[00:01] *** bcarlyon|ubuntu has joined #kamaelia

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[07:22] < Lawouach_> morning

[08:01] < mhrd> morning :)

[08:01] < mhrd> was in pub yesterday evening (forgot to mark myself as afk)

[08:02] < Lawouach_> good beer I hope :)

[08:02] < mhrd> acceptable :)

[08:03] < mhrd> beer garden was less so though - more like a patch of concrete besides a major road junction

[08:04] < Lawouach_> ouch

[08:05] *** mhrd shrugs

[08:05] < mhrd> regarding SimplePeer ...

[08:05] < mhrd> the short answer is that it doesn't have a self.pause() because we never got round to adding it :)

[08:06] < mhrd> the long answer is that adding it is non trivial - as it is currently designed, it polls to check for incoming packets. so just sticking in a self.pause() would break its ability to receive packets when it isn't sending them (iyswim)

[08:07] < mhrd> one solution would be to re-engineer it to use the Selector, rather like CSA does

[08:08] < Lawouach_> Indeed

[08:08] < Lawouach_> Thanks for the insight

[08:09] < mhrd> np

[08:09] < mhrd> This reminds me: a while ago I did some experiments with RTP - trying to remultiplex MPEG2 Transport streams received over multicast RTP, then re-transmitting them ...

[08:11] < mhrd> I hit the same 100% cpu issue with the existing multicast transciever components - I was trying to process a few megabits/s

[08:11] < mhrd> so ended up creating a new multicast transceiver by modifying CSA and Selector, so that a custom 'socket' object could be plugged in.

[08:11] < mhrd> unfortunately, it never made it out of my sketches folder

[08:12] < mhrd> if you/orphans are interested, its in: /Sketches/MH/RTP/

[08:16] < mhrd> probably still in a bit of a mess, but iirc the multicast transceiver bit did work

[08:16] < Lawouach_> well, I guess you saw I had to tweak the CSA this week to support SSL.

[08:16] < Lawouach_> I realized one thing

[08:16] < Lawouach_> The CSA concept is great and yet not flexible enough I guess

[08:16] < Lawouach_> It's great

[08:16] < Lawouach_> But it felt really like monkey patching what I was doing

[08:17] < mhrd> indeed

[08:17] < Lawouach_> Maybe we'll need to take a look at it some day :)

[08:17] < mhrd> hindsight is wonderful :-)

[08:17] < mhrd> I'm certainly not adverse to seeing something reengineered to clean it up and improve it

[08:18] < Lawouach_> Indeed. Mind you it seems to be low priority for now since it works great

[08:18] < Lawouach_> Don't fix if it ain't broken :)

[08:23] *** sadru1 is now known as sadrul

[09:04] *** MS- has joined #kamaelia

[09:04] < MS-> morning

[09:04] < mhrd> hi MS-

[09:04] < MS-> How goes?

[09:05] *** mhrd reliving the joys of win32 mfc development for the past few days :-/

[09:06] < Lawouach_> MS-: hi

[09:06] < Lawouach_> mhrd: I feel for you mate

[09:07] < MS-> mhrd: Sounds "great"

[09:07] < MS-> yay, come back to 400 mails

[09:07] < MS-> Just as well I live on spam

[09:08] < mhrd> how lovely for you

[09:09] < Lawouach_> have you considered using gmail instead?

[09:09] < Lawouach_> Not having an actual gmail address

[09:09] < Lawouach_> but using its interface and spam engine to read yours

[09:12] < MS-> Lawouach_: This is my work email address

[09:12] < MS-> Rather than personal

[09:12] < MS-> On my personal one due to Kamaelia Grey I get virtually zero spam

[09:12] < MS-> *my* code works ;)

[09:13] < Lawouach_> I see

[09:13] < MS-> It's my work emal which is a spam ridden cess pit :)

[09:13] < MS-> Which I can't use those tricks for

[09:13] < Lawouach_> Still, I assume you have a pop at work

[09:13] < MS-> Not public

[09:13] < Lawouach_> i see

[09:13] < MS-> I doubt work would appreciate me punching a hole through to gmail

[09:13] < MS-> Not a bad idea though

[09:14] < MS-> Probably be classed as gross misconduct or similar

[09:14] < Lawouach_> Maybe they should consider it would make their employees more efficient to have a proper spam filter

[09:14] < Lawouach_> dunno... weird ideas like that

[09:14] < MS-> heh, wierdo

[09:14] < Lawouach_> I have no shame.

[09:15] < Lawouach_> Well I have a low barrier anyway.

[09:15] < MS-> yeah, I'm getting close to the point of just putting a vacation message on both email accounts saying "please mail < here> instead"

[09:15] < mhrd> kamaeliabot: help

[09:15] Reply: Name: kamaeliabot Channel: #kamaelia

[09:15] Reply: I do a simple job -- recording all channel traffic.

[09:15] Reply: Lines prefixed by [off] won't get recorded

[09:15] Reply: I respond to the following: 'logfile', 'infofile', 'help', 'date', 'time', 'dance', 'poke', 'slap', 'ecky', 'boo', and 'reload {modulename}'.

[09:15] < MS-> Only problem there is the internal lists

[09:20] < Lawouach_> :)

[09:20] < Lawouach_> Thunderbird does a good job on its own I've found

[09:20] < Lawouach_> It filters out around 95% of spam

[09:20] *** Uraeus has joined #kamaelia

[09:20] < Lawouach_> I assume you can't install it :)

[10:02] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[10:06] < vmlemon_> Hi

[10:08] < MS-> Lawouach_: Oh I can install stuff, I'd just rather not have to faff about with it

[10:08] < MS-> Though it's reached the point as far as I'm concerned that I have to do some faff with it

[10:12] < Lawouach> Well in that case Thunderbird is decent there.

[10:12] < Lawouach> It takes a bit of training but not that much

[10:22] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[10:22] < Davbo> Mornin' all

[10:23] < MS-> morning

[10:24] < Davbo> Another deadline down

[10:25] < Davbo> oh MS-, you'll like this: I got my java src for the main project to uni today and it wouldn't compile (100+ errors) - fortunately i had another copy which had the .class' pre-compiled in there

[10:25] < Davbo> what was it? write once, debug everywhere? :)

[10:26] < MS-> Davbo: Pretty much, yes

[10:27] < vmlemon_> WODALang, anyone?

[10:27] < Davbo> Fortunately it went okay and the guy i was demoing it to understood what the problem was (new version of Java at home older version here)

[10:28] < MS-> Ah, you mean you didn't code to spec ? ;)

[10:28] < MS-> < /tease>

[10:29] < Davbo> lol

[10:29] *** Davbo codes to his own spec ;)

[10:30] < MS-> Explaination of tease: I presume that the demo is a deliverable

[10:30] < MS-> that means being able to demo it matters :)

[10:31] < MS-> And can be viewed as part of spec :)

[10:31] < MS-> Computer Science has a very limited concept of spec

[10:31] < MS-> :)

[10:31] < Davbo> Yeah I had a feeling there may be a problem anyway, hence the pre-compiled version.

[10:31] < Lawouach> Since most software in production are buggy I would never really expect a demo to be perfect

[10:31] < mhrd> yep, quite abstract at times

[10:31] < Lawouach> :)

[10:31] < mhrd> Davbo: wise, and paid off :)

[10:32] < MS-> Lawouach: Indeed. Running matters though ;)

[10:32] < MS-> Though doing the wrong thing quickly is pointless too

[10:32] < Davbo> Probably shouldn't have opened it in Eclipse though (constantly keep compiling your code)

[10:38] < Davbo> Deadline for my Java byte-code stuff monday then that's pretty much it i think :)

[10:39] < Davbo> Get in some practice with Kamaelia before SoC starts.

[10:47] < MS-> Davbo: very wise - that's kinda the idea of the community bonding period

[10:48] *** MS- notes that orphans has a patch for simple peer that needs to get looked at, but no patch to be seen :0

[10:48] < MS-> :-)

[10:48] *** MS- thinks it's the idea of the bonding period anyway :)

[10:48] *** MS- would probably suggest Davbo plays with the multicore code

[10:49] < Davbo> Yeah, wish I could have done more before now but it just hasn't been feasible

[10:49] *** MS- nods

[10:49] < MS-> something like making two magnadoodle components operate in sync probably makes sense

[10:49] < Davbo> Alright, sounds cool

[10:49] < MS-> (drawing on one being mirrored on the other - like a massively simplified whiteboard)

[10:50] < MS-> just a random suggestion :)

[10:50] < MS-> I'm good at random suggestions

[10:50] < mhrd> MS-: ooi, do we still have that diagram around of how the whiteboard works inside?

[10:50] < MS-> *somewhere*

[10:50] < MS-> yes

[10:51] < MS-> It'll definitely be in my mail somewhere

[10:51] < mhrd> heh, np

[10:51] < MS-> I was hunting for it a while back and it was more elusive than it should be

[10:51] *** Davbo found the code for Whiteboard a bit overwhelming

[10:51] < Davbo> i'd like to see a diagram

[10:52] < MS-> The trick is to break it down into chunks really

[10:52] < MS-> Doing things as black boxes

[10:52] < Davbo> Yeah

[10:52] < MS-> (ie treat an entire pipeline as a black box

[10:52] < MS-> )

[10:53] < MS-> I think that's what I did when I did that diagram

[10:53] < MS-> (Since Matt wrote lots of the code for it)

[10:53] < MS-> ie the vast vast bulk

[10:53] < mhrd> neat trick MS- realised a while ago is to start from the end of the program

[10:53] < mhrd> so you start by drawing a top level diagram, then gradually work down through the layers

[10:55] < Davbo> Structures like pipelines really help with diagrams i imagine

[10:56] < mhrd> albeit there's probably alot of components you start to encounter, pretty much immediately, and go "what on earth does that do?"

[11:00] < Davbo> Yeah, that's when you jump on IRC and start asking questions at an exponential rate :P

[11:00] < Davbo> ;-)

[11:00] < mhrd> :)

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[11:03] < MS-> mhrd: I tend to have that viewpoint with code you right sometimes :)

[11:04] < MS-> But then your code is normally *RIGHT* :)

[11:04] < MS-> (cf the carousel taking me a stupidly long period of time to pick up :-) )

[11:04] < MS-> The whiteboard does have a fairly simple structure though, just a fair amount of it

[11:05] < MS-> It definitely needs refactoring though

[11:05] *** mhrd knows he's not always as focused as he shoudl be on writing *clear* code

[11:05] < MS-> largely due to my additions

[11:05] < MS-> heh

[11:05] < mhrd> "it works, just don't as me how" :-)

[11:05] < MS-> mhrd: Yeah, but I tend to trust your alpha code over other people's production code

[11:06] *** mhrd looks at MS- with concern :)

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[11:15] < Uraeus> hi zaheerm

[11:16] < zaheerm> hiyahi Uraeus

[11:16] < zaheerm> i had a question about Kamaelia

[11:16] Reply: Hi, I'm a bot. I've been put here to answer faq's and log the channel. You can find the logs at http://yeoldeclue.com/logs/ Please don't ask 'any mentors here' since I'm logging for them. Yes, there is. If you just ask you question

[11:16] Reply: or post your idea, you may get a response - either from a mentor or fellow student or from someone reading the logs.

[11:16] Reply: Regarding applications we will be discussing applications (and maybe asking for improvements) until April 7th or 8th - remember no news may well be good news

[11:16] Reply: Some useful links/tips - use the template : http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/SummerOfCode2006Template - base page: http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/SummerOfCode

[11:16] Reply: Tips for a good application - q's to ask yourself: http://yeoldeclue.com/cgi-bin/blog/blog.cgi?rm=viewpost&nodeid=1206709783

[11:16] < zaheerm> my question is whether it handles the compression used in freesat's schedule eit tables for name and description

[11:17] < MS-> Hi zaheerm

[11:17] < MS-> The short answer is I have no idea personally, though mhrd may well know

[11:17] < zaheerm> hi MS- , as a bit of context I am a gstreamer developer and have done the dvb work in gstreamer

[11:17] < MS-> We can certainly poke people to find out

[11:17] < zaheerm> that would be awesome

[11:17] < MS-> We have code to support EIT tables etc

[11:18] < MS-> But I wasn't aware of any compression being used. (I'm not really a DVB expert)

[11:18] < zaheerm> from my analysis, the name and description of the event seems to be huffman compressed

[11:18] < zaheerm> in one of two codebooks

[11:18] < MS-> zaheerm: I've heard many a good thing about the dvb support in gstreamer :)

[11:18] < MS-> Ah, I see

[11:18] < zaheerm> if first byte is 0x01 then codebook 1 and if 0x01 then codebook 2

[11:19] < zaheerm> this is only the freesat eit tables for the 8 day epg info

[11:19] < zaheerm> the normal present/following eits do not seem to have any compression

[11:19] < zaheerm> MS-, great :) i'm lucky in that i get to do this as part of my employment :)

[11:20] < zaheerm> the freesat stuff however is to scratch my own itch :)

[11:22] < zaheerm> MS-, any info you'd be able to dig up about the freesat schedule eits, i would be extremely grateful for

[11:22] < MS-> I'll see what I can do

[11:22] < zaheerm> awesome thanks!

[11:22] *** MS- vaguely remembers there may be something annoying to do with it though

[11:23] < MS-> I think that in order to encourage manufacturers to meet the spec that there's a short period of exclusivity on it

[11:23] < MS-> (and I believe it *is* short)

[11:23] < zaheerm> i did some preliminary analysis on them last night and figured it'd be easier to ask someone first before i attempt to reverse engineer it

[11:23] < MS-> indeed

[11:24] < MS-> I'll check with people thogh

[11:24] < zaheerm> thanks

[11:24] < MS-> if it turns out there is that little foible, I'll let you know, and if there isn't hopefully with the info you need :)

[11:24] < Uraeus> MS-: the problem with exclusivity setups like that is that they are easy prey to accidental leaks ;)

[11:24] < zaheerm> :) you're a star

[11:25] < MS-> Maybe worth looking at this in the meantime - http://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kamaelia/trunk/Code/Python/Kamaelia/Kamaelia/Device/DVB/EIT.py?revision=2733&view=markup

[11:25] < MS-> zaheerm: cheers

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[11:25] < Davbo> oooo a Freesat PVR?

[11:26] < zaheerm> considering the manufacturers have already manufactured, surely the openness promise of freesat will make it such that the spec is no longer needed to be exclusive :)

[11:27] < MS-> zaheerm: I've no idea really, and it's just a vague memory. If I recall correctly it's just intended to be temporary anyway.

[11:27] < MS-> Doesn't make any sense to me

[11:28] < zaheerm> MS-, cheers for looking into it for me :)

[11:28] < mhrd> zaheerm: I'm afraid it doesn't handle the differences in the EIT in freesat streams

[11:29] < zaheerm> in meantime I am checking if it is the same coding as in ATSC which uses huffman with 2 specified code tables

[11:29] < MS-> zaheerm: I've got the name of the person who came up with it - I'll see whether I can release it or not

[11:29] < MS-> I'm guessing it would be easy to reverse engineer if I can't :)

[11:29] < vmlemon_> Hmm, anyone know if a Sky Minidish will work with Freesat? (Assuming that you don't use BSkyB's proprietary Digibox)

[11:29] Reply: Hm?

[11:30] < zaheerm> vmlemon, it should work yes

[11:30] *** MS- slaps kamaeliabot

[11:30] < vmlemon_> I find it interesting that the box says DVB on the front

[11:30] < vmlemon_> I assume that they've made a few "enhancements", though

[11:30] < zaheerm> vmlemon, sky does use dvb

[11:31] < zaheerm> vmlemon, dvb-s and dvb-s2, they also broadcast sdt, nit and eit tables

[11:31] < mhrd> vmlemon_ : I'd imagine it is likely to. its broadcast on astra satellites in the same constellation

[11:32] < zaheerm> vmlemon, their epg and 7 day epg data however is in a proprietary form and only sky digiboxes can decode it

[11:33] < zaheerm> mhrd, any hints that would not be considered a leak are welcome :)

[11:33] < Uraeus> zaheerm: so when will you rev-eng that epg data? :)

[11:33] < zaheerm> Uraeus, i have got some way with the sky epg data, but it's a lot more complex than the freesat one

[11:34] < vmlemon_> I see that it's possible to view Virgin Media DVB-C content on Linux, now

[11:34] < vmlemon_> although you contravene their terms and conditions by doing so

[11:34] < mhrd> zaherm: even if I'm allowed to, I'm afraid I know very little about it

[11:35] < vmlemon_> What about Sky firmware updates?

[11:35] *** vmlemon_ wonders how/when they are sent over DVB

[11:36] < zaheerm> vmlemon_, yes Uraeus has done so using gstreamer and totem

[11:37] < vmlemon_> I saw the blog post, a few weeks ago

[11:39] < zaheerm> vmlemon_, the sky firmware updates are useless for anything except the sky digiboxes

[11:39] *** vmlemon_ was aware of that, but is still curious as to how and where they broadcast them/inject them into the TS

[11:39] < vmlemon_> Hmm, anyone managed to dump Sky's "EPG Background Audio" channel from a Transport Stream?

[11:40] < zaheerm> vmlemon_, the epg background audio is very simple

[11:40] < MS-> vmlemon_: You mean their twinkle twinkle little star music?

[11:40] < vmlemon_> It is it's own channel

[11:40] < MS-> (since that's one of the tunes :) )

[11:40] < vmlemon_> if I remember correctly

[11:40] < zaheerm> yes

[11:40] < zaheerm> they changed it i think at xmas time

[11:40] < vmlemon_> Although it's years since I last touched a Sky Digibox :|

[11:41] < vmlemon_> Isn't it usually stock "elevator"/"whoosh" music?

[11:41] < vmlemon_> (For want of a better way to describe it)

[11:42] < vmlemon_> With the occasional devocalized rock track

[11:42] < Davbo> Musak? :-)

[11:43] < vmlemon_> Yup

[11:43] < vmlemon_> That's the word I was looking for

[11:43] < Davbo> They really play twinkle twinkle little star?

[11:43] < vmlemon_> No idea

[11:44] < vmlemon_> I'd be surprised if they did

[11:44] < Davbo> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=769077

[11:45] < MS-> Davbo: yes, it's twinkle twinkle

[11:45] < MS-> They've done other nursery rhymes in the past

[11:45] < vmlemon_> Anyone know how the OpenTV applications (i.e. Teletext Holidays and Open..../Sky Active) work?

[11:45] Reply: Hm?

[11:45] < Davbo> Cool. Well, in away.

[11:45] < MS-> It's a bit like the theme for "Small Soliders" is in fact "The ants went marching one by one, hurrah, hurrah"

[11:46] < Davbo> Heh

[11:46] < mhrd> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenTV#OpenTV_Virtual_Machine_execution_environment

[11:48] *** vmlemon_ assume that they too are just another Channel/Stream (with a Data typeflag?) on the TS that gets broadcast

[11:48] < vmlemon_> *assumes

[11:48] < vmlemon_> Although I don't know if they send them as plain-text, or encrypt them

[11:48] < mhrd> fraid I'm not sure.

[11:49] < mhrd> I know that for freeview, the mheg apps are streamed as an "object carousel" - ie. a stream containing named chunks of data that regularly repeat - thereby ensuring the bits you need come round regularly

[11:49] < mhrd> I'd imagine sky do something similar

[11:49] < vmlemon_> OK

[11:49] < vmlemon_> Short of trying to find a DVB-S PCI card, and a Sky Minidish, and getting the timing Just Right

[11:50] < vmlemon_> (as well as positioning the said dish properly)

[11:52] < mhrd> but at a higher level, it is just another stream. A "Program Map Table" associates several streams with a "service" (channel) - that'll include the video, audio, subtitles, other audio (eg. audio description/alternative languages), egc.. probably also the interactive streams

[11:52] < mhrd> http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/Components/pydoc/Kamaelia.Device.DVB.Parse.ParseProgramMapTable.html

[11:54] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[11:55] < Davbo> "Use Jacobi iteration to attempt to solve the equation" *facepalm*

[11:55] < vmlemon__> Damn connection

[11:55] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[12:00] *** MS- goes afk for a bit

[12:04] *** vmlemon_ has never understood why certain juice drink and mineral water containers state "Made with natural mineral water"...

[12:04] < vmlemon_> (Surely all water is natural)

[12:10] < vmlemon_> Hmm, http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/sky-sky-tv/17875-whats-your-favourite-epg-background-audio.html

[12:15] < vmlemon_> http://www.tvforum.co.uk.nyud.net:8080/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27594&start=0 looks somewhat interesting...

[12:16] < vmlemon_> Answers most of my questions about implementation of the EPG/Guide stuff

[13:13] *** bcarlyon|laptop has joined #kamaelia

[14:00] *** bcarlyon|laptop has joined #kamaelia

[15:16] *** j_baker has joined #kamaelia

[15:47] < j_baker> MS-I found a minor bug in Kamaelia.File.BetterReading

[15:47] < j_baker> It is using KamaeliaIPC instead of Kamaelia.IPC

[15:48] < j_baker> It seems to work if I change it to Kamaelia.IPC

[15:48] < j_baker> Is there any major functional difference between the two?

[15:49] < MS-> IIRC, that will be due to files being renamed

[15:49] < MS-> Kamaelia.KamaeliaIPC is very bad naming

[15:49] < MS-> Kamaelia.IPC is better

[15:49] < MS-> But less than ideal

[15:49] < MS-> (Kamaelia.IPC implies it contains _components_ for IPC)

[15:50] < MS-> Whereas Kamaelia.Support.IPC would mean it's support code (not components) for IPC

[15:50] < MS-> Even then it's not IPC since IPC is something else

[15:50] < MS-> but back to the original q, the difference is the name

[15:50] < j_baker> Oh, I see.

[15:51] < j_baker> Did you want me to commit the change I made to BetterReading, or did you plan on changing where the IPC module is located?

[15:51] < MS-> you should create a branch with the fix in

[15:51] < MS-> make the change on the branch and commit that

[15:51] < MS-> if you want something lighter weight

[15:52] < MS-> you can do a

[15:52] < MS-> svn copy Code/Python/Kamaelia/Kamaelia/Path/To/File.py Sketches/YOURDIR/File.py

[15:52] < MS-> and make the changes there, but doing the branch is nicer

[15:53] < MS-> svn copy trunk/Code/Python branches/private_INITIALS_NameOfBugFix

[15:53] < MS-> I'd prefer the latter

[15:55] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[15:56] < j_baker> Ok, I can do that. One last question, if I run the cookbook HTTP server, should http://127.0.0.1:8082/ return index.html?

[15:57] < vmlemon_> Hi

[15:57] < j_baker> Or do I have to go to http://127.0.0.1:8082/index.html?

[15:57] < j_baker> (it only works with the latter)

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[16:01] < MS-> The latter

[16:01] < MS-> http://127.0.0.1:8082/ is *normally* configured by a webserver to say "return index.html", but it doesn't have to

[16:02] < MS-> It just means " return the resource "/ "

[16:02] < MS-> or resource "" depending on perspective

[16:02] < MS-> which is why it refers to index.html instead

[16:02] < MS-> though index.cgi was also common at some points in the past

[16:03] < MS-> There's nothing stopping the creation of a better handler that returns index.html of course

[16:03] < j_baker> Then what's the point of the indexfilename variable?

[16:04] < MS-> Dunno - I didn't write it :-D

[16:04] < MS-> (the original web serving code that is

[16:04] < MS-> )

[16:04] < j_baker> Ok. I've got a couple of ideas about how to change that code to some degree.

[16:04] < j_baker> I'll try them out.

[16:05] < MS-> OK, I better go catch a train (since they become irregular otherwise - I'll be back on later

[16:05] < MS-> That's the nice thing about branches

[16:05] < MS-> as long as they're named as suggested you can create as many as you like and say

[16:05] < MS-> "that code sucks, my code rules, look at this"

[16:05] < MS-> ;)

[16:05] < j_baker> :)

[16:05] < j_baker> Alright, talk to you later.

[16:05] < MS-> back in a while

[16:05] < MS-> cya

[16:05] *** MS- has parted #kamaelia

[16:29] < j_baker> going to get breakfast

[16:29] *** j_baker is now known as j_baker-breakfas

[16:42] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[17:09] *** j_baker has joined #kamaelia

[17:39] < vmlemon_> Hi j_baker

[17:39] < j_baker> hello vmlemon_

[18:03] < vmlemon_> o.O http://www.textfiles.com/humor/acronym.lis

[18:29] *** mhrd is now known as Matt-afk

[18:41] < j_baker> Do you know much about svn, vmlemon_?

[18:41] < vmlemon_> Nope :|

[18:42] < j_baker> Well, crap. :P

[18:42] < j_baker> I'll ask MS- when he gets back.

[18:43] < vmlemon_> I tend to use it more for retrieving stuff, than for trying to upload stuff

[18:43] < vmlemon_> (I've never managed to get it working for the latter :()

[18:43] < j_baker> Me too.

[18:44] *** vmlemon_ managed to destroy his Windows Server 2003 installation, or at least make it boot in a less predictable manner, earlier

[18:44] < vmlemon_> somehow...

[18:45] < j_baker> Heh...

[18:45] < j_baker> I hear that's pretty easy to do if you're using Windows 2003 as a desktop OS

[18:45] < vmlemon_> It now boots to the Windows logo screen, and then displays a black screen and does nothing

[18:45] < vmlemon_> If I'm lucky, it'll give me a log-in screen, if I've rebooted it at least 5 times

[18:45] < vmlemon_> or something like that

[18:46] < vmlemon_> I reckon that it was the crappy Helix Download Manager for DRM'd content I'd installed on it, earlier

[18:46] < j_baker> Heh...

[18:46] < vmlemon_> (which happens to not only crash Firefox and IE6 when invoked from it, but the whole VM)

[18:47] < vmlemon_> *them

[18:47] < j_baker> Yeah, I would install Win 2k3 if not for that.

[18:47] < vmlemon_> It was the only version of Windows I had handy for experimentation :|

[18:47] *** MS- has joined #kamaelia

[18:48] < MS-> evening

[18:48] < vmlemon_> Hi MS-

[18:48] < vmlemon_> (I did have Windows 2000 Advanced Server, somewhere)

[18:48] < j_baker> Just the person I was looking for.

[18:48] *** MS- has just installed the open office 3 beta

[18:48] < MS-> Very nice

[18:48] < vmlemon_> It supports a subset of MSOOXML?

[18:48] < j_baker> If I have a directory on my local machine and want to add it to SVN as a branch, how would I do that MS-?

[18:48] < MS-> (zooming out on text document results in being able to see multiple pages side by side at a time)

[18:48] < vmlemon_> Or so I hear it supposedly does

[18:48] < MS-> vmlemon_: No idea, nor do I care :)

[18:49] < vmlemon_> Aah

[18:49] *** vmlemon_ was curious, after reading blog posts about it

[18:49] < MS-> It may do, it's just shiny behaviour

[18:49] < MS-> j_baker: assuming said directory is in the right place

[18:49] < MS-> svn add directory

[18:49] < MS-> svn ci directory

[18:49] < vmlemon_> If I didn't have such a poor connection here, I might download it

[18:50] < j_baker> It's not. :/

[18:50] < j_baker> I've just been editing a few kamaelia files in place in my site-packages directory.

[18:50] < MS-> in which case you need to move it to the right place first :)

[18:50] < MS-> simple :)

[18:50] < vmlemon_> I wonder if KOffice will ever fix their weird full screen presentation mode

[18:50] < j_baker> I see.

[18:50] *** MS- goes afk again (back in a bit)

[18:51] < vmlemon_> (it displays more of the background than it should, and displays things in weird places for some reason)

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[19:14] < vmlemon_> Ouch, http://www.flickr.com/photos/vmlemon/2479053910/

[19:14] < vmlemon_> I wonder why they hid it so deep in the binary

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[19:19] < Lawouach> evening

[19:19] < vmlemon_> Hi Lawouach

[19:29] *** j_baker_ has parted #kamaelia

[19:43] < Lawouach> http://www.newcastlestuff.com/charver/lifestyles.html

[19:44] < Lawouach> Country life is the real thing.

[20:45] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[20:46] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[21:07] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[21:16] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[21:20] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[21:22] < vmlemon_> Hi Davbo

[21:28] < Davbo> Hi vmlemon_ - and the rest of ye.

[21:30] < Lawouach> http://trac.defuze.org/browser/oss/headstock/headstock/example/simplechat/simplechat.py

[21:30] < Lawouach> simple XMPP client example

[22:16] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[22:17] < Davbo> Hmm stupid Vista!

[22:17] < Davbo> I'm going to upgrade to XP

[22:19] < vmlemon_> Are you sure you don't want to downgrade to Vista, after upgrading to XP again? ;)

[22:19] < Davbo> I'm having a phase at the minute, I always do this after upgrading my computer

[22:20] < vmlemon_> Aah

[22:20] < Davbo> There isn't anything that isn't backed up so I like to install various OS

[22:21] *** vmlemon_ wanted to try Windows Server 2008, but can't download or install it

[22:22] < vmlemon_> (The former since I don't have broadband, the latter since it uses more RAM than I have installed in my laptop when running on VMware, which would make it incredibly slow)

[22:24] < Davbo> A UNIX saleslady, Lenore,

[22:24] < Davbo> Enjoys work, but she likes the beach more.

[22:24] < Davbo> She found a good way

[22:24] < Davbo> To combine work and play:

[22:24] < Davbo> She sells C shells by the seashore.

[22:24] < vmlemon_> Hah

[22:25] < Davbo> http://limerickdb.com/?top150 :-)

[22:27] < vmlemon_> Aww, it isn't possible to use 0800Reverse to call 0800Reverse (or other 0800 numbers, for that matter)

[22:28] < vmlemon_> (I tried to do it, a few days ago)

[22:31] < Davbo> lol :)

[22:31] < vmlemon_> Would have been fun to have done a recursive 0800Reverse session

[22:32] < vmlemon_> (Using each time to call a new one, until eventually blocking the system up)

[22:34] < vmlemon_> Conference calling between customer service centre employees is fun on 3, though

[22:34] < vmlemon_> if you can get the timing right, before one of them hangs up

[22:35] < vmlemon_> The idea being to see how long you can keep both employees on the call, and hopefully get them to at least converse for a few seconds

[22:37] < vmlemon_> (Bonus points if you can get two people who happen to be sat next to each other, or manage to get two from different departments ;) )

[22:38] < Davbo> Haha

[22:39] < Davbo> Me and my brother bought some Skype out for similar reasons once

[22:39] < Davbo> so much fun :)

[22:39] < Davbo> back in a bit, upgrading to XP

[22:39] < Davbo> :-)

[22:39] < vmlemon_> OK

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