[01:03] *** sadrul has joined #kamaelia

[07:45] *** Lawouach has joined #kamaelia

[08:03] < Lawouach> morning

[08:42] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[08:44] < vmlemon_> Hi

[09:08] *** zaheer_ is now known as zaheerm

[09:44] *** bcarlyon|ubuntu has joined #kamaelia

[10:39] *** orphans has joined #kamaelia

[10:41] < vmlemon_> Hi bcarlyon|ubuntu and orphans

[10:42] < orphans> morning

[10:43] < vmlemon_> Hah, "Really, this is the crap that I deal with DAILY. Obviously a child since I am already "in the future" with plenty of neat electronics. Funny how I did not "go" anywhere. It looks to me as if this person is heading straight for trouble. Since they "love giving mone away," maybe they should purchase spelling lessons and an attitude adjustment."

[11:46] *** MS- yawns

[11:46] < MS-> greetings

[11:47] < vmlemon_> Hmm, http://ohlssonvox.8k.com/fdd_raid.htm

[11:47] < vmlemon_> I can't see it giving very good rates of data integrity, or speed

[11:49] *** MS- notes that it would be really nice if the axon visualiser supported nesting.

[11:49] < MS-> Oh, floppy disk raid?

[11:50] < MS-> People keep on reinventing that :)

[11:51] *** vmlemon_ once tried using a floppy disk as excruciatingly slow swap space, ages ago

[11:51] < MS-> I bet it was :)

[11:52] < vmlemon_> I wonder if I could have burnt out the motor in the drive, given enough time...

[11:58] *** vmlemon_ is listening to Asahi no Naka de Hohoende by 松任谷由実 on Tokyo Cafe -Stylish, Cozy & Breezy- [Amarok]

[12:06] < vmlemon_> How exactly can they enforce the "no reverse engineering" bit at http://www.xandros.com/products/home/home_edition/license.html, seeing as the majority of the software Xandros includes is licensed in ways that make it legal to reverse-engineer it?

[12:11] < MS-> I have no idea. It's particularly strange really.

[12:11] < MS-> Or "dumb" when you see that on open source/free software

[12:11] *** MS- has been fiddling a bit more with this open office beta. I must say I do like

[12:12] < MS-> .

[12:12] < vmlemon_> I see that they also claim copyright over every single part of the system and the source code in it

[12:12] < vmlemon_> or at least that's the impression I get, despite not all of it belonging to them

[12:18] < bcarlyon|ubuntu> yo vmlemon

[12:20] < MS-> No the copyright they claim is on the "Software Product", and then note that everything accessible through the "Software Product" is owned by the people who made those things

[12:20] < vmlemon_> Aah

[12:20] < MS-> and that EULA has no power over those bits

[12:21] < vmlemon_> Nay for confusing EULAs

[12:21] < MS-> The actual "Software Product" is "Xandros Desktop OS"

[12:22] < MS-> Which appears to be indirectly defined as "stuff we didn't make or pay for to be made"

[12:22] < MS-> It's less well defined than SuSE's approach which, prior to openSuSE, was to define a special license for YaST

[12:22] < MS-> Which made things much clearer

[12:23] < vmlemon_> Wasn't YaST effectively proprietary?

[12:23] < MS-> (Basically YaST's license was like the creative commons licence "by-nc" )

[12:23] < MS-> You could create derivatives, and redistribute, but only non-commercially

[12:24] < MS-> So in practical terms, no one would really want to work on it

[12:24] < vmlemon_> I see

[12:24] < MS-> The Novell bought them and GPL'd it :)

[12:25] < vmlemon_> It seems that some companies say that they're going to open source their product, but in reality put out a special "Made for Open Source" version which has no resemblance whatsoever to the product they said they were going to release...

[12:25] < vmlemon_> Other than the name, usually

[12:26] < vmlemon_> (And of course, it doesn't actually contain the source code they were supposedly open-sourcing)

[12:26] < MS-> Often. Not always, but yes.

[12:26] < MS-> It's often people with a business model based on selling shrink wrapped (or similar) units at volume.

[12:27] < MS-> I've noticed

[12:27] < MS-> Whereas some companies that get it (eg report lab) tend to release the code, and actually add value

[12:27] < MS-> (What have I been reading if I'm spouting that sort of phrase...)

[12:29] < vmlemon_> I think Novell did that with iFolder, and Real did that when they decided to open source parts of their product (they effectively did a whole new "Made for Open Source" codebase that was unrelated to what the Windows versions of their products contained, barring a few components)

[12:29] < MS-> Well, they're a large org. There's bound to be a different distribution of clue ...

[12:30] < MS-> Interesting: http://www.usenix.org/event/nsdi08/tech/chen.html

[13:13] < vmlemon_> Hah, [09:53] < BBowie> but still, if i saw someone throwing their camera around and saying it was art, id smack em

[14:08] < MS-> vmlemon_: Looks like ooo3 can *import* the new MS office XML formats

[14:08] < MS-> but not write them

[14:08] < MS-> That's definitely the right way round :-D

[14:26] < vmlemon_> Hah

[14:27] < MS-> Also supports drag and drop from Konqueror of images from the file system

[14:28] < MS-> That's really quite a nice improvement

[14:28] < MS-> And drag & drop *replacement*

[14:29] < MS-> ie select photo, drag new photo onto selection, replacing photo

[14:30] < vmlemon_> As I suspected

[14:31] < vmlemon_> (The one-way support)

[14:31] *** MS- nods

[14:31] < vmlemon_> I remember Novell making a Windows-only export plug-in, ages ago

[14:31] < vmlemon_> Although it didn't work very well when I tested it

[14:31] < vmlemon_> and it needed a special "Novell Edition" of OpenOffice

[14:32] < MS-> It's in some respects better to be able to consume others, but not write others

[14:32] < vmlemon_> I'd find it interesting if obscure stuff like AppleWorks/ClarisWorks import was supported, one day

[14:33] < vmlemon_> Seeing as some people still have files in those formats

[14:40] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[14:41] < Davbo> Agh Kopete is awful biab, changing irc

[14:44] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[14:44] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[14:45] < Davbo> better.

[14:45] < Davbo> Hi all!

[14:46] < vmlemon__> Hi Davbo

[14:46] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[14:46] < Davbo> Well Lawouach, mission accomplished I was drinking Rum last night :)

[14:48] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: dance

[14:48] Reply: does the macarena

[15:10] < Davbo> It's my birthday today btw :-D

[15:11] < MS-> Happy Birthday!

[15:11] < vmlemon_> Happy pre-birthday ;)

[15:11] < Davbo> Thank you! :)

[15:12] < Davbo> I usually try to not go on my computer this 1 day of the year but i've got a deadline Monday lol :-)

[15:16] *** Davbo was hoping kamaeliabot would wish him happy birthday :-(

[15:16] < Davbo> no cake for you!

[15:19] *** vmlemon_ puts out a plate of Kamaelia: Cake on the channel table...

[15:25] < Lawouach> Happy birthday Davbo

[15:25] < Lawouach> how old are you then?

[15:25] < Lawouach> and was the rum good?

[15:25] < vmlemon_> It's made with concurrents ;)

[15:28] < Davbo> 19 Lawouach, it was quite nice! I made a Cuba Libre

[15:28] < Davbo> not the concurrent joke again vmlemon_ :P

[15:29] *** Lawouach didn't get the joke. Luckily it seems.

[15:31] < vmlemon_> Hah

[15:32] < vmlemon_> I think kamaeliabot is limited to providing party entertainment

[15:32] < vmlemon_> ;)

[15:34] < Davbo> My pursuit of a preferred distribution continues, currently using Mandriva.

[15:35] < Davbo> Only one so far to detect my Wireless card didn't need any messing about

[15:35] < Davbo> will probably stick with it for now.

[15:38] < vmlemon_> Yay

[15:39] < Davbo> My only gripe is with the logo.

[15:39] < Davbo> :D

[15:41] < Lawouach> The latest ubuntu was the first one that didn't require me to compile and install any additional software to support my Acer hot keys.

[15:42] < Lawouach> Therefore I can use my wireless out of the box.

[15:43] < Davbo> Yeah, this wireless card works with Ubuntu out of the box also. I want a clean KDE install though without having to use Adept (Kubuntu)

[15:44] < Davbo> I really liked openSUSE but it didn't like my Wireless card :(

[15:44] < Davbo> Mandriva is nice though.

[16:03] < vmlemon_> I always thought that Mandriva was a brand of cheap Brazilian orange juice ;)

[16:07] < Davbo> lol :)

[16:08] < Lawouach> OpenSUSE was fine but felt bloated when I last tried it (the 10 series)

[16:08] < vmlemon_> "Drink Mandriva! Only 99p from ALDI", or something like that

[16:08] < Lawouach> Used to be called Mandrake. Mandriva that is

[16:08] < Lawouach> I remember installing Mandrake 5.1

[16:08] < vmlemon_> Weren't they French?

[16:08] < Lawouach> They still are

[16:09] < vmlemon_> If I remember correctly, they (Mandrake, Connectiva, and some other distribution) merged ages ago

[16:10] < Lawouach> yes

[16:10] < Davbo> Yeah I recall installing it when it was Mandrake

[16:11] < Davbo> Always been a solid distribution, in my eyes at least

[16:11] < Lawouach> The first distro I ever installed was a Red Hat 4.2 in 1997 IIRC

[16:11] < Lawouach> I used to love Slackware at some point :)

[16:11] < vmlemon_> Davbo: The star thing?

[16:12] *** vmlemon_ has never used Slackware

[16:12] < Davbo> I've tried Slackware once too

[16:12] < Davbo> few years ago now

[16:12] < Davbo> Yeah the star vmlemon

[16:24] < Lawouach> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziIdjrR_MRs&feature=related < -- for orphans

[16:24] < Lawouach> :)

[16:25] < Lawouach> what's funny is that they make this as some kind of new way of making music. Ultimately it's just a different user interface.

[16:25] < Lawouach> Nothing new except that instead of clicking a mouse, you move stuff around.

[16:26] < Lawouach> Fun nonetheless :)

[16:27] *** MS- notes that video was given by orphans prior to his application going in and I added it as a comment to the app...

[16:27] < MS-> :)

[16:27] < MS-> hiya :)

[16:28] < Lawouach> lol

[16:28] < Lawouach> I had missed it then :)

[16:28] < Lawouach> hello indeed

[16:28] < MS-> It was kinda why I went "ooh, I like that. That'd be fun" :)

[16:28] < MS-> How's things?

[16:28] < orphans> hey guys :)

[16:29] < MS-> You're absolutely right about it being just a different interface.

[16:29] < MS-> But then that's fun :)

[16:31] < orphans> Lawouach, MS-, I think the potential is more interesting than what they do with it in that video - if you look at some of the stuff that's been done with Monome you can begin to see some of it

[16:32] < MS-> I dunno- but this cucumber looks cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3OxKdDxkpg

[16:32] < orphans> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix_x12IY4o4 is interesting imo, seeing what can be done just with a load of buttons basically

[16:32] < Lawouach> I'm sure. One aspect that was interesting in the video is that they generated un-wanted sound by their hand moving above the board.

[16:34] < orphans> yeah - probably a bit of an eff up on the video processing :)

[16:35] < orphans> Davbo, (bit behind here) - happy birthday. Looks like all the cool Kamaelia kids are celebrating today :)

[16:50] < Davbo> ooo what else is being celebrated orphans?

[16:51] < Davbo> also: Thank you :)

[16:52] < orphans> Davbo: my bday also :)

[16:53] < Davbo> Ahh cool, happy birthday!

[16:53] < orphans> cheers

[16:56] < Lawouach> MS-: tomorrow I will make a branch with the modification to the CSA for SSL support. I would appreciate if you could do a code review later on and decide whether or not this could make into trunk.

[16:56] < Lawouach> That would simplify things when I'll release headstock at some point soon

[17:00] < MS-> Will do.

[17:02] < Lawouach> ta

[17:02] < MS-> orphans: You're birthday too?

[17:02] < MS-> (or something better grammatically)

[17:02] < MS-> Happy Birthday :_)

[17:03] < orphans> MS-, cheers

[17:04] < Lawouach> happy birthday too then :)

[17:05] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[17:05] < orphans> ta Lawouach

[17:06] < MS-> Probably worth mentioning that I these days it seems alot easier to have branches as branching /trunk/Code/Python rather than /trunk

[17:07] < MS-> naming is as mentioned to Jason the other day, as per the docs, /branches/private_< initials>_< whatever you want> where < whatever you want> is as descriptive as possible :-)

[17:12] < MS-> ARGH

[17:12] *** MS- notes j_baker has checked in .pyc files into svn.

[17:13] < MS-> I guess I ought to post a brief tutorial/howto :)

[17:14] *** MS- removes from branch :)

[17:42] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[17:44] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[17:45] *** MS- watches doctor who

[17:45] *** MS- is now known as ms-away

[19:25] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[19:26] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[19:27] *** j_baker has joined #kamaelia

[19:27] < j_baker> Hello everyone.

[19:28] < vmlemon_> Hi

[21:38] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[21:41] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[22:39] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[23:33] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia