[06:44] < Lawouach> morning

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[10:18] < vmlemon_> Hi

[10:24] < Lawouach> hello

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[10:29] *** Lawouach puts his CD of Little Barrie - We are little barrie

[10:29] < Lawouach> Groovy style today :)

[10:30] < Lawouach> http://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Are-Little-Barrie/dp/B0006V5QIE

[10:30] < Lawouach> I advise you guys to listen to that album.

[10:31] < Lawouach> It'll make your day :)

[11:34] < vmlemon_> Ugh, how classy... Sending a raw 10KB JPEG image through D-BUS

[11:38] < vmlemon_> Hah, http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=554734&cid=23429104

[12:08] < ms-away> greetings

[12:08] *** ms-away is now known as ms-

[12:10] < vmlemon_> Hi ms-

[12:18] *** ms- has just realised a real benefit of moving editting of the wiki *off* sourceforge and making that a static mirror

[12:18] < ms-> it means that the website history wouldn't be there, which simplifies history issues

[12:19] < ms-> (such as spam continuing to exist in versions)

[13:26] *** vmlemon_ wonders if he needs to install libsalsa to get RedButton working...

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[13:57] < Lawouach> true that

[14:25] < Lawouach> http://zattoo.com/en/tv-channels?country=gb

[14:25] < Lawouach> nice service

[14:38] < vmlemon__> Hah,"If you can fit 2 nics in them, they'll make excellent firewall appliances. Most laptops will come with a NIC built-in. Add a second PC-MCIA nic. If they're P2/P3, they might even have a modem built in. You can add fax-capabilities onto the server. Heck, if you're ambitious enough, set it up as a PBX. Have fun automatically routing telemarketers to an eternal on-hold "Chocolate Rain" message. Automatically reply to fax-spam with Hello.JPG."

[14:45] < Lawouach> I wish I could make sense of what you just said without context. But no chance.

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[16:14] < j_baker> ms- I think the webserver code should be WSGI compliant now (although there may be a few more environment variables that could be added).

[16:27] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[16:31] < vmlemon_> Hmm, http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=555252&cid=23443850

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[16:55] < ms-> j_baker: sounds good

[16:55] < ms-> I'll try and take a look at some point when I can :)

[16:57] < ms-> Lawouach: That service has rather dubious legality. Some people think they're claiming the "cable service provider" cop-out, but that only applies to cable service providers with a license (as far as I can tell). It's unknown at present (by many people curious) whether they do or not...

[16:58] < ms-> After all, there's lots of things the BBC simply can't do like that because the BBC doesn't have the rights, so how they've got them... ?

[16:58] < ms-> In more fun news though, whomever decided to threaten legal action against that knitter has been overridden or had a change of heart it seems

[16:59] < ms-> http://news.google.co.uk/news?ned=uk&hl=en&ned=uk&ie=UTF-8&ncl=1213371204

[17:00] < ms-> Not only that, it's possible you'll be able to buy your own knitted adipose instead :D

[17:28] < vmlemon__> The Zango TV thing, or whatever it was called?

[17:30] < vmlemon__> Anyone tried Joost?

[17:31] < vmlemon__> I had an invitation to beta test it, but I could never use it since it required a machine with Windows XP

[17:31] < vmlemon__> and it wouldn't work under VMware Workstation, when I did get round to testing it, because of some DirectX-related stuff

[17:34] < ms-> Joost doesn't work on Linux IIRC, so I've not tried that

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[17:35] < ms-> Not tried zappo TV either since it won't work better than the TV in the living room :)

[17:35] *** ms- goes for munch

[17:35] *** ms- is now known as ms-away

[17:43] < vmlemon__> Nice to hear that they dropped the legal action against the knitter

[17:45] < vmlemon__> Hmm, "A BBC spokesman said that it was "never interested in stifling fan creativity in any way"."

[17:50] < vmlemon__> o.O http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3941545.ece

[17:53] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

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[18:19] < vmlemon_> Hmm, anyone here familiar with DVD-RW discs?

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[20:26] < Chong-> Hi vmlemon

[20:27] < vmlemon_> Hi Chong-

[20:27] < vmlemon_> (and others, if they haven't said anything ;) )

[20:27] < Chong-> vmlemon: one question. Do you know which file in linux defines the config of keyboard?

[20:28] < vmlemon_> Hmm

[20:29] < Chong-> I used control tools to do it before, but the setting lost every time it restarts.

[20:30] < vmlemon_> I assume /etc/termcap, although this stumped me ages ago, when I wanted to change the console keyboard layout :(

[20:30] < Chong-> Thanks. I will try it.

[20:31] < vmlemon_> That said, I still haven't managed to figure out how it's supposed to be doable

[20:31] < Chong-> So, it's not under desktop config. for example, .kde/share/config/...

[20:32] < vmlemon_> You want it for virtual consoles/TTYs?

[20:32] < vmlemon_> Or for X11 stuff?

[20:32] < vmlemon_> For X11, just use kcontrol, or the equivalent tool for your desktop environment

[20:32] < vmlemon_> As for TTYs, I have no idea how to change it

[20:33] < vmlemon_> (Seeing as it isn't integrated in any way :()

[20:35] < Chong-> I want to change the keyboard layout from British to American

[20:36] < Chong-> it should be within keyboard layout of /etc/termcap, but it's not intuitive to modify.

[20:36] < vmlemon_> You could try searching in KControl for "Keyboard Layout"

[20:38] < Chong-> I have use it to config, but the setting lost once computer restarts

[20:38] < vmlemon_> Ouch

[20:38] < vmlemon_> Not sure if changing it as root would make a difference

[20:39] < vmlemon_> Other than that, I'm well and truly lost :|

[20:39] < ms-away> which distro?

[20:39] < Chong-> I need root to run it. So it should not be the problem.

[20:40] < Chong-> opensuse11

[20:41] < ms-away> In which case, you should be doing stuff from inside YaST

[20:41] < ms-away> You got to YaST inside X

[20:41] < ms-away> Then there's an option "keyboard"

[20:42] < ms-away> which has a nice GUI :)

[20:42] < Chong-> yep. I have done it before, but the setting lost after it restarts.

[20:43] < Chong-> yes. more convenient than other distro

[20:43] < ms-away> Yast shouldn't lose it

[20:43] < Chong-> So, I think about changing the config file.

[20:43] < ms-away> since that actually changes: /etc/sysconfig/keyboard

[20:43] < ms-away> And then runs

[20:44] < ms-away> /sbin/SuSEconfig

[20:44] < ms-away> *however*

[20:44] < Chong-> Maybe some bug with YaST

[20:44] < ms-away> as vmlemon_ indicated there are multiple places keyboard settings are set

[20:44] < ms-away> No

[20:45] < ms-away> That one controls the underlying hardware one - that you get on a virtual terminal

[20:45] < ms-away> X windows itself has another

[20:45] < ms-away> and then KDE itself also has another

[20:45] *** vmlemon_ wonders why this sort of stuff is so inconsistent

[20:45] < ms-away> When you install initially YaST expects you to pick the right one

[20:46] < ms-away> vmlemon_: It's probably due to the modular nature of unix and people thinking "ahh, I want to add this piece of info, but it doesn't fit their format"

[20:46] < ms-away> So they invent their own location & file format

[20:46] < ms-away> Chong-: I suspect that what you may've run to change the keyboard settings was something called the Control Centre

[20:47] < ms-away> which is KDE's place for it

[20:47] < Chong-> yeah. So complex.

[20:47] < ms-away> If you pick the right keyboard initially, it's fine :)

[20:48] < Chong-> yes. The initial is not right, so it become a trouble now :-)

[20:48] < ms-away> However, I suspect actually, you don't want to set the keyboard using those thinking about it

[20:48] < ms-away> I suspect what you DO actually want

[20:49] < ms-away> is Control Panel .. Regional & Accessibility .. Keyboard Layout

[20:49] < ms-away> Check "Enable keyboard layouts"

[20:50] < ms-away> After selecting the keyboard(s) you want to use hit "apply"

[20:50] < ms-away> The advantage of that is that you can then type using multiple layouts

[20:50] < ms-away> ыворалорыв р

[20:50] < ms-away> Руддщ

[20:51] < Chong-> I see.

[20:51] < vmlemon_> Yay, Russian...

[20:52] < ms-away> پوپدنتیبال ناتنساتنیسبا تنلیسالیکبلاتبی

[20:52] < ms-away> سنيمتبنمستب ستسيش

[20:52] < Chong-> Arabian?

[20:52] < ms-away> ОЛЫВА ЫФЛОВАР ЫФАЫФ

[20:52] < vmlemon_> Arabic...

[20:52] < ms-away> ظسبسشبیسشب

[20:52] *** vmlemon_ wonders if it means anything

[20:52] < ms-away> arabic

[20:52] < ms-away> vmlemon_: hope not

[20:52] < ms-away> :)

[20:53] < ms-away> With *that* if you forget to hit "apply" that will lose the settings

[20:54] < ms-away> མཤཙམབབབམམསསས

[20:54] < ms-away> ྪ༔༽

[20:54] < ms-away> ྪྪྪྫྫྫ

[20:54] < vmlemon_> Hindi?

[20:54] < vmlemon_> Punjabi?

[20:54] < ms-away> Bhutan

[20:54] < vmlemon_> Aah

[20:54] < ms-away> חחללחלחצזסמבזצמב'וןטן'שגגג

[20:55] < ms-away> I think that's hebrew (Israel)

[20:55] < Chong-> I believe I had and it works in current session even after closing the control center, but it resets after computer restarts.

[20:55] < vmlemon_> It does Korean?

[20:56] < ms-away> jkkljkljs dkfjsa fsadfasdf

[20:56] < ms-away> Doesn't look like korean to me

[20:56] < Chong-> ms-away: how do you input these languages? I think the keyboard layout only change the layout of keyboard?

[20:57] < Chong-> it's absolutely not korean :-)

[20:57] < ms-away> After adding them,

[20:58] < ms-away> It adds a little flag into the thingy

[20:58] < ms-away> dock? systray? dunno what you call it :)

[20:58] < ms-away> anyway you click on that and you can cycle through

[20:59] < ms-away> This is odd: ົໄຳພະິີຣນຍບລໜງວສາ່້ເດກຫັ

[20:59] < ms-away> ຜປແອຜຶືືຶຶຜືຶືຶຶອ

[20:59] < ms-away> ືທມມມທທມຶມຶໃປ

[21:04] < Chong-> interesting :-)

[21:04] < ms-away> ๆไำพะัีรนยบบฟหกดเ้่าสวผปแอิืทมมйцукенгшфывапролдضصثقفغعهخشسيبلاتنඇඑරතයඋඉඔඅසදෆගහජකඤඳචවබනමњерتےءیهپتےءجطبنрнголдgतयुियुिुयतगहजजहबनगहु७यत४५६७८िुजဂဟဗعهخخهعغاتن

[21:04] < Chong-> How do you do it, ms?

[21:04] < ms-away> гнэжэнгшiuິີຣນີິະенгшuytкенгiuytראטוןםןוטארקאטו

[21:04] < vmlemon_> Yay, mojibake in the middle characters

[21:05] < ms-away> Chong-: As I said - in keyboard layout enable multiple layouts

[21:05] < ms-away> add keyboard layouts and hit apply

[21:05] < ms-away> then click on little flag icon to change the keyboard as needed

[21:05] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: dance

[21:05] Reply: does the macarena

[21:08] < Chong-> my 'keyboard layout' has not the option of multiple layouts.

[21:08] < vmlemon_> ¥ãý

[21:08] < Chong-> it only has primary setup and additional layouts.

[21:09] < ms-away> Multiple keyboard layouts have been in SuSE for a looong time

[21:09] < ms-away> I'd suggest rummaging

[21:10] < ms-away> But definitely pre open suse 11

[21:10] < ms-away> Since at least 9.0, probably earlier

[21:11] < Chong-> بشبلهخحصصصصة.زورمبيشطحفبثش

[21:11] < ms-away> woo

[21:12] < Chong-> got it. thanks, ms.

[21:12] < ms-away> cool

[21:12] < Chong-> It's in additional layout.

[21:12] *** vmlemon_ wonders if kamaeliabot mangles non-Roman characters in it's logfiles

[21:13] < Chong-> I think it's multiple layout enabled by default.

[21:13] < vmlemon_> 謙譲語ですよ

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[21:14] < Chong-> vmlemon_: Japanese?

[21:14] < vmlemon_> Yes, although I don't know what it means

[21:15] < vmlemon_> Hah, [19:35] < kaiwaig> ShadowHntr: I know :P its just that I've been around Apple users - boy are they whining pratts; whinging that the smallest hum is the equivilant of an elephant tap dancing

[21:15] < Chong-> do you input yourself or copy it from somewhere?

[21:15] < vmlemon_> Found it in an IRC log...

[21:16] < vmlemon_> I did have a Japanese IME installed ages ago, though (on another machine)

[21:16] < Chong-> I see.

[21:24] < vmlemon_> o.O "Tunepimp (MusicBrainz tagging library) returned the following error: "Fingerprinting of .mp3 files is not supported."."

[21:25] *** vmlemon_ is sure it worked with MP3 files befote

[21:25] < vmlemon_> *before

[21:25] < vmlemon_> even

[21:27] *** vmlemon_ wished there was an open Wi-Fi AP here...

[21:28] < vmlemon_> Or at least UMTS (and changing operators doesn't count)

[21:32] < vmlemon_> o.O [21:28] < e^ipi> CosmicDJ: why? you know how most harddrives are destroyed? normal use.

[21:34] *** vmlemon_ has just thought of a gimmick for the first person to complete their GSoC project (although he couldn't provide it) - a knitted Kamaelia cat ;)

[21:41] *** ms-away may be able to do that

[21:41] < ms-away> Not tried that, but crochet would be easier

[21:42] *** vmlemon_ intended it as a joke/as a continuation of the meme, but more power to anyone who can pull it off ;)

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[22:05] < Chong-> ms-away: believe it or not, it return to the original setting after restarts.

[22:06] < Chong-> Although /sbin/SuSEconfig is YAST_KEYBOARD="english-us,pc104"

[22:07] < Chong-> the real layout is still english-uk

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[22:07] < Chong-> even rerun /sbin/SuSEconfig doesn't help.

[22:09] < vmlemon_> Hmm interesting, not only can I connect to Google Groups over SSL here (although I can't over plain HTTP without needing to use something like Coral Cache or some other proxy), but it actually seems to load faster for some reason...

[22:09] *** vmlemon_ assumes that there isn't additional proxying going on in the network for SSL transactions

[22:12] < Chong-> probably proxy takes some time.

[22:12] < vmlemon_> I know that they do pass stuff off into other proxies on the ISP side of things

[22:13] < vmlemon_> (Once for checking the site against some blacklist, and then to another machine for producing reduced quality versions of embedded images)

[22:13] < vmlemon_> I'm still sure that stuff would actually be faster, without the tampering going on in the network

[22:14] < Chong-> should be :-)

[22:15] < vmlemon_> I assume that requests going to 1.2.3.4 (which I can't ping or traceroute) has something to do with it

[22:17] < Chong-> What do you mean "to 1.2.3.4 "?

[22:18] *** ms-away has parted #kamaelia

[22:19] < Chong-> try to restart computer again. see you later.

[22:19] *** Chong- has parted #kamaelia

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[22:29] < Chong-> ah, still the same, reset after restart.

[22:31] < Chong-> weird

[22:57] < vmlemon_> Hah, http://paster.dazjorz.com/?a=rawpaste&p=2980

[23:17] < Chong-> gonna sleep. night, all.

[23:17] *** Chong- has parted #kamaelia

[23:18] < vmlemon_> Night