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[07:13] < Lawouach_> morning

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[09:56] < Davbo> morning all

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[10:49] < ms-away> morning

[10:49] *** ms-away will be out much of today prob

[10:50] < orphans> morning ms-away. Up to anything fun?

[10:53] < Davbo> Hey orphans, ms-away

[10:53] < ms-away> Going out for the day into town, for randomness probably :)

[10:53] < orphans> Davbo, hey :)

[10:54] < orphans> ms-away, cool cool

[11:10] < Lawouach> Hi boys, going back to work. orphans still available this evening?

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[11:43] < Lawouach_> back at work

[11:58] < orphans> Lawouach_, yup - 7 UK yeah

[11:59] < Lawouach_> cool

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[16:45] < j_baker> hello bcarlyon|laptop

[17:57] < orphans> Lawouach, ping?

[17:58] < Lawouach> pong

[17:58] < Lawouach> you had the time for dinner?

[17:58] < Lawouach> I'm getting mixed up with timezone

[17:58] < Lawouach> so we can postpone a bit if you need to

[17:59] < orphans> can do it it's easier for you - I'm good now if it suits?

[18:00] < Lawouach> I'm good now

[18:00] *** orphans has minions building a barbeque as I speak

[18:02] < Lawouach> :)

[18:02] < Lawouach> good man

[18:02] < Lawouach> Well, so let's take where we left

[18:03] < Lawouach> Have you a chance to do anything since Saturday?

[18:03] < orphans> yeah, I've made a pygame component which surprisingly works :)

[18:04] < Lawouach> :)

[18:04] < orphans> it's pretty simple atm, but I've got a bit more on my pc which needs tidying up a little before comitting - all the pygame stuff is the same though

[18:04] < Lawouach> Ok

[18:04] < Lawouach> if not too long, could you paste it over?

[18:05] < orphans> pastebin ok?

[18:05] < Lawouach> yes

[18:05] < orphans> 2 secs

[18:06] *** ms-away reads j_baker's posts and replies

[18:07] *** ms-away stays quiet otherwise

[18:07] < orphans> http://orphans.pastebin.com/d312f8041

[18:07] < Lawouach> looking

[18:07] < orphans> hopefully not messed up the copy paste - afraid it's undocumented 'cause I wanted to work it up from scratch

[18:11] < Lawouach> It's quite clean :)

[18:11] < orphans> cheers :)

[18:15] < Lawouach> let me install pygame so that I can run it :)

[18:16] < orphans> k :)

[18:19] < Davbop> Hahah, spent about 20 minutes trying to work out what's wrong with my code. The lecturer has used 2 collections and wrapped a Vector in an ArrayList when it could just be one

[18:20] < Lawouach> orphans: That's a nice demo :)

[18:20] < Lawouach> Have you planned to extend it?

[18:21] < orphans> yeah - I was going to add in stuff like friction and maybe multiple pucks w/ gravity between them and stuff

[18:21] < Lawouach> Have you also noticed your demo was consuming a lot of CPU?

[18:21] < Lawouach> Would you have an idea why? (I have ;)

[18:21] < orphans> no :)

[18:21] *** orphans looks

[18:21] < Lawouach> Alright, that'll be your first task then :)

[18:21] < orphans> heh, so it is :D

[18:22] < orphans> erm, guesses - redrawing too much and polling the mose two often?

[18:22] < orphans> *mouse

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[18:24] < orphans> or is there something more obvious than that?

[18:26] < Lawouach> That's about it really :)

[18:26] < orphans> cool cool :)

[18:26] < Lawouach> pygame comes from the gaming field and usually you have to write your own pacing function

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[18:27] < Lawouach> Most GUI toolkit handle that in built-in

[18:27] < Lawouach> Could you try to add a bit of code so that the CPU is not used as much?

[18:28] < orphans> yeah sure

[18:28] < orphans> you want it done now?

[18:31] < Lawouach> no

[18:31] < Lawouach> It'd be nice to have it by the end of the week

[18:31] < orphans> k, cool - I'll add it to my list of bits to clean up

[18:31] < Lawouach> You have shown you could use pygame with Kamaelia

[18:31] < Lawouach> I don't need much more from that POV

[18:32] < Lawouach> However ensuing your demo doesn't drive my CPU to its knees would be useful

[18:32] < orphans> heh, sorry about that

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[18:32] *** orphans causes global warming

[18:32] < Lawouach> :)

[18:32] < Lawouach> I wasn't complaining

[18:33] < Lawouach> The point here is that you understand that it's better to have less features but working ones than lots of features that make you look bad.

[18:34] < orphans> yeah, definitely

[18:35] < Lawouach> Maybe ensuing the window can be closed by clicking a button would be useful too.

[18:35] < Lawouach> And if you want to add features, maybe something more in line with what your proposal is all about, each time the ball hit one of the wall you could play a sound

[18:36] < Lawouach> Ensuing it's synschronised.

[18:36] < Lawouach> By Saturday that ought to be doable :)

[18:36] < orphans> no worries :D

[18:37] < orphans> that'll be good too, mean I'll need to sort out a bit of the timing code

[18:38] < Lawouach> yes

[18:38] < Lawouach> precisely

[18:38] < Lawouach> That's what I'm getting at ;)

[18:38] < Lawouach> Since your application will be very demanding on that front

[18:38] < Lawouach> less on the graphics

[18:39] < orphans> yeah, cool

[18:40] < Lawouach> Have you had a chance to commit a README and INSTALL text files?

[18:40] < orphans> oh, yeah - I did that yesterday

[18:41] < Lawouach> Good

[18:41] < Lawouach> Well unless you have questions that's good for me for this meeting.

[18:42] < Lawouach> But then again I'm around all evening.

[18:42] < orphans> don't think so, if I think of anything I'll ask

[18:43] < orphans> cool then, I'm off to peer at a bbq - the smells coming up into my room are very tempting :)

[18:43] < orphans> cheers Lawouach

[18:43] < Lawouach> :)

[18:46] < Lawouach> bon appétit

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[19:07] *** ms-away notes the CPU usage discussion.

[19:07] < ms-away> I'll add some comments about that code at some point (maybe tonight)

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[19:32] < Davbo> You know what would make more sense than programming Prolog in Java. Using Prolog.

[19:33] < Davbo> I think that could be the body of an email to my lecturer

[19:33] < j_baker> Well, are we talking about using Prolog in the Java VM or trying to turn java into prolog?

[19:34] < Davbo> Using Java for something which Prolog is clearly much better at

[19:34] < j_baker> What class is this for?

[19:35] < Davbo> AI Techniques

[19:35] < j_baker> Ya. I think prolog would definitely be better for that.

[19:35] < j_baker> What I think would be even better is if instructors let you choose a language.

[19:35] < Davbo> Yeah

[19:36] < j_baker> Or at a very minimum let you choose from a set of languages.

[19:36] < j_baker> I personally don't want to end up one of those programmers who just programs in Java/C# because that's all they know.

[19:36] < Davbo> Yeah you'd have to take a subset, what if someone wanted to program in ASM :P

[19:37] < j_baker> Then I think they deserve the F they would probably get. :)

[19:37] < Davbo> hehe

[19:37] < j_baker> But then again, I'm evil.

[20:25] < Davbo> Woo!

[20:25] < Davbo> Just had a break-through with this work

[20:25] < Davbo> due to a typo in the code

[20:25] < j_baker> That's always fun. :)

[20:25] < Davbo> (made by my lecturer) - he thought it would be a good idea to miss out an "is" in a string which was being tokenized

[20:26] < Davbo> just informed 3 other people and they all responded with something along the lines of "OMG"

[20:27] < j_baker> Heh... now that's just a pain.

[20:27] < j_baker> Makes you wish instructors would do a little editing before they assign something.

[20:28] < j_baker> Or at least make a TA do it if nothing else.

[21:04] < j_baker> ms-: Would I be correct in saying that it's preferable for a component to determine if it's finished executing by calling a shutdown() method?

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[21:12] < Chong-> Evening, all.

[21:12] < j_baker> Hello Chong-

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[21:13] < Chong-> hi, _baker.

[21:14] < j_baker> So how goes it for you?

[21:15] < Chong-> Not bad. Finally setup PyDEV with eclipse.

[21:16] < j_baker> How is that going for you?

[21:20] < Chong-> It's good, has more functions than idle, kate, more straightforward than gvim.

[21:21] < j_baker> Have you tried KDevelop?

[21:22] < Chong-> not yet.

[21:22] < Chong-> How is it?

[21:23] < j_baker> I like it a lot. It feels a lot more "linux-like" than eclipse.

[21:24] < j_baker> But then again, I'm biased.

[21:25] < j_baker> Java apps just feel too... fake to me.

[21:25] < j_baker> < - spoiled by OS X

[21:25] < Chong-> Great. I will give it a try.

[21:27] < Chong-> I agree. the ui of mac os x is the best of all.

[21:28] < j_baker> Yeah. I like Apple's focus on simplicity.

[21:29] < j_baker> I don't really think I've ever felt the "I'm using software that can do 10 million things but I only want to do a couple of them" that I constantly feel using MS Office.

[21:30] < Chong-> yep. you can use open office if you do not like MS'

[21:30] < j_baker> Indeed. I was just using MS Office as an example.

[21:30] < j_baker> It seems to be the arch-typical example of "bloatware."

[21:33] < Chong-> I cannot agree more:-)

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[22:52] < Chong-> Gotta sleep. have a good night, all.

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[23:44] < j_baker> ms-: I have some code that's getting stuck in an infinite loop somewhere in Axon.debug and I was wondering if you could give me some guidance.

[23:44] < j_baker> http://jason.baker.pastebin.com/m2debc86d