[04:55] *** jlei_ has joined #kamaelia

[05:10] < jlei_> hey

[05:11] < jlei_> was just wondering whether the issues j_baker raised about the AIM branch have been resolved

[05:11] < jlei_> I've meant to take a look at it every day since I saw the email

[05:11] < jlei_> sorry

[05:11] < jlei_> taking a look at it now

[05:50] < jlei_> question: how did you people get OneBuddyMessenger to run at all? the Text component isn't in this branch...

[05:50] < j_baker> I moved it from private_MPS_Scratch

[05:51] < jlei_> okay

[05:51] < jlei_> hacky, though :)

[05:51] < jlei_> j_baker: I suppose you haven't resolved your issues?

[05:52] < j_baker> Nope. I was curious if maybe it was a NAT issue somewhere.

[05:52] < j_baker> I can try to set up port forwarding, but I couldn't figure out which port it was using.

[05:53] < jlei_> network address translation?

[05:53] < jlei_> hmm

[05:53] < jlei_> I don't really remember

[05:53] < jlei_> >>.< <

[05:54] < j_baker> Hmmmm... I don't know why I didn't think about it at first, but I suppose I could just try to connect without my router.

[05:55] < j_baker> I'll have to give that a try tomorrow. I was about to go to bed actually.

[05:55] < jlei_> okay, go ahead

[05:55] < jlei_> meanwhile I'll have a crack at this

[05:56] < j_baker> Have fun. :)

[05:56] < jlei_> why thank you

[05:56] < jlei_> for the good wishes

[05:57] < j_baker> np and good night (or morning depending on where you are)

[05:57] *** j_baker has parted #kamaelia

[06:12] < jlei_> >>>>>>>>>>>

[06:12] < jlei_> >.

[06:36] < Lawouach_> morning

[06:36] < jlei_> morning

[06:36] < jlei_> out of curiosity, what time is it over there?

[06:38] < Lawouach_> depends by which over there you're referring to

[06:39] < jlei_> whereever you are :)

[06:39] < Lawouach_> I'm in France and it's 8:40am

[06:39] < jlei_> haha, okay

[06:40] < Lawouach_> where are you from yourself?

[06:41] < jlei_> california, it's 11:40 pm

[06:41] < jlei_> *42, that would be

[06:42] < Lawouach_> okay... quite far away from me :)

[06:42] < Lawouach_> what did bring you here?

[06:48] < jlei_> oh, I was one of the SOC students last year

[06:48] < jlei_> I did the AIM code

[06:49] < jlei_> been meaning to get back into it for a while

[06:49] < jlei_> but sitting down and staying sitting down has never been one of my greatest strengths

[06:49] < Lawouach_> damn

[06:49] < Lawouach_> My memory's gone lost then

[06:50] < Lawouach_> I do remember now :)

[06:50] < Lawouach_> jlei_: that's not so bad as a weakness. Life happens mostly outside :)

[06:52] < jlei_> it's okay, we didn't talk much

[06:52] < jlei_> I'll remember that :)

[06:54] < jlei_> j_baker: the OneBuddy client uses port 5190 at first, to connect to login.oscar.aol.com

[06:55] < jlei_> j_baker: then after a waltz with the AOL server, it receives a secret server address and a secret port

[08:01] *** mhrd-afk is now known as hrd

[08:02] *** hrd is now known as mhrd

[08:03] < mhrd> hi jlei_ how are things

[08:03] < jlei_> hi mhrd

[08:03] < jlei_> I'm trying to refamiliarize myself with the AIM components

[08:03] < jlei_> but good overall

[08:03] < jlei_> mhrd: yourself?

[08:04] < mhrd> bit stressed (took on a few too many additional side projects) but otherwise okay :)

[08:04] < jlei_> mhrd: are you still officially with Kamaelia? As I remember there was a bit of reshuffling at the BBC last summer

[08:05] < mhrd> thats right there was - MS- and I are not longer officially allocated any time to work on K

[08:05] < mhrd> however that doesn't stop us doing a little anyway; and it certainly doesn't dictate what we can do with our free time ;-)

[08:05] < mhrd> (the latter being particularly applicable in MS-'s case as it was his pet project idea to start with)

[08:05] < jlei_> haha cool

[08:05] < jlei_> yes

[08:06] < jlei_> the lists seem as prolific as ever

[08:06] < mhrd> I believe MS- does perhaps have some time allocated to GSoC though

[08:06] < mhrd> :)

[08:06] < mhrd> oh, thats a point, I ought to check it!

[08:06] < jlei_> haha

[08:07] < jlei_> that would explain the sudden increase in Kamaelia-related messages in my inbox

[08:07] < mhrd> I've onyl just started the daily email cleansing ritual

[08:07] < jlei_> besides gsoc...

[08:07] < mhrd> ?

[08:07] < jlei_> gsoc would also explain it

[08:07] < jlei_> but I notice a lot of messages aren't related to gsoc

[08:07] < Lawouach_> jlei_: Kamaelia has moved to Google groups

[08:08] < jlei_> Lawouach_: I know

[08:08] < jlei_> um, never mind me

[08:08] < Lawouach_> right so you have register to it, or otherwise I fail to see how you could get more traffic in your box :)

[08:08] < Lawouach_> I'm confused by your logic here :D

[08:09] < Lawouach_> mhrd: hello

[08:09] < mhrd> hi Lawouach_

[08:09] < jlei_> Lawouach: okay, so this was kind of stupid logic

[08:09] < Lawouach_> Let's hope the BBC Research department picks up on K. once again some dya

[08:09] < Lawouach_> jlei_: no just confusing :D

[08:10] < jlei_> but after the switch to google groups

[08:10] < jlei_> I thought I saw a lot more messages to kamaelia-commits

[08:10] < jlei_> that were MS-'s

[08:11] < jlei_> so I thought that if he had more time to dedicate to it now -- "official GSOC time" -- that would explain the sudden increase

[08:12] < jlei_> but maybe I'm just noticing them because the kamaelia lists used to be so full of spam that I hardly paid any attention to them

[08:14] *** Lawouach_ likes PyQt but the Qt MVC approach is so confusing it's almost useless

[08:14] < Lawouach_> sigh

[08:17] *** orphans has joined #kamaelia

[08:45] *** Chong- has joined #kamaelia

[08:45] < Chong-> Morning, all.

[08:46] < mhrd> hi Chong-

[08:48] < orphans> morning

[08:50] < Chong-> hey mhrd and orphans

[09:02] < Lawouach_> hi boys

[09:02] < orphans> morning Lawouach

[09:04] < jlei_> morning :)

[09:14] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[09:26] < Davbo> Another module passed yay :-)

[09:28] < mhrd> congratulations :)

[09:29] < orphans> long kamaelia variable of the day: numberOfFailedSelectsDueToBadFileDescriptor :)

[09:29] < jlei_> there's some self-documenting code for you

[09:32] < jlei_> well, it's very early in the morning, which is my cue to go to bed. night.

[09:33] < orphans> mhrd, you busy?

[09:40] *** Uraeus has joined #kamaelia

[09:48] *** bcarlyon|laptop has joined #kamaelia

[09:54] < mhrd> hi

[09:54] < mhrd> sorry - was afk for a bit

[09:54] < mhrd> whats up?

[09:55] < orphans> ah, just a bit confused about what your changes to selector actually do :)

[09:56] < mhrd> and you expect me to remember? ;-) ... anything specific? or just generally?

[09:56] < orphans> erm, generally really. I'm not sure what notifysocket is used for

[09:57] < mhrd> I'll take a look and refresh my memory

[09:58] < orphans> I think it's something to do with send the selector a message ("X") to tell it to wake up

[09:58] < orphans> but then I'm not really sure what the selector is up to fully, so am a bit clueless :)

[09:59] < mhrd> ok, give me a few mins - you'll notice the last checkin on that was a year and a half ago .. I need to work it out myself :)

[09:59] < orphans> yeah - I thought that might be the case :)

[10:00] < Lawouach_> the selector component is simply mapping events from the select module to axon messages

[10:00] < Lawouach_> so first you have to understand what the select module does :)

[10:01] < orphans> From what I understand select polls sockets to see if anything has turned up?

[10:02] < Lawouach_> it doesn't poll

[10:02] < Lawouach_> the OS uses a low level interuption to inform the select module that something happened on a socket

[10:02] < Lawouach_> it can be a recv ready event

[10:02] < Lawouach_> a write ready event

[10:02] < Lawouach_> or an error

[10:03] < Lawouach_> once select is notified the selector component maps those into messages and propagate them upstream

[10:03] < orphans> ok, so it receives interrupts and tells your program do get off it's behind and do something

[10:03] < Lawouach_> the CSA is then used to either read/write on the socket

[10:04] < orphans> yeah, I understand the CSA more than the selector

[10:04] < Lawouach_> you shouldn't really have to understand the selector component

[10:05] < orphans> but if I need to use mhrd's changes I do, cause I have a lot more time to sort out getting it cleaned up and merged :)

[10:05] < mhrd> ok; iirc there's two sets of things I did there - one related to UDP support, the other is a performance optimisation

[10:05] < orphans> ok, cool

[10:06] < mhrd> context: I was trying to increase the efficiency so I could deal with several megabits per second of data - which it wasn't quite up to on the target hardware at the time

[10:06] < mhrd> the modifications to Selector, afaict, are performance optimisations -

[10:06] < orphans> ahh, ok

[10:07] < orphans> so nothing to concern me too much :)

[10:07] < orphans> (for now)

[10:08] < mhrd> its worth briefly explaining though, since it might affect the CSA implementation in there too:

[10:08] < orphans> ok, cool

[10:09] < mhrd> in the current trunk/Code selector implementation, the call to select:

[10:09] < mhrd> http://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kamaelia/trunk/Code/Python/Kamaelia/Kamaelia/Internet/Selector.py?view=markup#l_266

[10:09] < mhrd> has a timeout attached (0.05 seconds)

[10:10] < orphans> ahh, and you changed to 5

[10:10] < orphans> I saw that

[10:10] < mhrd> so if another component has send the Selector component a message, requesting to add another socket to those being selected over ...

[10:10] < mhrd> then it might have to wait at least 0.05 seconds before the Selector component gets round to it

[10:11] < mhrd> when you're receiving a 2+ Mbps stream in 188 byte chunks over UDP, 0.05 seconds is a long time

[10:11] < mhrd> so I added that extra 'notifysocket' you noticed

[10:13] < mhrd> and split the selector into two components

[10:13] < mhrd> the core select loop is now in a threaded component

[10:14] < mhrd> and the original Selector component now simply passes requests through to it; but also sends a byte to the notifySocket, thereby waking it up, ensuring it deals with the request promptly

[10:14] < orphans> ahh, I see

[10:15] < mhrd> so notice the old loop is now in a component called _SelectorCore : http://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kamaelia/trunk/Sketches/MH/RTP/Selector.py?view=markup#l_127

[10:15] < orphans> yeah

[10:16] < mhrd> and the component called Selector is a simple kind-of wrapper http://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kamaelia/trunk/Sketches/MH/RTP/Selector.py?view=markup#l_294

[10:16] < mhrd> cool

[10:16] < mhrd> ok, now I've understood it again whilst talking through it with you; I reckon those optimisations should be pretty much independent of the UDP stuff, so you can probably ignore them :)

[10:16] < orphans> yeah, that makes it a lot clearer for that bit

[10:17] < mhrd> Selector behaves exactly as it did before; but inside its lots different :)

[10:17] < orphans> I think the chances of me making it to 2Mbps are slim to none unless I accidentally get stuck in a loop :)

[10:18] < mhrd> heh, I think I never quite got it fast enough in the end :-( but it was pushing the abilities of a dynamic interpreted scripting language :)

[10:18] < mhrd> I think I was undecided over whether those Selector 'improvements' actually gave a worthwhile performance gain, so I've not pushed to merge them

[10:19] < orphans> ok, in that case I'll probably leave them in limbo for now if that's ok :)

[10:19] < mhrd> np

[10:19] < mhrd> CSA - the mods are much simpler

[10:20] < mhrd> there's a line or two in __init__ that sets socket options to increase buffer sizes - I think that might have been a performance thing too : http://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kamaelia/trunk/Sketches/MH/RTP/ConnectedSocketAdapter.py?view=markup#l_142

[10:21] < orphans> yeah, in the pyOSC code they do that too (albeit a little lower than you set it)

[10:21] < mhrd> the one to note is the new optional 'sendTo' argument

[10:21] < mhrd> heh, good to know I was on the right track then :)

[10:22] < mhrd> being a UDP socket object you (may) need to specify the destination when sending, not just the payload - hence the extra optional parameter

[10:24] < mhrd> the rest of the changes in there are the logical consequence of that - using that parameter in the _safesend() method - http://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kamaelia/trunk/Sketches/MH/RTP/ConnectedSocketAdapter.py?view=markup#l_184

[10:24] < orphans> yeah, cool - so for stuff like targettedpeer

[10:25] < mhrd> MulticastTransciever was then basically a rip-off of Kamaelia.Internet.TCPClient - just changing the type of socket it created

[10:25] < orphans> yeah, I'm pretty sure I understand that code now

[10:26] < orphans> so I need to rip-off MulticastTransceiver (and/or TCPClient) to get UDP using the CSA

[10:26] < mhrd> yep

[10:27] < orphans> awesome - that was a lot less scary than I thought without all the socket stuff :)

[10:27] < mhrd> well, its 'an' approach - whether its the best, I've no idea; but it should work okay

[10:27] < orphans> yeah

[10:27] < mhrd> the short story is that CSA was already pretty generic - it just didn't have the support for specifying a destination when sending

[10:27] < mhrd> cool - sounds like you're happy then?

[10:28] < orphans> yup, that's great

[10:28] < orphans> thanks a lot mhrd

[10:28] < mhrd> np

[10:28] < mhrd> if only everyone could be that easy to please :)

[10:28] < orphans> heh

[10:29] < mhrd> btw: it might be worth starting from CSA and other components in trunk ... as I said mine are at least 18 months old - so may not have more recent features in them

[10:30] < mhrd> you can still use those in my Sketches area for testing, or to steal appropriate code fragments from though

[10:30] < mhrd> :)

[11:15] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[11:15] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[11:54] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[11:54] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[11:54] < vmlemon_> Hi

[11:55] < mhrd> hi

[12:47] *** Trun has joined #kamaelia

[13:23] < Davbo> Hah

[13:23] < Davbo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vrms

[13:23] < Davbo> Just heard about it on this weeks LugRadio

[13:24] < Davbo> I think it should be improved. Given a nice visual 3d RMS pointing at things on your desktop

[13:26] < Davbo> Anyway, i'm not feeling too great so going to relax for a bit. Exam tomorrow and want to be feeling better :-)

[15:38] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[15:38] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[15:47] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[15:47] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[16:05] < vmlemon_> Hi

[16:29] < Chong-> Anyone know why it doesn't work? L =`ls *pyc`

[16:29] Reply: Hm?

[16:29] < Lawouach> back

[16:29] < Chong-> hey Lawouach

[16:30] < mhrd> you got spaces before or after the '=' sign?

[16:30] < mhrd> take them out if you have

[16:31] < Chong-> I see. so it is thought as command. :-)

[16:32] < Chong-> Thank you very much, mhrd.

[16:32] < mhrd> np

[16:39] < mhrd> blimey that was painful (working out how to be notified of when a checkbox changes state in an win32 MFC dialog)

[16:39] < Chong-> mhrd: after I did L='ls *pyc' then I try: svn rm $L it shows "svn: 'ls' does not exist"

[16:40] < mhrd> you're using ' when you shoudl be using `

[16:40] < Chong-> I see. What's the difference?

[16:40] < mhrd> Chong: suggestion: before executing a command on the basis of what is stored in a variable, its a good idea to echo $L first to check what is in the variable is sensible :)

[16:41] < vmlemon_> Quotation mark and backtick...

[16:41] < mhrd> Chong- : you're using a UK keyboard?

[16:41] < Chong-> yes

[16:42] < mhrd> ' is a single-quote mark and shares a key with @

[16:42] < mhrd> ` is the key at the top left, just below the ESC key :)

[16:44] < Chong-> yes. I know the sign difference :-). What I don't know is the difference of their function

[16:45] < mhrd> X='echo hi'

[16:45] < mhrd> echo $X

[16:45] < mhrd> hi

[16:45] < mhrd> doh

[16:45] < mhrd> ignore that!

[16:45] *** mhrd tries again ...

[16:45] < mhrd> matteh@r44116:~$ X='echo hi'

[16:45] < mhrd> matteh@r44116:~$ echo $X

[16:45] < mhrd> echo hi

[16:45] < mhrd> matteh@r44116:~$ X=`echo hi`

[16:45] < mhrd> matteh@r44116:~$ echo $X

[16:45] < mhrd> hi

[16:46] < mhrd> ' just passes through whatever is inside teh quotation marks, as a single string

[16:46] < mhrd> ` executes whatever is within the backtick marks; then captures the output (stdout) from it and returns that instead

[16:47] < Chong-> yep, I see. thanks. ` is like " in php or eval in other languages

[16:48] < mhrd> yep, you can use ' or " in a shell; however they do behave slightly differently - " will expand any references to variables within it, whereas ' will not

[16:48] < mhrd> matteh@r44116:~/tmp$ X=hello

[16:48] < mhrd> matteh@r44116:~/tmp$ echo '$X'

[16:48] < mhrd> $X

[16:48] < mhrd> matteh@r44116:~/tmp$ echo "$X"

[16:48] < mhrd> hello

[16:49] < Chong-> cool :-)

[16:49] < Trun> btw, watch out with spaces when doing L=$(ls *pyc)

[16:49] < Trun> nctrun@ord3p:/tmp/foo$ touch "hello world"

[16:49] < Trun> nctrun@ord3p:/tmp/foo$ rm $(ls)

[16:49] < Trun> rm: no se puede borrar `hello': No existe el fichero ó directorio

[16:49] < Trun> rm: no se puede borrar `world': No existe el fichero ó directorio

[16:49] < Trun> nctrun@ord3p:/tmp/foo$

[16:49] < mhrd> indeed!

[16:49] < mhrd> if there are spaces in your filenames it'll get mixed up

[16:50] < Chong-> yes, my first mistake is the space:(

[16:50] < mhrd> this is a different issue

[16:51] < mhrd> matteh@r44116:~/tmp$ ls

[16:51] < mhrd> file with spaces in its name

[16:51] < mhrd> matteh@r44116:~/tmp$ X=`ls *`

[16:51] < mhrd> matteh@r44116:~/tmp$ for filename in $X; do echo $filename; done

[16:51] < mhrd> file

[16:51] < mhrd> with

[16:51] < mhrd> spaces

[16:51] < mhrd> in

[16:51] < mhrd> its

[16:51] < mhrd> name

[16:53] < Chong-> I see. this is there are spaces in file name.

[16:53] < Chong-> Another question, do you know how to find a file and then use an editor to open it in one command line?

[16:53] < Chong-> say find . -name xxx | kate

[16:53] < Chong-> but it doesn't work :(

[16:53] < mhrd> find . -name * -exec echo {} \;

[16:54] < mhrd> find . -name xxx -exec kate {} \;

[16:54] < mhrd> at a guess

[16:54] *** Chong- trying

[16:55] < Chong-> mhrd: it works. awsome :-)

[16:56] < mhrd> cool

[16:56] < mhrd> out of interest: what are you working on atm?

[16:57] < Chong-> Working on checking in my codes now

[16:58] < Chong-> And try to remove all .pyc files first

[16:58] < mhrd> ah :)

[16:59] < mhrd> you could just do "svn rm *.pyc" if there aren't too many directories to do it in

[17:00] < Chong-> cool. thanks, mhrd.

[17:00] < Trun> maybe you can do "svn propedit svn:ignore (the directory)", and in the editor that gets open add a line "*.pyc"

[17:01] < Trun> that way svn st and other svn tools will not consider the .pyc files of that folder (not recursively)

[17:01] < mhrd> cunning

[17:02] < Chong-> Trun: cool

[17:04] < Chong-> Trun: anyway to make it recursively? :-)

[17:04] < Trun> nope, AFAIK :-(

[17:05] < Trun> well, except for: for i in $(find -type d|grep -v ".svn"|grep -v "^\.$"); do svn propedit svn:ignore $i; done :-)

[17:06] < Trun> actually, better without the grep -v "^\.$" (current directory should be interesting)

[17:07] < Chong-> Will it open n (directory number) editor windows?

[17:09] < mhrd> Chong-: you referring to when you commit the changes to the svn repository?

[17:09] < Trun> yep, one by one :-(

[17:09] < mhrd> aah, ignore me

[17:10] < Chong-> Trun: np. It's better than type commands for every directory :-)

[17:11] < Chong-> mhrd: hehe. I was talking about the svn propedit svn:ignore

[17:11] < Chong-> thank both of you, mhrd and Trun

[17:13] < mhrd> I thought propedit would act like propset, then realised it wouldn't

[17:15] < Trun> oh, I didn't know propset, it's really cool!

[17:16] < Trun> you can just type for i in $(find -type d|grep -v ".svn"); do svn propset svn:ignore "*.pyc" $i; done

[17:17] *** j_baker has joined #kamaelia

[17:17] < mhrd> nor did I about svn:ignore - kinda useful (thanks!)

[17:17] < Chong-> I see, propset won't open editor. that's great.

[17:26] *** bcarlyon|laptop has joined #kamaelia

[17:41] *** Trun has joined #kamaelia

[18:24] *** bcarlyon|laptop has joined #kamaelia

[18:29] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[18:34] *** mhrd is now known as mhrd-afk

[18:59] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[18:59] < j_baker> Hello Davbo

[19:00] < Davbo> Hi j_baker, all

[19:11] < orphans> Lawouach, Lawouach_ ping?

[19:12] < Lawouach> pong

[19:12] < orphans> hey, quick question about a bit of code

[19:13] < Lawouach> sure

[19:13] < orphans> in TCPClient safeConnect tries to do sock.connect() and then tests for a whole bunch of errors. mhrd-afk's code for Multicast binds to the socket so it can receive and checks for the same errors

[19:13] < orphans> is connecting and binding pretty much the same thing from the sockets point of view?

[19:14] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[19:14] < orphans> struck me as a bit odd that binding and connecting are treated exactly the same

[19:14] < Lawouach> I have not looked at the Multicast bind

[19:15] < Lawouach> From what mhrd-afk said before I have a feeling he copy/pasted because he needed it working swiftly

[19:15] < orphans> http://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kamaelia/trunk/Sketches/MH/RTP/Multicast_transceiver_threaded.py?revision=2687&view=markup - it's line by line the same except for sock.connect() => sock.bind()

[19:15] < Lawouach> Just an intuition

[19:15] < orphans> yeah, I thought that might be the case

[19:15] < Lawouach> So I would say "this sounds odd"

[19:15] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[19:16] < Lawouach> Now I don't know that component enough to make a better guess than that.

[19:16] < Lawouach> You'll have to ask him :)

[19:16] < orphans> ok, cool. thought it might be some simple bind ~= connect thing

[19:17] < orphans> but yeah, that'd make sense

[19:18] < j_baker> Making Debs is such a PITA

[19:18] < Davbo> packaging in general is a PITA imo.

[19:19] < j_baker> It's not too bad. I can type in one line and get an RPM. Here is how to get a deb out of distutils:

[19:19] < j_baker> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python

[19:20] < Davbo> Yay for using Mandriva ;-)

[19:20] < Davbo> openSUSE has that new packaging thing don't they?

[19:20] < j_baker> I thought openSUSE used RPMs?

[19:21] < Davbo> they have that build service thing

[19:21] < Davbo> not sure if that will do it for you

[19:22] < j_baker> Oh yeah, I remember the build service. That was pretty easy. I have to say that I like Ubuntu/Debian's packaging system best of all.

[19:22] < j_baker> At least as an end user...

[19:22] < Davbo> https://build.opensuse.org/

[19:23] < Davbo> I've never used it

[19:23] < j_baker> As a developer.... it's another story entirely.

[19:23] < Davbo> nor am i sure what exactly it does as i've never actually got beyond packaging anything :)

[19:25] < j_baker> Well, it seems to handle dependencies better.

[19:25] < j_baker> (openSUSE was a PITA about dependencies)

[19:26] < j_baker> Granted, that was the PPC version of openSUSE.

[19:28] < Davbo> Hehe, I'd be using openSUSE now if I could but it doesn't like my network card

[20:56] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[20:56] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[21:37] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[22:13] *** Davbo is revising Process Pipelining for his exam tomorrow :)

[22:13] < Davbo> Should be easy considering ;-)

[22:38] < j_baker> Heh... so you get dual credit then?

[22:38] < j_baker> For your school and for GSoC :)

[22:55] < Davbo> hehe

[22:55] < Davbo> hopefully,

[22:55] < Davbo> Well the exam is early tomorrow morning. So i'm off to bed

[22:55] < Davbo> night all