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[08:43] < Lawouach> hi guys

[08:43] < Lawouach> how are things?

[08:44] < orphans> hey Lawouach, not bad ta

[08:44] < orphans> first exam tomorrow morning :S

[08:44] < Lawouach> I see

[08:45] < Lawouach> well hope for the best, be ready for the worst :)

[08:45] < orphans> yeah. This one is going to be my worst one I think

[08:45] < Lawouach> If you'd rather postpone tomorrow's meeting to later on this week

[08:45] < Lawouach> It'd be fine by me.

[08:46] < orphans> nah, may as well get it done, I've got a day off on tuesday anyway

[08:48] < Lawouach> That's fine then.

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[09:45] < Chong-> Morning, all.

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[10:18] < vmlemon_> Hi

[10:49] < Chong-> hey vmlemon_

[10:51] < vmlemon_> o.O 23:28 < wonknu> what a hack: a sticker ^^

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[13:37] < mhrd-home> yay, found the dvb bug :)

[13:44] < mhrd-home> vmlemon_ : I can confirm that the WinTV NovaT ub stick (labelled "DVB-T / TNT / Freeview TV receiver" on the back) does indeed to whole transport stream capture :)

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[15:00] < Davbo> Afternoon all

[15:01] < vmlemon_> Hi Davbo

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[16:09] < Davbo> Afternoon Lawouach

[16:09] < mhrd-home> hi Davbo

[16:10] < Davbo> Hi mhrd-home :)

[16:10] < Davbo> Anyone heard if MS is going to be around tomorrow?

[16:11] *** mhrd-home has parted #kamaelia

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[16:11] < mhrd-home> I've no idea I'm afraid

[16:24] *** Davbo finally gets JFileChooser to work.

[16:26] < mhrd-home> congratulations. was it giving you trouble?

[16:26] < mhrd-home> hmm, sorry that wasn't meant to come across as sarcastic(!)

[16:27] < vmlemon_> Yay

[16:27] < Davbo> s'ok :) - It was being annoying, took 20minutes to get it doing what i want

[16:27] < vmlemon_> I think you could have got him last night :|

[16:28] < Davbo> I was trying to get it to just open folders

[16:28] < vmlemon_> Java--

[16:28] < Davbo> not java's fault, it was mine

[16:28] < vmlemon_> Aah

[16:29] < Davbo> it's really easy.....if you read the javadoc

[16:29] < Davbo> :)

[16:29] < Davbo> all swing components need to specify a setVisible method, this one didn't do what i wanted

[16:30] *** vmlemon_ wonders why there isn't a Java component called Slide or SeeSaw to go with Swing ;)

[16:32] < Davbo> Swing works really well, for what it is. It's just horribly slow

[16:32] < vmlemon_> Anyone use AWT, these days?

[16:32] < mhrd-home> when you specify verbose API structures like the ones Java seems to grow, I don't think there's room for personality or humour :-)

[16:33] < Davbo> Yeah vmlemon_, i'm using it right now

[16:33] < vmlemon_> Hell, they could lump them into a set of components called Park or Playground

[16:34] < Davbo> now what's your opinion. Should you select a folder then it import all the MP3's in there

[16:35] < Davbo> or select a folder and it recursively go through each folder in that looking for MP3's also

[16:35] < vmlemon_> Hmm, you could have an option to make it do both

[16:35] < vmlemon_> Although I think the latter sounds like a better idea

[16:36] < vmlemon_> Hah, http://solarisdiary.blogspot.com/2008/05/corel-seems-to-finally-found-linux.html

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[18:05] < Davbo> mhrd-home: ping

[18:07] < Davbo> sorry ignore that, fixed it

[18:08] *** vmlemon__ wonders why Solaris 10 seems to be stuck at a resolution that's too high to display easily in a VMware window

[18:09] *** mhrd-home oeys

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[18:10] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[18:29] < Davbo> mhrd-home: how does one kill a Pygame.Display ?

[18:29] < Davbo> it ignores everything sent to the signal box or so the docs say

[18:29] < Davbo> s/signal/control

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[18:33] < mhrd-home> in which case it can't be killed ... unless someone mods it to make it killable

[18:34] < mhrd-home> I've not looked at that code for ages though, so I could be wrong

[18:35] < Davbo> right

[18:35] < Davbo> ty

[18:35] < mhrd-home> as you say, from the docs, it certainly looks like the situation is how you describe it :-)

[18:35] < mhrd-home> np

[18:35] < Davbo> i know

[18:36] < Davbo> if in my main i do a while done: and make something happen which triggers that

[18:36] < Davbo> kay, thanks

[18:36] *** Davbo thinks out-loud

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[19:17] < vmlemon__> kamaeliabot: dance

[19:17] Reply: does the macarena

[19:19] *** vmlemon__ is trying to download SCO OpenServer 6.0

[19:20] < Davbo> Lawouach: Could you possibly test a theory for me? - or anyone else that runs a distro with some kinda 3d effects on there

[19:20] < Lawouach> I don't enabled 3d effects on my desktop.

[19:20] < Lawouach> So I'm not sure I can help

[19:20] < Davbo> ah, sorry Lawouach.

[19:21] *** vmlemon__ doesn't use 3D desktop effects

[19:21] < Davbo> When I was running Ubuntu with the 3D effects on programs like Whiteboard and Magnadoodle were pretty slow at updating. I didn't test it without those enabled though so never got to the bottom of it

[19:24] < Davbo> Oh I can test it myself, sorry for bothering you all.

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[19:27] < Davbo> Oh! it's fine :)

[19:27] < Davbo> KDE + Compiz Fusion doesn't cause the lag i experienced on Ubuntu

[19:40] < vmlemon__> kamaeliabot: ecky

[19:40] Reply: Ptang!

[20:00] *** Chong- has joined #kamaelia

[20:01] < Chong-> Evening, all.

[20:02] < Davbo> Evenin' Chong-

[20:03] < Chong-> hey Davbo.

[20:04] < Chong-> Do you enjoy your book from google?

[20:05] < Davbo> Yeah not had chance to read much but it looks good :)

[20:06] < Chong-> Glad to hear that. I think it should be a great book, at least from the introduction:-)

[20:06] < Davbo> Yeah

[20:07] < Chong-> it's very thoughful of google to send everyone a book.

[20:07] < Chong-> Out of curiosity, do you know what book they give out last year?

[20:15] < Davbo> I don't think they did

[20:15] < Davbo> they sent out a bunch of stuff though

[20:16] < Davbo> I'm pretty sure we have more coming :)

[20:17] < Chong-> I see. So we are very lucky to receive a book rather than some downloadable software.

[20:17] < vmlemon__> GSoC: The Gift That Keeps On Giving ;)

[20:18] < vmlemon__> or something like that

[20:25] < Chong-> vmlemon__: hope so :-)

[20:26] < vmlemon__> Hah, http://paster.dazjorz.com/?a=rawpaste&p=2980 - the stupidity that emerged after someone reckoned that his phone was wiretapped ;)

[20:26] < vmlemon__> (includes a comprehensive "fix list", too ;) )

[20:29] < mhrd-home> so I'm noticing

[20:30] < vmlemon__> and he gets "rickrolled" ;)

[20:31] < Chong-> Interesting. yours and Colden's answers are very funny. :-)

[20:33] *** vmlemon__ wonders if r420r was serious about the "backdoor"

[20:35] < Chong-> out curiocity, which channel is it?

[20:37] < vmlemon__> #symbian

[20:39] < mhrd-home> I love the way people seem to forget that there's a whole back end infrastructure. putting backdoors in the handset feels like too much hassle :)

[20:40] < vmlemon__> Wasn't there a case in Greece a while ago involving a wiretap on some part of Vodafone's network there?

[20:41] < mhrd-home> no idea ... wouldn't surprise.

[20:46] < Chong-> I think he's over nervous :-)

[20:46] < Chong-> vmlemon__: thanks for the link

[20:47] < Chong-> mhrd-home: evening.

[20:47] < vmlemon__> No problem

[20:47] < vmlemon__> I was up until 1am last night on IRC, so saw plenty of weird stuff :|

[20:48] < Chong-> mhrd-home: can I ask you one question?

[20:51] *** MS- has joined #kamaelia

[20:51] < MS-> Evening

[20:51] *** MS- read logs and noticed the query:

[20:51] < Chong-> hey MS-

[20:51] < vmlemon__> Hi MS-

[20:51] < MS-> "Anyone heard if MS is going to be around tomorrow? "

[20:51] < MS-> I'm not going to be I'm afraid

[20:51] < Chong-> I heard not :-)

[20:51] < mhrd-home> Chong: go for it

[20:52] < Chong-> mhrd-home: thanks.

[20:52] < vmlemon__> "Don't Ask To Ask, Or Risk Axing"; )

[20:52] < vmlemon__> ;)

[20:52] < mhrd-home> hi MS-

[20:53] < Chong-> Is it possible to pass extra data to TopologyViewer?

[20:53] < mhrd-home> such as what?

[20:53] < Chong-> e.g., person mum photo=/local/mum.gif

[20:53] < MS-> Hiya mhrd-home

[20:54] < Chong-> Is it possible to pass the link of the photo to TopologyViewer?

[20:54] < mhrd-home> the documented functionality is all there is atm ...

[20:54] < Chong-> I can only see it's possible to pass parciple type (a class or function).

[20:56] < mhrd-home> you can always get creative with a custom particle class and the 'names' for nodes

[20:56] < Chong-> parciple type -- particle type

[20:56] < mhrd-home> or take a look at extending the topology viewer

[20:57] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[20:58] < Chong-> yes. I know I can create a new particle type/ class, but it seems not possible to pass data (e.g. the photo of every node/ person).

[20:59] < Chong-> vmlemon_: I see :-)

[20:59] *** mhrd-home is now known as mhrd

[21:00] *** mhrd is now known as mhrd-home

[21:01] < MS-> Chong-: Have you done the basic blue/pink version first as suggested?

[21:01] < MS-> As a simple step forward ?

[21:02] < MS-> If not, I would suggest that first :)

[21:02] < Chong-> MS-: not yet. I want to do them together :-)

[21:02] < Chong-> since they are similar.

[21:03] < MS-> It's up to you. I suggested the two seperate steps since it *will* make your life easier

[21:03] < Chong-> person mum photo=/local/mum.gif person mum gender=female

[21:03] < MS-> But it's up to you

[21:03] < mhrd-home> MS-'s suggestion is a good excuse to familiarise with the particle classes and how they are used by the topologyviewer

[21:04] < Chong-> I know the blue/pink version is easier which can be implemented by define two particle classes.

[21:04] < MS-> After all, it's alot simpler to go to 2 particles pink/blue

[21:04] < MS-> than it is to go to multiple & configurable

[21:04] < MS-> (to say the least)

[21:05] < MS-> Chong-: Have you ever done test first development ?

[21:05] < MS-> (I suspect not)

[21:05] < Chong-> yep. probably I should do that one first.

[21:05] < Chong-> MS-: which one do you mean?

[21:06] < MS-> test driven development

[21:06] < MS-> Ala Kent Beck?

[21:06] < MS-> It's not intended as a trick question :)

[21:07] < Chong-> Do you mean the ConsoleReader and FileAdaptor ones?

[21:08] < MS-> I'm not talking about Kamaelia code here, I'm asking generally - have you ever done test driven development (in the style of Kent Beck and friends) ?

[21:08] < MS-> I suspect not you see

[21:09] < Chong-> You mean, do unit test

[21:09] < MS-> since even when doing non-test driven dev it changes the way you work

[21:09] < MS-> No, it's subtler than doing unit testing

[21:09] < MS-> You can/do use unit testing in TDD, but unit testing isn't TDD

[21:10] < MS-> I'll take that as a no.

[21:11] < MS-> That's fine

[21:11] < Chong-> So, what's your suggestion?

[21:11] < MS-> I was just asking a question, not making any specific suggestions or anything

[21:12] < Chong-> To be honest, I have just tried different input data to make sure it works.

[21:12] < MS-> I was trying to understand why you wanted to jump to try to do 2 things at once, and realised it was probably due to not having done TDD, and then that explains things

[21:12] < MS-> It's not a criticism in the slightest

[21:12] < MS-> just after a yes/no, and I've inferred a no from your general answers :)

[21:13] < Chong-> yes. the answer is no :-)

[21:14] < MS-> Cool. np.

[21:14] < MS-> The essence of it is "implement the minimal code to make the test work"

[21:14] < MS-> So, if a test suite contained 1 test and 1 test only

[21:14] < MS-> that looked like this:

[21:15] < Chong-> go ahead

[21:16] < MS-> from to_test import mean

[21:16] < MS-> class myTest(unittest.TestCase):

[21:16] < MS-> def test_mean(self):

[21:16] < MS-> self.failUnless(mean( [1,2,3]) == 2)

[21:16] < MS-> Then the code that is required to make that test pass is this:

[21:16] < MS-> def mean(*args):

[21:16] < MS-> return 2

[21:17] < MS-> Since the test suite only checks 1 return value

[21:17] < MS-> In test driven development you get very used to extending the test suite to cause the code to cover the functionality you *actually* want

[21:18] < MS-> Now in very general terms you can extend this on a larger scale

[21:18] < MS-> If you look at the MiniAxon tutorial, it is essentially a test driven style thing

[21:18] < MS-> except with much larger "tests"

[21:18] < MS-> But still small incremental code steps

[21:19] < MS-> The small incremental steps make it easier to focus normally as well

[21:19] < MS-> and less to worry about at once

[21:19] < MS-> So, that was really the suggestion here

[21:19] < Chong-> I see.

[21:19] < MS-> First of all - "topology visualiser from console"

[21:19] < MS-> "then from file"

[21:20] < MS-> "then from custom file"

[21:20] < MS-> "then interpret *one* new thing from custom file" (giving you colour)

[21:20] < Chong-> Do one new thing, only need to test one; Do two things, need to consider theirs couples

[21:20] < MS-> Then interpret one more thing (eg image) for completely new/custom particle

[21:21] < MS-> On the surface of things, it looks like more work, but in practice, when you have a clear cut direction you're heading in, it's alot quicker

[21:21] < Chong-> got it. it's a very good incremental plan :-)

[21:21] < MS-> The ER modeller tool for example was only 1/2 days effort for example

[21:22] < MS-> Because I took that kind of approach

[21:22] < MS-> I also had the advantage of knowing the code

[21:22] < MS-> :)

[21:23] < MS-> TDD can also be useful in suprisingly many areas

[21:23] < Chong-> it's brilliant to finish the ER modeller tool in 1/2 days. I could spend one week;)

[21:24] < MS-> It's harder to apply in Kamaelia at present though than it should be, but that's partly due to Kamaelia's nature being rather different from the Unit test model

[21:24] < MS-> Thing was I *needed* it. Wasn't something I wanted, I actually *needed* a tool

[21:25] < MS-> I was working on a large(ish) data model, and wanted to play around with it, and it's structure and that was the quickest way of doing so.

[21:25] < Chong-> cool. coding increases productivity.

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[21:27] < Chong-> Another thing I think of, which may be also a little ahead of plan, is it possible to custom the links?

[21:27] < vmlemon_> What about testing the test code?

[21:27] < Davbo> Evening MS-

[21:27] < Davbo> You going to be around tomorrow?

[21:28] < Chong-> vmlemon_: then testing the testing of the test code? :-)

[21:28] < mhrd-home> Chong- : check the docstrings and the source - should be obvious from there

[21:28] < MS-> Davbo: Tomorrow evening, not during the day unfortunately

[21:29] < Davbo> Ah, we're not meeting then?

[21:29] < MS-> No, we'll have to rearrange for another time.

[21:29] < Davbo> Okay, sounds good

[21:29] < Davbo> rather not be thursday or friday though

[21:29] < Chong-> mhrd-home: I have check them, but have not fine one way :(

[21:32] *** Chong- found he had misunstood MS-' question at the beginning.

[21:32] < mhrd-home> afaik there isn'tt

[21:32] < Davbo> it's fine to miss this week out if that would be preferable for you MS-

[21:33] < Davbo> my final 2 deadlines (a presentation and a poster session) are on Thurs and Fri respectively

[21:33] < mhrd-home> davbo: good luck with those :-)

[21:33] < mhrd-home> Chong: topologyviewer was originally deliberately quite simple and is quite old now. ...

[21:34] < MS-> Davbo: Cool.

[21:34] < Chong-> mhrd-home: I see. Thank you very much for your kindly help.

[21:34] < mhrd-home> if you want to modify it to add the facilities you mention then go for it (in a branch or your Sketches dir of course :-) )

[21:34] < Chong-> Davbo: good luck for me too :-)

[21:34] < mhrd-home> I've held off from doing it since MS- has managed to make do so far :-P

[21:34] < Davbo> thanks mhrd-home :)

[21:35] < MS-> We are going to have to rearrange the following week anyway too

[21:35] < Davbo> thanks guys :)

[21:35] < MS-> SInce the following monday is bank holiday

[21:35] < vmlemon_> Tomorrow is Bank Holiday?

[21:35] < MS-> vmlemon_: next week

[21:35] < MS-> not this week :)

[21:36] < vmlemon_> Or next week?

[21:36] < MS-> (26th)

[21:36] *** vmlemon_ assumes that's the 26th

[21:36] < MS-> Davbo: How about tuesday, 11am then?

[21:36] < Chong-> mhrd-home: no problem. After finishing the pink/blue one, I 'll try to extend it.

[21:36] < Davbo> Fine by me MS-

[21:37] < MS-> Chong-: I'll need to change your mentor time as well tomorrow. Can we also change that to tuesday ? say midday>

[21:37] < MS-> ?

[21:37] < MS-> Davbo: Cool :)

[21:37] < Davbo> My MagnaDoodle draws circles now hehe

[21:37] < Chong-> Just make sure it has not the function before extending it :-)

[21:37] < MS-> Davbo: Good start :)

[21:37] < MS-> Is it checked in?

[21:37] < vmlemon_> I thought you just turned the handles to make it draw ;)

[21:37] < Chong-> MS-: midday tueday is fine to me.

[21:38] < MS-> Chong-: excellent

[21:38] < Davbo> not yet, they're fixed size atm, I'm going to change that and get them to scale with mouse movement

[21:39] < MS-> Cool. Checking in often is very much encouraged BTW

[21:39] < MS-> code you put into /Sketches is OK to be broken

[21:39] < MS-> since the only person you affect is yourself

[21:40] < MS-> But it does mean you get feedback like "that new website looks good"

[21:40] < MS-> ;)

[21:40] < Davbo> alright

[21:40] < vmlemon_> I take it that people can nab bits from other parts of /Sketches to toy with and distroy, too? ;)

[21:41] *** MS- is paranoid about hardware crashes

[21:41] < vmlemon_> *destroy

[21:41] < MS-> vmlemon_: Absolutey

[21:41] < MS-> Matt's had all sorts of interesting stuff in his area

[21:41] < MS-> Jason's "stolen"/extended stuff directly from my /Sketches area

[21:41] < MS-> which is cool

[21:42] < MS-> matt's borrowed stuff from mine

[21:42] < MS-> etc

[21:42] < MS-> I still keep on wondering what to do with the Gesture Recognition code :)

[21:43] *** Davbo realises why his check-in isn't working

[21:43] < Davbo> ummm

[21:43] < Davbo> ! is an escape character?

[21:44] < MS-> ! is special as far as the shell is concerned, yes

[21:44] < MS-> It's officially annoying

[21:44] < MS-> :)

[21:44] < Davbo> I see! :)

[21:44] < Davbo> heh, never encountered that befoer

[21:44] < Davbo> rare you learn something new in bash lol

[21:44] < MS-> :)

[21:45] < Davbo> oh MS- if you wanna use it, press "C" for circles and "L" for lines

[21:46] < MS-> Woo! It does two things now :)

[21:46] < Davbo> heh, gonna make it so you can click and hold to make custom sized ones

[21:47] < MS-> :)

[21:47] < MS-> I'm all in favour of small steps that work over big ones that don't :)

[21:48] < vmlemon_> With a secret "T-Mobile Pink" mode? ;)

[21:48] < Davbo> Heh, I don't wanna get locked up for using the RGB code for Magenta vmlemon_ :P

[21:48] < Davbo> ;-)

[21:48] < vmlemon_> Hah

[21:50] < MS-> Davbo: Indeed, someone may be tempted to port magnadoodle to a mobile if that happened, and we'd never hear the end of it

[21:50] < MS-> ;-) :-D

[21:50] < Davbo> haha

[21:50] < Davbo> :)

[21:50] < vmlemon_> A *knitted*, T-Mobile Pink mobile, even? ;)

[21:50] *** vmlemon_ reckons that a colour would definitely fall under "fair use" or "fair dealling"

[21:51] *** MS- reckons that that anyone who thinks they can trademark a colour needs whacking with a cluestick

[21:51] < vmlemon_> I suppose there's UPS Brown

[21:51] < vmlemon_> (Good look trying to paint your delivery van with that)

[21:51] < vmlemon_> (At least in the USA)

[21:52] < vmlemon_> Does this mean I should erase the Python interpreter from my phone now? ;)

[21:53] < Davbo> "This colour is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution License" :P

[21:55] < vmlemon_> A toxic colour? (It ends up putting anything it's painted on under the same license as the colour)

[21:55] < vmlemon_> Never mind lead-based paint

[21:55] < vmlemon_> ;)

[21:55] < vmlemon_> Hmm, can you GPLv3 a colour?

[21:55] < vmlemon_> Now that would be worrying

[21:55] *** vmlemon_ goes to trademark the letter "Z" ;)

[21:58] < vmlemon_> I wonder if prisms and rainbows would be prior art

[22:01] < mhrd-home> colorimetry is a deceptively complex subject - Pantone and other make huge amounts of money out of it ... so I almost wouldn't be surprised if its deemed by some as intellectual property :-)

[22:02] < vmlemon_> Good point about Pantone

[22:02] < vmlemon_> I know they're fairly aggressive when it comes to people using their colour names

[22:03] < MS-> mhrd-home: no it's not that sort of thing

[22:03] < MS-> t-mobile claim to own magenta

[22:03] < vmlemon_> (which is one of the things stopping people from having Pantone support in Open Source software)

[22:03] < MS-> ie RGB value 0xFF00FF

[22:03] < vmlemon_> I think they have a patent on a system called Hexachrome for describing colour mixes, too

[22:03] < vmlemon_> (Similar sort of thing to RGB and CMYK)

[22:04] < vmlemon_> Isn't it just a very specific shade of magenta?

[22:04] < vmlemon_> And not magenta in general?

[22:04] < MS-> mhrd-home: http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/31/deutsche-telekom-t-mobile-demands-engadget-mobile-discontinue/

[22:05] < MS-> http://www.engadget.com/photos/deutsche-telekom-t-mobile-demands-engadget-mobile-discontinue-using-the-color-magenta/725824/

[22:05] < MS-> Latter actually includes the text

[22:09] < MS-> http://www.t-mobile.com/Templates/Popup.aspx?PAsset=Ftr_Ftr_Copyright -- "... and the color magenta are registered and/or unregistered trademarks of Deutsche Telekom"

[22:09] < vmlemon_> I think ICI have trademarked the (proprietary/marketing) names of certain shades of Dulux paint, although not the colours themselves

[22:09] < vmlemon_> and I think certain car companies do that, too

[22:10] < mhrd-home> hmm, I'd say they'd only have a legal case if it was the same specific shade

[22:10] < MS-> As I recall paint companies have always used names, rather than colours for enforcement purposes

[22:10] < MS-> I'd say they don't have a case myself. It's a clear case of overstepping the mark

[22:11] < vmlemon_> I think that's how Pantone manage to do things, too

[22:11] < MS-> I could claim the colour purple tomorrow, but so what?

[22:11] < vmlemon_> although they also have several patents

[22:11] < vmlemon_> Which shade of purple?

[22:11] < MS-> vmlemon_: Yep, they don't claim that the colours themselves will be exact

[22:11] < vmlemon_> (The most important question)

[22:11] < MS-> They claim that they will look the same relative to each other

[22:11] < MS-> IIRC

[22:11] < vmlemon_> Don't they say that the colours will fade in the booklets, and that they won't be accurate then?

[22:12] < vmlemon_> Although I haven't read the Pantone swatchbooks

[22:12] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[22:13] < MS-> I have no idea, but as I understand it they just claim that they will look the same relative to each other

[22:13] < vmlemon_> Aren't most of the colours referred to in brand manuals provided as PMS/Pantone values, anyway?

[22:14] < Davbo> Had to administer a router firmware upgrade :)

[22:14] < vmlemon_> Which should (in theory) help in things like that

[22:15] < MS-> No idea :)

[22:15] < vmlemon_> Or at least I've noticed in several corporate brand documents I've came across

[22:16] < vmlemon_> (Sun and NTT DoCoMo come to mind)

[22:16] < vmlemon_> Hah, http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/18/asus-and-msi-have-some-splaining-to-do/

[22:18] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[22:18] < MS-> heh

[22:18] < mhrd-home> tsk tsk :)

[22:19] < vmlemon__> Damn, stupid PPP session terminated

[22:22] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[22:23] < vmlemon_> The joys of stock photos and Photoshop ;)

[22:24] < vmlemon_> Night

[22:24] < mhrd-home> night vmlemon_

[22:35] < MS-> night all,

[22:35] *** MS- has parted #kamaelia

[23:04] *** mhrd-home packs it in too

[23:04] *** mhrd-home has parted #kamaelia

[23:14] < Chong-> me too. Gotta sleep. night, all.

[23:14] *** Chong- has parted #kamaelia

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