" (supposedly to stop pets climbing fences)

[17:40] < vmlemon__> Ooh, and a "super high-tech" battery powered "ATM Machine 'Piggy Bank' Bank Machine"

[17:40] < vmlemon__> "PLUS it has a built-in calculator AND alarm clock..."

[17:40] < vmlemon__> Wow

[17:41] *** vmlemon__ is surprised that anyone even reads them

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[23:36] < ms-afk> Wow, reminder about the mid-term evals

[23:36] < ms-afk> (on the mentor list)

[23:36] < ms-afk> Comes by so fast...

[23:37] < ms-afk> less than 2 weeks away...