[06:49] < Lawouach_> morning

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[10:44] < vmlemon_> Hi

[10:46] < Lawouach> hello vmlemon

[10:49] < vmlemon_> They're killing the poor hexagons? ;)

[10:50] < Lawouach> ?

[10:51] < vmlemon_> It was mentioned in the IRC minutes that were pushed to Groups

[10:51] *** vmlemon_ assumes that they refer to the hexagons on the front of the Kamaelia homepage...

[11:07] < vmlemon_> Lawouach: The stuff on your blog about XMPP/Jabber seems interesting

[11:07] < Lawouach> It is ;)

[11:09] < vmlemon_> Hah, "“An apple a day keeps the doctor away,” and thus we've added an apple to your breakfast. Since recently, the daily build breakfast system generates a binary for Mac OS X using the latest development snapshot of Coccinella. "

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[13:20] < Davbo> Afternoon all

[13:21] < Chong-> hi Davbo

[13:22] < vmlemon_> Hi Chong- and Davbo

[13:22] < Chong-> afternoon vmlemon_

[13:28] < vmlemon_> Ouch, http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/microsoft-learn-from-apple-II.media/vista.png

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[14:10] < vmlemon_> Hah, http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=553588&cid=23416312

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[15:55] < Lawouach_> goto ho;e

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[16:24] < Lawouach> hello

[16:24] < vmlemon_> Hi Lawouach

[16:25] < MS-> hi

[16:25] < mhrd> hi

[16:25] < Davbo> Hey all.

[16:25] < vmlemon_> Hi Davbo

[16:39] < Davbo> I got my book from Google today :)

[16:40] < MS-> Book?

[16:40] < MS-> You get a book?

[16:40] < MS-> what's the book?

[16:40] < vmlemon_> A book!

[16:42] < Davbo> it's this - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beautiful-Code-Leading-Programmers-Practice/dp/0596510047/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210956139&sr=8-1

[16:43] < Davbo> looks pretty cool :)

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[16:47] < Davbo> Looks like a good choice when they have to cater to such a diverse field of programmers

[16:47] < Davbo> there's a section on concurrency too :)

[16:50] < vmlemon_> What Olinda isn’t is a far-future concept piece or a smoke-and-mirrors prototype. There’s no hidden Mac Mini–it’s a standalone, fully operational, social, digital radio.

[16:50] < vmlemon_> Damn, pasted it into the wrong channel

[16:51] < MS-> Ah, beautiful code

[16:51] < MS-> that

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[16:59] < MS-> (hm, that sounds more dismissive than inteded)

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[17:39] < Davbo> It looks interesting MS-

[17:39] < Davbo> You read it?

[17:40] < MS-> I've read some bits which are online in various places

[17:45] < MS-> (legally available online I note :) )

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[17:49] < Chong-> cool. I seems a wonderful book.

[17:50] < Chong-> But it's a pity I have not received mine yet.

[17:50] < Chong-> MS-: I have delievered my agreement to BBC Manchester today.

[17:51] < MS-> ahh, cool

[17:51] < Chong-> :-)

[17:51] < MS-> I got Pablos in the post this morning

[17:51] < MS-> I haven't got yours yet because we all got sent home early

[17:52] < Chong-> np

[17:52] < vmlemon__> o.O http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article3926859.ece

[17:53] < MS-> Yeah, that baffles me

[17:53] < vmlemon__> "Ahhh, modern Britain. Where you get stabbed to death in the street and sued for knitting!"

[17:55] *** mhrd is now known as mhrd-afk

[17:56] < Lawouach> The problem is that they can't act otherwise no matter how they look or feel.

[17:56] < Lawouach> If they agreed to let that one pass they'd face much much more.

[17:56] < MS-> Lawouach: indeed

[17:56] < Lawouach> Don't blame the players. Blame the rules ;)

[17:56] < MS-> They could've been less heavy handed though

[17:57] < Lawouach> Yeah certainly.

[17:57] < MS-> They could've said something like "Hey that's really cool but if we just leave that up on your site, we'd have to ask you to take it down - how about hosting it on the BBC website instead?"

[17:58] < MS-> They could've enforced a no commerical use clause then

[17:58] < MS-> ANd then if anyone wanted to use it for that paid her royalties for it

[17:58] < MS-> Or something

[17:58] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[18:00] < Lawouach> MS-: well I agree but then again what would have happend the day they would have decided to start selling similar items. Anyway that was a sad way of handling it. Specially coming from a public service.

[18:00] < MS-> Indeed, they could've handled it better

[18:01] < Lawouach> I want a pizza

[18:03] *** MS- hands Lawouach a pizza

[18:03] < MS-> (it's knitted I'm afraid)

[18:03] < Lawouach> If it was that easy.

[18:04] < Lawouach> Hah! :)

[18:04] < vmlemon_> Hah

[18:04] *** MS- gets hungry too

[18:04] *** MS- is now known as ms-away

[18:04] *** vmlemon_ wonders if the pizza shop owner will sue MS- for knitting a pizza that looked like one they baked ;)

[18:04] < ms-away> :)

[18:04] < ms-away> heh

[18:07] *** vmlemon_ is playing with the BBC Personalised Track Notifications for XMPP tech demo and a D-BUS based IM client

[18:08] *** vmlemon_ reckons that the "status data" (really a pseudo-Now Playing ticker) could be fashioned into some sort of CLI tool or desktop "widget"

[18:08] < vmlemon_> (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/05/were_playing_your_song_persona.shtml and http://live.gnome.org/Empathy)

[18:12] < Lawouach> guess who's seel20 commenting :)

[18:13] < Lawouach> I've already subscribed and playing with it via my XMPP lib.

[18:13] < Lawouach> I was actually contacted just 10 minutes ago by Matt :)

[18:13] < vmlemon_> The nice thing is that you can snarf D-BUS and see the update stuff in a raw string - example at http://paster.dazjorz.com/?a=rawpaste&p=2976

[18:14] < Lawouach> yeah that's a typical XMPP message stanza

[18:14] < vmlemon_> I'm not too familiar with XMPP, but it looks like raw XML also gets sent across for certain things

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[18:15] < vmlemon_> (although I don't know if it's Empathy that does that, or Pidgin)

[18:15] < Lawouach> what do you mean by raw XML?

[18:15] < vmlemon_> Entire XML messages wrapped into a D-BUS "string"

[18:15] < Lawouach> I assume that's the way you'd do it yes

[18:16] < Lawouach> XMPP is XML anyway

[18:16] < vmlemon_> (not serialised into a D-BUS object, as it appears was done with the example I pasted)

[18:16] < Lawouach> I see

[18:16] *** vmlemon_ goes to see how Pidgin behaves

[18:17] < vmlemon_> I know that for MSN Messenger/Windows Live Messenger's protocol, raw over-the-wire stuff is put out onto D-BUS (including authentication)

[18:17] < Lawouach> I don't believe Pidgin uses DBUS for XMPP

[18:18] < Lawouach> It speaks XMPP natively.

[18:18] < Lawouach> Wouldn't understand why it would use DBUS.

[18:19] < vmlemon_> If I remember correctly, Empathy reuses a specific framework, which in turn uses another one

[18:19] < vmlemon_> Although I can't remember what the two frameworks where, somewhat confusingly

[18:20] < vmlemon_> Pidgin reckons that the BBC prototype thing emits "PubSub" and "radio2xmpp" Status data

[18:22] < vmlemon_> Aah, Galago and Telepathy were the frameworks that it used

[18:22] < vmlemon_> It looks like Pidgin is the more verbose one when it comes to spitting stuff out over D-BUS, somewhat interestingly...

[18:23] < vmlemon_> Although it doesn't do status updates as well as Epiphany for some reason

[18:29] *** vmlemon_ never knew how Google Mail notifications over XMPP worked, until now...

[18:30] < Lawouach> XMPP is da shit man :)

[18:30] < vmlemon_> Hah

[18:30] < vmlemon_> It's something I've had somewhat passive interest in for a while

[18:31] < vmlemon_> Although trying to do stuff with it is another matter

[18:31] < Lawouach> some like AMQP too but in a different context. http://www.rabbitmq.com/faq.html

[18:31] < vmlemon_> I did run a Jabber server as an experiment ages ago, though

[18:34] < vmlemon_> Although "security" is probably the first thing people will yell, I find it quite annoying that Google Talk encrypts data, since it's difficult to figure out what's actually going on "over-the-wire"...

[18:34] < vmlemon_> I don't think you can disable it in non-Google clients, either

[18:34] < Lawouach> You find encryption of your personal data annoying?

[18:34] < Lawouach> That's odd.

[18:35] < Lawouach> And you can easily find out what's going on over the wire using an XMPP aware library

[18:35] < Lawouach> that will use decrypt it for you anyway.

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[18:35] < Lawouach> You can't indeed prevent it against a google server because it requires it (TLS)

[18:36] < vmlemon_> I don't mind it from a security point of view

[18:36] < vmlemon_> Although the obfuscation (through encryption bit) irks me from a low-level-interest point of view

[18:37] < Lawouach> again it's easy to workaround if you use the right library

[18:37] < Lawouach> Sure if you just want to fire Wireshark...

[18:37] < Lawouach> won't do much good

[18:37] < Lawouach> mind you if you do install ejabberd on your machine and run pidgin against it, you can force clear text communication

[18:38] < Lawouach> you'll see what happens then

[18:38] < vmlemon_> I suppose that dbus-monitor and a suitably verbose client is good enough, until I can try to hack some code together

[18:39] < vmlemon_> (Although that would involve having a large number of tuits handy, and trying to learn enough of some language to do network I/O :|)

[18:44] < vmlemon_> Seen SIMPLE/SIP and IMPS?

[18:44] < Lawouach> ?

[18:45] < vmlemon_> The former being some bolt-ons to the SIP VoIP protocol, and the latter being originally designed for mobile IM systems

[18:46] < vmlemon_> http://tools.ietf.org/wg/simple/ and http://www.openmobilealliance.org/Technical/release_program/imps_v1_3a.aspx respectively provide some info

[18:47] < vmlemon_> The RabbitMQ/AMQP thing looks interesting, though

[18:50] < vmlemon_> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIMPLE and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMPS, too)

[18:53] *** vmlemon_ wonders what the options in "< presence>< priority>1< /priority>< c xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/caps' node='http://pidgin.im/caps' ver='2.3.1' ext='moodn nickn tunen avatar'/>< /presence>" refer to (in the ext= attribute)

[18:55] < vmlemon_> Yay, they've documented the Google Mail Notification stuff

[18:56] < Lawouach> supported extensions

[18:56] < Lawouach> dude you might want to actually read the spec :)

[18:56] < Lawouach> that could help

[18:57] < vmlemon_> OK, I'll have a look now

[18:57] < vmlemon_> A Good Point®, though ;)

[19:01] < vmlemon_> Crikey, where do I start?

[19:02] < vmlemon_> "Jabber Server" and "Jabber Client", I assume?

[19:03] < Lawouach> what do you want to do?

[19:03] < Lawouach> Installing ejabberd as a server locally (not even as a root user) would be a good start probably

[19:04] < Lawouach> Its default settings are good enough.

[19:04] < vmlemon_> OK

[19:04] < Lawouach> Then use a good Jabber client like Pidgin, Kopete, Tkabber or Coccinela

[19:05] *** vmlemon_ is trying to get a rough idea of how it works, and how extensions fit in...

[19:06] < vmlemon_> Downloading the server now

[19:10] < Lawouach> mind you

[19:10] < Lawouach> nah

[19:10] < Lawouach> well food

[19:11] < vmlemon_> It should Just Work?

[19:11] *** vmlemon_ hopes so, seeing as it was a real pain in the butt to install, last time he tried...

[19:13] *** vmlemon_ reads the manual whilst waiting for it to download

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[19:22] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

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[19:25] < j_baker> Lawouach: ping?

[19:37] < Davbo> j_baker: fyi (20:10:54) Lawouach: well food

[19:38] < j_baker> Thanks, Davbo

[19:38] < Davbo> np

[19:38] < Davbo> I'm Lawouach's part-time PA ;)

[19:39] *** vmlemon_ goes to make coffee, and hunt for something to eat...

[19:39] < vmlemon_> *hunts

[19:39] < Lawouach> pong

[19:40] < Lawouach> i'm popular tonight

[19:41] < j_baker> I think I may not need your help anymore actually. I was going to ask your advice on trying to get the full HTTP request to the WSGI application.

[19:42] < j_baker> But I've pretty much decided there's no point in trying to screw around with the HTTP parser.

[19:42] < Lawouach> so what are you gonna do?

[19:42] < j_baker> So I think the easiest way is going to be just to rebuild the request from the WSGI request handler.

[19:43] < Lawouach> sounds reasonable at firth sight

[19:44] < j_baker> I was going to try to just send the full body of the text with the request dictionary, but that's probably going to require some major changes to the way the HTTP parser code works.

[19:45] < j_baker> And much as I'd like to clean up that code, my first priority is my project.

[19:50] < Lawouach> j_baker: I think that makes sense

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[19:57] < vmlemon_> Ouch, 20:50:11 (1.31 KB/s) - Read error at byte 2436484/8119724 (Connection timed out). Retrying.

[19:57] < Lawouach> vmlemon_: while downloading ejabberd?

[19:57] < vmlemon_> Yes

[19:58] < vmlemon_> It's decided to restart from the beginning, after getting 30% :*

[19:58] < Lawouach> right

[19:58] < vmlemon_> :(

[19:58] < Lawouach> okay

[19:58] *** vmlemon_ hates wget

[19:58] < Lawouach> pm

[19:58] < vmlemon_> I'll download it on my remote account with SSH and FTP it over, since it's probably much more reliable

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[20:21] < Lawouach> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lich59xsjik&feature=related

[20:21] < Lawouach> love it

[20:26] < j_baker> So has anyone ever tried opening up an external hard drive that they bought from a retail place?

[20:27] < j_baker> Mine went out and they said it was probably the USB bridge.

[20:27] < j_baker> But I lost the receipt to get the warranty work done. :(

[20:28] < vmlemon_> Ouch

[20:29] < j_baker> I'm just curious if it's just going to be a standard IDE or SATA hard drive so I can put it inside my computer.

[20:29] < vmlemon_> I'd assume that it would he a standard IDE disk

[20:30] < Lawouach> Most of them are.

[20:30] < vmlemon_> I think you can do the same with the optical drives in external burners, too

[20:32] < j_baker> Sweet.

[20:32] < j_baker> My warranty's useless anyway, so I might as well give it a try.

[20:33] < vmlemon_> I wouldn't recommend it, but you could theoretically recycle an external CD burner as a HDD enclosure, depending on the internals of it

[20:33] < j_baker> Or I could buy a hard drive enclosure and use it externally. :)

[20:34] < vmlemon_> Good Point

[20:34] < j_baker> Although that would be a decent idea if I had a CD burner I wasn't using anymore.

[20:34] *** vmlemon_ goes to install ejabberd

[20:35] < vmlemon_> I was tempted to crack open an old Iomega USB one I had, although I think I might have sold it ages ago

[20:36] < j_baker> Heh... well the problem is that they don't exactly make these things easy to open.

[20:36] < vmlemon_> An axe? ;)

[20:37] < vmlemon_> A screwdriver and a kitchen knife?

[20:37] < j_baker> I think a crowbar would work better. :P

[20:37] < vmlemon_> A Dremel?

[20:37] < vmlemon_> That was nice, compared to last time I tried to install ejabberd, and failed miserably

[20:38] < vmlemon_> (I think it didn't come with a graphical installer, then)

[20:39] < vmlemon_> OpenFire was nice, last time I played with it

[20:40] < vmlemon_> Although I'm curious to how ejabberd compares, seeing as I've just managed to install it

[20:41] < j_baker> It's actually a SATA hard drive inside this thing.

[20:41] < vmlemon_> Ugh

[20:42] < vmlemon_> Yay, and it functions

[20:42] < j_baker> It works perfectly for me. I just so happen to have a spare SATA port available.

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[21:17] < Davbo> Evenin' mhrd-home

[21:18] < mhrd-home> greetings

[21:18] *** mhrd-home hunts for the UHF cable round the back of the telly

[21:19] *** Davbo eats his Marmite flavoured crisps

[21:19] < vmlemon_> j_baker: Any luck recovering the data?

[21:21] *** Davbo hates Marmite but loves Marmite crisps.

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[21:23] < Davbo> I'm sure many of you remember me bitching about the group work and how the program didn't even run. Well the group which has to test mine has got in touch with me so I'm going to edit our work and just get my bit running (imports MP3 Files into Java objects) so this next group has something to test

[21:23] < vmlemon__> Meh, damn connection

[21:23] < vmlemon__> Hmm, anyone remember the old dual-socket aerial sockets with both UHF and VHF ports?

[21:23] < vmlemon__> The stuff that cemented your hatered of Java? ;)

[21:23] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[21:23] < vmlemon_> (Or something like that)

[21:23] < Davbo> Hehe

[21:24] < vmlemon_> Did you ever manage to reverse-engineer the blob you had to interface with? ;)

[21:24] < Davbo> This group which is doomed to test our stuff is having a hard time finding something to test

[21:25] < Davbo> (My code has test harnesses in there and they're pretty obvious but hey, i'll make it even more obvious for them)

[21:25] < vmlemon_> Broken Duracell batteries, pre-release versions of Windows Vista and Betamax recorders? ;)

[21:25] *** vmlemon_ hides

[21:25] < Davbo> What blob vmlemon_?

[21:26] < vmlemon_> The search component thing

[21:26] < Davbo> oh

[21:26] < vmlemon_> Unless that was j_baker working on that

[21:26] < Davbo> Yeah that was me :)

[21:26] < mhrd-home> vmlemon__ : seen one, but never lived in the same house as one (UHF/VHF socket)

[21:26] < Davbo> I got that working hehe

[21:27] *** vmlemon_ wonders if the VHF socket was ever used for anything

[21:27] < mhrd-home> betamax - far superiors to VHS for years :)

[21:27] < Davbo> I love that naming convention they use for UHF and VHF

[21:27] < Davbo> so scientific

[21:27] < vmlemon_> Ultra and Very?

[21:28] < Davbo> is there any more?

[21:28] < vmlemon_> Wasn't there VLF?

[21:28] < mhrd-home> TV used to be VHF before it got moved up to UHF - might have been the old 405 line system. could ask people who'll know if you remind me to on Monday :)

[21:28] < vmlemon_> Aah

[21:28] < vmlemon_> Didn't they use it for FM radio in some places, with the weird omnidirectional aerials?

[21:28] < vmlemon_> Or something like that

[21:29] < vmlemon_> (The round ones)

[21:29] < ms-away> Davbo: Well, today they're more scientific

[21:30] < ms-away> High definition, Ultra High Definition, Super Hi-Vision

[21:30] < Davbo> Hehe :)

[21:30] < ms-away> vmlemon_: There was VLW

[21:31] *** ms-away remembers a radio with that on

[21:32] < Davbo> FileZilla is an amazing FTP client, you don't need to do much to be a good FTP client but I love this program.

[21:33] < Davbo> Anyone else use it?

[21:33] < vmlemon_> On Linux?

[21:33] < Davbo> yep

[21:34] *** vmlemon_ uses Konqueror's internal one for uploads, and often wget for downloads

[21:34] *** vmlemon_ is still on a quest for a USB DVB-T adaptor that'll do entire multiplex TS dumps

[21:35] < Davbo> Does USB have enough bandwidth for that vmlemon_?

[21:36] < vmlemon_> As far as I know, USB 2.0 does

[21:36] < vmlemon_> (assuming that you don't watch something at the same time)

[21:37] < Davbo> ah

[21:37] < ms-away> Yes, it's doable

[21:37] < ms-away> You can either ask for the special pid of 0x2000 IIRC or

[21:38] < vmlemon_> I think it's possible to do multiplex dumps, although I'd assume ms-away or mhrd-* would correct me...

[21:38] < ms-away> manually add all the pids until you've got all of them

[21:38] < vmlemon_> And it dumps stuff like subtitles and MHEG-5?

[21:38] < mhrd-home> vmlemon_: we've got the old Win TV Nova-T USB 2 boxes (boxes, not sticks) and they do the whole transport stream

[21:38] < vmlemon_> Aah

[21:39] < mhrd-home> yep - subtitles, mheg etc

[21:39] < vmlemon_> Any idea how much they sell for?

[21:39] < ms-away> And a hauppage win tv nova-t USB 2 rev B8A2 Lot 5005 will work for it

[21:39] < mhrd-home> I'm currently trying to find out why the WinTV stick doesn't seem to do it (with current kamaelia dvb bindings at least)

[21:39] < ms-away> (he says looking at one)

[21:39] < ms-away> mhrd-home: Probably the same reason the freecom ones doesn't - it may simply not support it

[21:39] < mhrd-home> we got ours from ebay

[21:39] < ms-away> You *can* manually add all the pids and that'll work

[21:40] < mhrd-home> ms-away: I'm having problems reading anything, even a subset of TS properly using Kamaelia atm

[21:40] < mhrd-home> ...when using the stick I've got here

[21:40] < ms-away> Looks like this:

[21:40] < ms-away> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hauppauge-Win-TV-Nova-T-USB2-Freeview-Digital-TV_W0QQitemZ320250712845QQihZ011QQcategoryZ3761QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[21:40] < ms-away> mhrd-home: really?

[21:40] < ms-away> odd

[21:40] < mhrd-home> though vlc and mplayer can play a channel fine for me

[21:40] < mhrd-home> yeah

[21:41] < mhrd-home> am just re-reading the linux-dvb api docs

[21:41] < vmlemon_> Tried dvbsnoop?

[21:41] < ms-away> No way of telling that ebay auction is the same

[21:41] < ms-away> But it certainly looks like the same device

[21:41] < mhrd-home> not got dvbsnoop installed atm, so not tried it yet

[21:41] < j_baker> I found something interesting that may solve our packaging problem slightly.

[21:42] < j_baker> http://0install.net/

[21:42] < vmlemon_> What about AutoPackage or Klik?

[21:43] < vmlemon_> Meh, the eBay thing expires tomorrow

[21:44] < vmlemon_> Only 13 quid, but it would mean that I'd have to go through the hassle of setting up an eBay account...

[21:45] < j_baker> AutoPackage sounds interesting as does Klik

[21:45] < mhrd-home> the win-tv stick I'm currently holding ... dmesg output claims it will do whole TS dumping:

[21:45] < mhrd-home> [ 788.225047] usb 5-3: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 2

[21:45] < mhrd-home> [ 788.277964] usb 5-3: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice

[21:45] < mhrd-home> [ 363.839420] dib0700: loaded with support for 7 different device-types

[21:45] < mhrd-home> [ 363.839593] dvb-usb: found a 'Hauppauge Nova-T Stick' in cold state, will try to load a firmware

[21:45] < mhrd-home> [ 363.844709] dvb-usb: downloading firmware from file 'dvb-usb-dib0700-1.10.fw'

[21:45] < mhrd-home> [ 788.696628] dib0700: firmware started successfully.

[21:45] < mhrd-home> [ 788.777586] dvb-usb: found a 'Hauppauge Nova-T Stick' in warm state.

[21:45] < mhrd-home> [ 788.777661] dvb-usb: will pass the complete MPEG2 transport stream to the software demuxer.

[21:45] < mhrd-home> [ 788.779739] DVB: registering new adapter (Hauppauge Nova-T Stick)

[21:45] < mhrd-home> [ 789.081527] DVB: registering frontend 0 (DiBcom 7000PC)...

[21:45] < mhrd-home> [ 473.059615] DiB0070: successfully identified

[21:45] < mhrd-home> [ 473.059723] input: IR-receiver inside an USB DVB receiver as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb5/5-3/input/input9

[21:46] < mhrd-home> [ 473.088828] dvb-usb: schedule remote query interval to 150 msecs.

[21:46] < mhrd-home> [ 473.088835] dvb-usb: Hauppauge Nova-T Stick successfully initialized and connected.

[21:46] < mhrd-home> [ 473.089097] usbcore: registered new interface driver dvb_usb_dib0700

[21:46] < mhrd-home> (sorry about that)

[21:46] < vmlemon_> Interesting

[21:47] < ms-away> I don't suppose you have a dvb-usb-nova-t-usb2-02.fw handy ?

[21:47] < ms-away> nm

[21:48] < ms-away> found on

[21:48] < ms-away> found one

[21:48] < mhrd-home> I think I just renamed my 2-01 firmware to 2-02 and it jumped to life :)

[21:48] < mhrd-home> (different firmware for the stick before you ask :-) )

[21:48] < vmlemon_> Kamaelia: Warez? ;)

[21:50] < mhrd-home> I've found this useful recently: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DVB-T_(USB)

[21:51] < ms-away> bindings still build for me

[21:51] < mhrd-home> there's another variant of those instructions out there that includes steps for non .deb based distros

[21:55] < vmlemon_> Hah, [22:54] < oxygene> _setuid_H: as "GNU's not unix" and solaris is unix, solaris can't be GNU :)

[21:56] < Davbo> Ah that reminds me mhrd-home, I missed that talk about OpenJDK. It was from someone from Red Hat too :(

[21:57] < Davbo> I'll have chances to see similar things over next 2 years anyways.

[22:01] < ms-away> well, I can capture data

[22:01] < ms-away> But mplayer has no idea what I'm capturing :-)

[22:02] < mhrd-home> heh, what cmd line are you using to capture?

[22:02] < mhrd-home> you got a ~/.mplayer/channels.conf file?

[22:03] < ms-away> ~/kamaelia/trunk/Sketches/MPS/LUGRadio/Record.py

[22:03] < ms-away> captures

[22:04] < ms-away> Or was doing

[22:04] < mhrd-home> how fast is the file growing? BBC TWO is a few Mbit/s, so should be growing by a few hundred kbyte/s

[22:05] < ms-away> Ah, that works

[22:06] < ms-away> Not consistently though

[22:07] < vmlemon_> Hmm, not sure if it's a good idea to ask here, but does anyone have a sample capture of an MHEG-5 channel I can have a poke at?

[22:07] < ms-away> Does work though

[22:07] < ms-away> vmlemon_: I believe this site has samples: http://redbutton.sourceforge.net/

[22:07] < mhrd-home> vmlemon_ : fraid not. you trying redbutton?

[22:08] < vmlemon_> I was going to have a play with an old MPEG-2 TS dissector I found for Ethereal/Wireshark

[22:08] < vmlemon_> redbutton seems interesting, that said

[22:09] < ms-away> mhrd-home: The code definitely works here, but it seems a little erratic

[22:09] < mhrd-home> the components in Kamaelia.Device.DVB.Parse should allow you to parse most data tables - enough to do the kind of task you'd use dvbsnoop for - to locate the PIDs containing the MHEG-5 DSM-CC

[22:09] < ms-away> More so than it used to be

[22:09] < mhrd-home> ms-away: cool ...

[22:10] < ms-away> Using this: https://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/kamaelia/trunk/Sketches/MPS/LUGRadio/Record.py

[22:10] < mhrd-home> could you try modding the notLocked() methods as I described on the mailing list? it might make it more consistently reliable

[22:11] < mhrd-home> I'm guessing that when it doesn't work, its because it tunes to the mux *too* quickly :)

[22:11] < ms-away> def notLocked(fe):

[22:11] < ms-away> """\

[22:11] < ms-away> Wait for lock, if it's not available, yield a true value.

[22:11] < ms-away> If it is, exit with a StopIteration. (allows use in a for

[22:11] < ms-away> loop)

[22:11] < ms-away> """

[22:11] < ms-away> return (fe.read_status() & dvb3.frontend.FE_HAS_LOCK) != 0

[22:12] < ms-away> Change != to ==

[22:12] < mhrd-home> yep

[22:12] < mhrd-home> (that bit gets set to 1 when it is locked)

[22:13] < ms-away> Yes, that's more reliable

[22:13] < Davbo> YAY It's alive! (can finally process ID3v2 MP3 tags)

[22:13] < mhrd-home> cool - thanks for confirming that!

[22:14] < ms-away> I'll check the change in

[22:14] < ms-away> I think a single character change doesn't need an entire branch

[22:14] < ms-away> :)

[22:15] < mhrd-home> needs fixing in both Core.py and Tuner.py

[22:15] < vmlemon_> Who knew something so simple could create so much trouble? ;)

[22:15] < Davbo> Heh wasn't that the problem you found last night mhrd-home?

[22:15] < mhrd-home> yep

[22:16] < ms-away> So same change here in Tuner.py as well?

[22:16] < ms-away> def notLocked(self):

[22:16] < ms-away> """\

[22:16] < ms-away> Wait for lock, if it's not available, yield a true value.

[22:16] < ms-away> If it is, exit with a StopIteration. (allows use in a for

[22:16] < ms-away> loop)

[22:16] < ms-away> """

[22:16] < ms-away> return (self.fe.read_status() & dvb3.frontend.FE_HAS_LOCK) != 0

[22:16] < mhrd-home> yep

[22:16] < vmlemon_> Hmm, which RedButton bits do I need?

[22:16] < vmlemon_> Just Browser and Download?

[22:16] < ms-away> Confirmed working.

[22:16] < mhrd-home> yep

[22:17] < mhrd-home> ms-away: cool

[22:18] < ms-away> Now, remind me - how do I made a channels.conf file again?

[22:18] *** ms-away wants to configure BBC1 for tomorrow...

[22:18] < mhrd-home> install scan or dvbscan

[22:19] < ms-away> got dvbscan

[22:19] < Davbo> What's on BBC1 tomorrow ms-away?

[22:19] < ms-away> ahh, I see

[22:19] < mhrd-home> Davbo: sillyquestion :-)

[22:20] < Davbo> Agh, that rubbish?! :P

[22:20] < mhrd-home> you need initial tuning data too - if you can't find it, you can download a prog called w_scan that'll generate it for you

[22:20] < ms-away> ~/kamaelia/trunk/Code/Python/Kamaelia> more /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/uk-WinterHill

[22:20] < ms-away> # T freq bw fec_hi fec_lo mod transmission-mode guard-interval hierarchy

[22:20] < ms-away> T 754166670 8MHz 3/4 NONE QAM16 2k 1/32 NONE

[22:20] < ms-away> Looks plausible?

[22:21] < ms-away> However:

[22:21] < ms-away> ~/kamaelia/trunk/Code/Python/Kamaelia> dvbscan /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/uk-WinterHill

[22:21] < ms-away> Unable to query frontend status

[22:21] < mhrd-home> umm, probably - is that the same freq as using in your LUGRadio recorder?

[22:21] < ms-away> yep

[22:21] < vmlemon_> Hmm, are the tuning data/channels.conf files different for each transmitter?

[22:21] < ms-away> vmlemon_: yep

[22:21] < mhrd-home> yep - different transmitters transmit on different freqs to prevent interference between adjacent areas

[22:22] < mhrd-home> ms-away: strange. device locked by something else?

[22:22] < ms-away> Nope

[22:23] < mhrd-home> what args are you using for dvbscan?

[22:24] < ms-away> "dvbscan /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/uk-WinterHill" - that fails

[22:24] < ms-away> retrying with "scan" though, which works :-)

[22:24] < vmlemon_> Meh, RedButton-Browser doesn't compile

[22:24] < ms-away> woo

[22:24] < vmlemon_> Something to do with MHEGStreamPlayer.h

[22:24] < mhrd-home> I had to install a huge pile of undocumented depennci to get itcompiling

[22:25] < mhrd-home> sorry - haven't got the list to hand - its on a machine back in the office that I don't have an IP addr for atm :)

[22:25] < ms-away> mhrd-home: I've solved most of those sorts of problems by installing *everything* in open suse 10.3

[22:25] < ms-away> :)

[22:25] *** vmlemon_ looks for the Bilsdale transmitter's channel list...

[22:26] < ms-away> and there's BBC one

[22:27] < vmlemon_> Yay, http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/releases/8/Everything/i386/os/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 4] IOError: < urlopen error (-2, 'Name or service not known')>

[22:28] *** vmlemon_ kicks yum for needing to rebuild it's internal repository lists everytime it's invoked, even if it's just done it

[22:30] < mhrd-home> vmlemon_ ... could you keep a list of what you're having to install? I've been trying to assemble a list of getting-started-with-dvb-stuff instructions. I've done them for ubuntu, but not had time to look at other distros yet

[22:31] < vmlemon_> Sure

[22:31] < vmlemon_> It looks like I need to install ffmpeg-devel at the moment

[22:31] < mhrd-home> thanks :) which distro btw?

[22:31] < vmlemon_> Fedora 8

[22:32] < vmlemon_> It probably needs a load of stuff that I already have, so I won't know what they are :|

[22:32] < ms-away> mhrd-home: For open suse 10.3, the things needed were - "select everything listed by a search for dvb in yast"

[22:32] < ms-away> I guess.

[22:32] < mhrd-home> lol

[22:32] < ms-away> SInce I didn't actually do that - I just installed everything :)

[22:32] < vmlemon_> If I find more, I'll ping

[22:33] < mhrd-home> I think I had to install 10+ things to get it to build for me :-(

[22:33] < ms-away> Installing the python-dvb3 bindings just required installing Pyrex

[22:33] < ms-away> and then it just worked

[22:33] < mhrd-home> cool

[22:33] < mhrd-home> which pyrex version btw?

[22:33] < ms-away> But then as you know that's the reason I use SuSE

[22:33] < ms-away> 0.9.3.1

[22:33] < vmlemon_> (It looks like it's only available from the 3rd party Livna repository :( )

[22:33] < vmlemon_> 0.4.9-0.41.20071011.lvn8 was the latest version that I know of

[22:33] < vmlemon_> (as of now, whilst installing it)

[22:34] < ms-away> (from the megabundle)

[22:34] < ms-away> Yazoo? On BBC 1?

[22:34] < ms-away> That's retro

[22:34] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: dance

[22:34] Reply: does the macarena

[22:34] < ms-away> heh

[22:34] < mhrd-home> oh, btw, I found out that greg fixed the bug that was breaking our dirac bindings in more recent pyrex's 0.9.7.something and later now should work again

[22:36] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[22:37] < vmlemon_> Fun

[22:37] < vmlemon_> I managed to saturate my rather slow link, and ended up choking my IRC client, somehow

[22:37] < ms-away> cool

[22:37] < ms-away> ah

[22:37] < vmlemon_> The wonders of poor quality connections

[22:38] < vmlemon_> (You know it's bad, when needing to open a window to improve the quality of the connection, as stupid as it sounds)

[22:38] < ms-away> Oh my, they're showing timecop shortly

[22:38] < ms-away> They must have real problems getting rights for stuff

[22:39] < vmlemon_> Yay, http://livna.cat.pdx.edu/fedora/8/i386/ffmpeg-devel-0.4.9-0.41.20071011.lvn8.i386.rpm: [Errno -1] Package does not match intended download

[22:39] < vmlemon_> [Errno 9] Requested Range Not Satisfiable

[22:39] *** vmlemon_ wonders what the hell's going on

[22:50] < Davbo> http://ubuntucat.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/how-did-ubuntu-end-up-so-popular/

[22:50] < Davbo> I can answer that question much more succinctly, they packaged wallpapers with naked women on them early on. ;-)

[22:51] < ms-away> Davbo: They made Debian usable.

[22:51] < Davbo> Yeah, that too.

[22:52] < vmlemon_> FTP++

[22:53] < Davbo> Mostly the first one though, I heard a podcast with one of the guys from the early days of Ubuntu talking about the meeting where Shuttleworth decided putting naked women as the wallpaper was a good idea. That didn't last very long

[22:53] < Davbo> (I am joking btw, but it did happen)

[22:53] < Davbo> 'caused quite a fiasco from what i heard too

[22:53] < ms-away> Lots of people got upset

[22:53] < vmlemon_> mhrd-home: It looks like compilation gets further after installing ffmpeg-devel-0.4.9-0.41.20071011.lvn8.i386.rpm

[22:53] < ms-away> Mainly in the US as far as I could tell

[22:54] < vmlemon_> But now it whinges about something else

[22:54] < Davbo> Yeah

[22:54] < vmlemon_> Looks like some crap to do with MIDI

[22:54] < Davbo> The development team weren't to happy about it too, which is a very bad start

[22:54] < vmlemon_> And trying to use ALSA when it isn't available

[22:54] < ms-away> The covers of most newsagents in the UK and adverts on TV have more nudity really than the original wallpapers

[22:55] < ms-away> I personally though they were tasteful for what they were. Dunno if appropriate, but didn't shout out "wildly inappropriate"

[22:55] < ms-away> wasn't also single gender or single race

[22:55] < vmlemon_> The circle of people ones?

[22:55] < ms-away> vmlemon_: yep

[22:56] *** vmlemon_ hasn't seen many of them, but wouldn't call them "nude" by any means

[22:56] *** Davbo was talking about another one with just 1 model

[22:56] < vmlemon_> Unless it was only a specific one

[22:56] *** vmlemon_ wished RedButton had a ./configure script...

[22:56] < Davbo> Apparently Shuttleworth brought the model into the Canonical office to explain his vision to the development team or something

[22:57] < vmlemon_> /usr/lib/gcc/i386-redhat-linux/4.1.2/../../../libasound.so: undefined reference to `midiparser_input_buf'

[22:57] < vmlemon_> /usr/lib/gcc/i386-redhat-linux/4.1.2/../../../libasound.so: undefined reference to `midiparser_create'

[22:57] < vmlemon_> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

[22:57] < vmlemon_> make: *** [rb-browser] Error 1

[22:57] < vmlemon_> Grumble...

[22:57] *** vmlemon_ Googles

[22:59] < vmlemon_> Meh, it's always annoying when Google returns no results whatsoever for a particular query

[23:03] < Davbo> Night all

[23:06] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[23:08] < vmlemon_> Hi again

[23:09] < ms-away> heh, just as I finally found the "controversial" image: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/4.10RC-images/screenshot-background.png

[23:10] < ms-away> The other 2 "controversial" images: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/4.10RC-images/screenshot-gdm.png

[23:10] < ms-away> http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/4.10RC-images/screenshot-gnomesplash.png

[23:11] < ms-away> I still can't understand people's issues with the images

[23:19] *** vmlemon_ gives up on RedButton for tonight

[23:20] < vmlemon_> I assume that on a "sane" installation for Fedora 8, it would finish compiling after the ffmpeg-devel stuff was installed

[23:20] < vmlemon_> *of

[23:23] < vmlemon_> Night

[23:25] < ms-away> cya

[23:25] *** ms-away calls it a night too

[23:36] < mhrd-home> hmm, time for sleep for me too

[23:37] *** mhrd-home has parted #kamaelia