[00:02] < MS-> That was awesome

[00:02] < MS-> (brian blessed on HIGNFY)

[00:03] < MS-> Just finished watching it

[00:03] < MS-> It wasn't HIGNFY at all - it was "Let's allow brian blessed to just be mad on TV half hour"

[00:03] < MS-> Fantastic

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[05:53] *** j_baker has joined #kamaelia

[07:38] < Lawouach> MS-: Sorry, this programme is only available to play in the UK

[07:38] < Lawouach> I can't watch the program you linked :)

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[09:13] < vmlemon__> Hi

[09:14] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[09:18] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: dance

[09:18] Reply: does the macarena

[10:44] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: ecky

[10:44] Reply: Ptang!

[11:32] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

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[11:40] < orphans> afternoon all

[11:40] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[11:41] < vmlemon_> Hi

[11:42] < Lawouach> hello

[11:43] < orphans> how's it going guys?

[11:47] < vmlemon_> OK

[11:49] < Lawouach> I've finished reading Memories of Ice yesterday

[11:50] < Lawouach> That was stunning.

[12:32] < orphans> anyone on OSX here?

[12:32] < orphans> s/on/familiar with

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[12:49] < Davbo> nice blog post MS-

[12:50] < orphans> hey Davbo,

[12:50] < orphans> was pretty cool weren't it :)

[12:50] < Davbo> Hey :)

[12:51] < Davbo> orphans, what's up with OSX?

[12:54] < orphans> need to know the most sensible way of installing pyrex - I think it's through some sort of ports thing, but it's all a bit alien to me

[12:54] < orphans> darwinports has it - is it sensible to just say grab it from there?

[12:55] < Davbo> sounds about right

[12:55] < Davbo> (I don't have a mac but occaisionally steal my brothers)

[12:56] < orphans> cool cool - I've spent about half an hour total on a mac in my life :)

[12:56] < Davbo> hehe

[12:57] *** Lawouach has put Definitely Maybe in the stereo

[12:58] < Davbo> http://www.last.fm/user/Davbo/

[12:58] < Davbo> "Top Artists Overall" Lawouach

[12:58] < Davbo> I had a phase.

[12:59] < Davbo> s/phase/problem

[12:59] < orphans> Davbo, Neutral Milk Hotel :D

[12:59] < Lawouach> Oasis is a great band but they have also lots of rubbish songs

[13:00] < Davbo> Yeah, they're great if you don't listen to any lyrics

[13:00] < Lawouach> eh eh

[13:00] < Davbo> (Oasis not Neutral Milk)

[13:01] < Davbo> I can play some NMH on my guitar orphans :)

[13:01] < Davbo> specifically "In The Aeroplane Over the Sea" that song's amazing

[13:02] < orphans> it's my fave album ever - I can play Aeroplane (badly) on guitar iirc

[13:02] < orphans> g, em, c, d?

[13:02] < Davbo> Hmm maybe

[13:03] < Davbo> i'd have to strum it out to remember

[13:03] < Lawouach> gem cd is it? ;)

[13:03] < orphans> heh - yeah, definitely :)

[13:03] < Lawouach> alright orphans

[13:04] < Lawouach> shall we look into that meeting :)

[13:04] < orphans> yeah, I'm ready and willing... or something

[13:04] < Lawouach> having never done one for GSoC, I can't quite remember how MS- did it

[13:05] < orphans> I'm sure we can make it up as we go along...

[13:05] < Lawouach> so we'll go by ear

[13:07] < Lawouach> Let's see

[13:07] < Lawouach> I'm going through your proposal to refresh my mind.

[13:07] < orphans> uh huh

[13:08] < Lawouach> Since you've written it, have you evolved in its idea?

[13:08] < Lawouach> Has anything changed?

[13:09] < orphans> not massively - I think I've got a bit of a clearer idea of how I want the UI to work for a first go at it

[13:10] < Lawouach> That's good.

[13:10] < orphans> oh, and I think I've probably in my mind changed how the extras might work

[13:10] < Lawouach> Letting ideas to settle is always positive as long as you don't pile up more idea atop of it ;)

[13:10] < Lawouach> Alright.

[13:11] < Lawouach> We'll see for the extras later if you will (you can blog it before hand of course ;))

[13:11] < Lawouach> I'd like to focus on the core features first.

[13:11] < orphans> ok, cool

[13:12] < orphans> I guess from my pov I'm pretty cool with most of how it's going to work. The big bit which I'm not sure on is exactly how the network code is likely to happen

[13:12] < Lawouach> Unless MS- disagrees, I wouldn't mind if we could set up a google calendar of the different projects and milestones you guys specified. That'd make things easier to follow IMO.

[13:12] < Lawouach> I'll look into it.

[13:13] < orphans> yeah, the calendar sounds cool

[13:13] < Lawouach> In the meanwhile, you specified you were considering taking up to the 25th to get on track with pygame.

[13:13] < Lawouach> Is that still accurate enough in your mind?

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[13:14] < orphans> yeah, it should be alright - I've got a couple of weeks before my exams start properly, so I think if I put in a couple of hours here and there I should be OK

[13:14] < Lawouach> When are your exams exactly?

[13:15] < Lawouach> When do you feel you will have to give time back for them?

[13:15] < orphans> 19th May to the 4th June

[13:15] < Lawouach> I don't want to pressure you on the GSoC project. Your exams come first.

[13:15] < Lawouach> Alrigth, so that sets the expectations until the 6th really. I shan't ask too much of you but that also means you'll have to work hard afterwards :)

[13:16] < orphans> yeah, I understand :)

[13:16] < Lawouach> That's cool :)

[13:16] < orphans> it's alright putting half and hour in here or there in the evenings atm - I don't tend to work on uni stuff much past 8 anyway

[13:16] < Lawouach> What I would appreciate of you is whenever you cannot allocate time for GSoC, please send me an email.

[13:17] < orphans> but yeah, it's pretty hectic

[13:17] < Lawouach> Nothing fancy. So that I know what you're up to :)

[13:17] < orphans> Lawouach, ok, cool

[13:17] < Lawouach> Righty-o

[13:18] < Lawouach> So, realistically, what are you planning for the coming week regarding GSoC?

[13:18] < Lawouach> Not time wise but task wise

[13:19] < orphans> I'm just about finishing off getting that README and INSTALL done, and I'd like to pretty much understand one of the simple pygame components (Button or something) well enough that I could write it

[13:19] < Lawouach> Ok. That'd be good for me too.

[13:20] < Lawouach> I used to play with SDL back in 2000 (wrote some French tutorials about it) but never played much with pygame and not at all with its integration within Kamaelia.

[13:20] < Lawouach> I'm interested in it however :)

[13:20] < Lawouach> So that'll be a good one for me too ;)

[13:21] < orphans> mm, I used it very briefly about 5 years ago, but can remember nothing

[13:21] < Lawouach> :)

[13:22] < orphans> time-wise I reckon after this week I'll have to be pretty minimal until after my exams though - maybe a couple of bits and pieces in the week of the 12th

[13:22] < orphans> then from the 5th I'll be free and busy!

[13:22] < Lawouach> That's alright with me and I'd guess with MS- and mhrd too.

[13:23] < orphans> ok, cool - I'll be sure to stay around and keep up with the channel etc

[13:23] < Lawouach> Okay so what I would like you to come up with for Monday evening (our next meeting) is and idea of a simple UI to build up this week.

[13:23] < Lawouach> Of course if you have some code by Monday already that'd be even better ;)

[13:24] < Lawouach> I would also appreciate that you commit your code as often as you can

[13:24] < Lawouach> Doesn't matter if it's broken.

[13:24] < orphans> yeah, I will do

[13:25] < Lawouach> That'll allow me to review your work offline.

[13:25] < Lawouach> Thanks.

[13:25] < Lawouach> Cool.

[13:25] < Lawouach> Do you have any questions on your hand BTW? :)

[13:26] < orphans> erm, don't think so...

[13:26] < Lawouach> That's okay :)

[13:26] < orphans> how does doppler ultrasound work? probably that's one for me to answer though :D

[13:26] < Lawouach> Indeed :)

[13:26] *** Davbo regrets drinking the German beer he'd never heard of last night

[13:28] < orphans> Lawouach, so is that it? Meeting meetinged?

[13:30] < Lawouach> Yeap

[13:30] < Lawouach> That'll do for this introduction :)

[13:30] < Lawouach> No reason to drag on.

[13:30] < orphans> awesome

[13:31] < Lawouach> That being said, I'm available for more questions.

[13:31] < Lawouach> Davbo: what was its name?

[13:31] < orphans> yeah, if I think of anything I'll ping you

[13:33] < Davbo> Umm lol - you know it's bad when you can't remember

[13:37] < Davbo> Paulaner Hefe-Weizen

[13:37] < Davbo> I had to look on their website lol

[13:39] < Lawouach> :)

[13:40] < Davbo> It was nice though, it's a habit of mine to pick the most obscure thing behind the bar.

[13:40] < Davbo> Stella is my cop-out

[13:41] < Lawouach> Stella is like the opposite of Aspirin.

[13:41] < Lawouach> It's meant to give you a headache

[13:41] < Davbo> Hah, :)

[13:42] < Davbo> It has a bad name, lots of teenagers know they can get drunk quick with it. :(

[13:42] < Davbo> but yeah if you get a hangover from Stella it's not a pleasant experience

[13:53] < Davbo> Making a calendar Lawouach? :)

[13:54] < Lawouach> I did :)

[13:56] < Davbo> good stuff

[13:57] < Davbo> Can we all add to it?

[13:57] < Lawouach> yeap

[13:57] < Davbo> then we could schedule our meetings and stick them on the calendar

[13:58] < Davbo> noice.

[13:58] < Davbo> :D

[13:58] < Lawouach> yes

[13:58] < Lawouach> For now I've only shared with GSoC students but I wouldn't mind opening it to everyone. I'll have to discuss it with MS- and mhrd first :)

[13:59] < Davbo> i have a feeling MS- wont want it to be official because then people can use it as an excuse "the meeting wasn't on the calendar" kinda thing

[14:00] < Davbo> better than nothing though I guess

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[14:53] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: boo

[14:53] Reply: Nice try, but that didn't scare me

[15:03] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: ecky

[15:03] Reply: Ptang!

[15:13] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: help

[15:13] Reply: Name: kamaeliabot Channel: #kamaelia

[15:13] Reply: I do a simple job -- recording all channel traffic.

[15:13] Reply: Lines prefixed by [off] won't get recorded

[15:13] Reply: I respond to the following: 'logfile', 'infofile', 'help', 'date', 'time', 'dance', 'poke', 'slap', 'ecky', 'boo', and 'reload {modulename}'.

[15:14] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: poke

[15:14] Reply: Not the eye! Not the eye!

[15:16] < MS-> Lawouach: Thanks for setting up that calendar

[15:16] < MS-> I've added the Kamaelia weekly meeting & mentor time for David, Chong, Jason & Pablo

[15:16] < MS-> If there's problems with the times, please edit the meeting

[15:16] < MS-> Moving it to when you *can* do

[15:17] < MS-> And then also adding to event details when *else* you can do as well

[15:17] < MS-> Seems far more effective than the approach of asking people to thrash it out on the mailing list

[15:19] < MS-> Davbo: I actually quite like google calendar at the moment - for this sort of thing it's quite good. For reviewing schedules on dozens of applications it sucks

[15:23] < orphans> MS-, I can't make the weekly meeting for three of them (will be sat in an exam room sobbing quietly to myself). Is Weds the best day for everyone else?

[15:24] < MS-> Which 3 ?

[15:25] < MS-> I picked it because it was the best day in terms of spread for me at present

[15:26] < orphans> 21st, 28th, 4th - three in a row

[15:26] < MS-> Add the note to the event details initially with a note of when you CAN make it

[15:26] < MS-> 14th I guess

[15:26] < MS-> I'll hang around those weeks in your mentor time then if that's easier?

[15:27] < MS-> That or start a thread on the google group?

[15:27] < MS-> That may be easier

[15:27] < MS-> And I'll try again :)

[15:27] < orphans> thread to see when other people can do it?

[15:27] < MS-> yep. It's preferable to have it on a day that people *don't* have their mentor trapped for an hour

[15:28] < MS-> :)

[15:28] < MS-> It may well be that wednesday is bad for everyone

[15:28] < MS-> We can also move it to a better time generally

[15:29] < MS-> I've picked days that work OK at the moment for me, but I know for example that I'm not anywhere near connectivity on the 13th & 27th

[15:29] < MS-> Nor the 8th

[15:30] < vmlemon_> Does that mean that Wednesday should have a health warning?

[15:30] *** vmlemon_ ducks

[15:30] < orphans> euargh, this is fun :) I'll post up on the group now.

[15:31] < MS-> orphans: Yep, organising calendars is interesting. There's various approaches you can take which is to ask people when they're ready, and hopefully they'll use the mailing list

[15:31] < MS-> which means they all rearrange & juggle directly

[15:31] < MS-> Or you can faff about a bit

[15:32] < MS-> by going through one person - which everyone seemed to do for no apparent reason (not apparent to me anyway :) )

[15:32] < MS-> or you can do what I've done which is a bit more (*&&(-minded and just say "this is when it is" and wait for screams

[15:33] < orphans> :)

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[16:48] < Davbo> MS-, http://www.dcs.shef.ac.uk/intranet/teaching/timetables/lev1sem2.htm

[16:49] < Davbo> can't really do that time on tuesda

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[16:53] < j_baker> So does anyone have any reccommendations for a good gnome based python IDE/text editor?

[16:53] < Davbo> Gedit

[16:55] < j_baker> Is there a plugin that needs to be installed? Gedit just doesn't seem good as a programming text editor...

[16:55] < vmlemon_> Hi Trun

[16:56] < Davbo> hmm, can't remember j_baker

[16:56] < Davbo> maybe

[16:57] < j_baker> I should say that openSUSE is working well now.

[16:57] *** bcarlyon|laptop has joined #kamaelia

[16:57] < j_baker> (although my wireless card still isn't working)

[16:57] < j_baker> ralink drivers appear to be a giant pain.

[16:58] < Davbo> using ndiswrapper?

[16:59] < j_baker> I don't believe so. But I could have missed it somewhere.

[17:00] < Davbo> ndiswrapper allows you to use the Windows drivers for the wlan card

[17:00] < Davbo> (some of the time )

[17:00] < Davbo> :)

[17:01] < j_baker> Interesting.

[17:02] < j_baker> Oh well, I've got my computer upstairs on a hardwired ethernet connection, so it should be good now.

[17:02] < j_baker> Although, I doubt I would be able to use ndiswrapper now that I think about it.

[17:02] < j_baker> I'm using openSUSE on a PPC machine, not an x86.

[17:04] *** Trun has joined #kamaelia

[17:04] < Trun> hi all

[17:05] < j_baker> hola

[17:06] < Trun> :-) speak spanish?

[17:06] < j_baker> I know how to say hola. :)

[17:06] < Trun> :-)

[17:07] < Trun> what editor do you guys usually use?

[17:08] < j_baker> For what OS?

[17:08] < Trun> linux

[17:08] < j_baker> Davbo tells me that gedit is a pretty good editor.

[17:08] < j_baker> http://www.instructables.com/id/Using-Gedit-as-a-Python-IDE/

[17:08] < j_baker> I found those instructions on using it as a python IDE

[17:09] < Trun> aham

[17:10] < Trun> I'm quite used to vim but I don't really like it too much :-(

[17:10] < j_baker> I despise vim and emacs.

[17:11] < Trun> no, not at all

[17:11] < Trun> I mean, I really use it because I started some time ago using it and just made used to it

[17:11] < Trun> but I really would like to change to "something else more compfortable"

[17:12] < Trun> I'm not going to defend vim or anything like that :-)

[17:13] < Trun> I might try again eric: http://www.die-offenbachs.de/eric/index.html

[17:13] < Trun> but I was just curious about what people use

[17:19] < j_baker> Thus far, I'm kinda new to linux. I'm used to windows and OS X.

[17:19] < j_baker> And the programs that I use there aren't really cross-platform

[17:37] < j_baker> brb

[17:37] *** j_baker has parted #kamaelia

[17:51] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[18:05] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[18:16] *** j_baker has joined #kamaelia

[18:16] < MS-> Hi

[18:16] *** j_baker likes KDE 4.

[18:16] *** MS- reads back

[18:16] < vmlemon_> Hi j_baker

[18:16] *** MS- uses the editor "kate" in KDE.

[18:17] < MS-> Before that I used to use joe

[18:17] < j_baker> hello vmlemon_

[18:17] < MS-> and still use joe when doing editting on the command line

[18:17] < MS-> I used emacs for a while but found it a PITA

[18:17] < MS-> and only use vi when I have to.

[18:17] < vmlemon_> Hmm, do people still use joe, these days?

[18:18] < MS-> vmlemon_: Yep - I know I do

[18:18] < MS-> I believe Alan Cox does as well

[18:18] < j_baker> I wish I could get a Linux version of TextMate. :(

[18:18] < MS-> You could write a version

[18:18] < MS-> :)

[18:19] < j_baker> But that involves WORK.

[18:19] < j_baker> :P

[18:19] < MS-> heh

[18:19] < MS-> Not tried textmate under os x

[18:19] < MS-> I downloaded and installed joe there :-p

[18:19] < j_baker> So is there anything that will be exceptionally different from the SVN version of Axon/Kamaelia to the megabundle?

[18:20] < vmlemon_> I was under the impression that it was dead/seldom used, since hardly anyone talks about it

[18:20] < j_baker> Textmate is awesome, but it is paid software.

[18:20] < j_baker> Well worth the price IMO though.

[18:20] < MS-> vmlemon_: That's what happens when a tool just works :)

[18:20] < MS-> j_baker: *thinking*

[18:20] < vmlemon_> BBEdit, anyone?

[18:20] < j_baker> BBEdit is WAY too expensive.

[18:21] < j_baker> Although TextWrangler is a pretty darn good lite version.

[18:21] < MS-> The megabundle will be *way* out of date now

[18:21] < MS-> because there's not been a new release in ages

[18:21] < vmlemon_> I used to use Lite version, eons ago

[18:21] < MS-> But I couldn't tell you off the top of my head differences

[18:21] < vmlemon_> When they made it

[18:21] < j_baker> np.... I'll use the SVN version.

[18:21] < MS-> I do know that there's been bugfixes in the core of the TCP stack

[18:22] < MS-> even /trunk is lagging behind where it should be

[18:22] < MS-> (I got into a rather bad habit of having a *very* large branch)

[18:22] < MS-> (large in terms of differences)

[18:23] < vmlemon_> I still wonder why people pay for something as humble as humble as a text editor

[18:23] < MS-> Free (pick a definition) alternatives on windows & mac os x tend to suck

[18:24] < MS-> last time I looked

[18:24] < j_baker> Well, windows has notepad++ which is a VERY awesome text editor in my opinion.

[18:24] < MS-> Or simply aren't advertised

[18:24] < j_baker> OS X has some decent text editors, but none as good as TextMate.

[18:25] < j_baker> MS- will the Axon setup.py try to re-build python?

[18:25] < MS-> Trun: regarding your email - I guess by "have a doubt", you mean "have a question" ? I've seen that language form before and it looks a little odd, but I'm guessing you mean a question?

[18:25] < MS-> j_baker: what do you mean?

[18:26] < MS-> setup.py buiild

[18:26] < MS-> copies everything referenced in the setup.py file - which is in this case Axon/*

[18:26] < vmlemon_> *as humble as

[18:26] < MS-> into a build directory

[18:26] < MS-> then compiles the files to bytecode

[18:26] < MS-> "install"

[18:27] < MS-> copies then whole shebang into site-packages - where ever that is on your system

[18:27] < MS-> It won't try to recompile the python binary, if that's what you mean

[18:28] < MS-> (reason I say that is because there was an issue with the CPAN shell a few years back, that installing certain perl packages meant the CPAN shell would try to download and install the newest version of perl

[18:28] < MS-> which was a pain

[18:28] < j_baker> brb

[18:28] < MS-> Davbo: Saw your message about not able to do that time tuesdays

[18:28] < vmlemon_> Ouch, I've just noticed that the number of items scattered on my desktop has reached 139

[18:29] < MS-> Clearly that won't hold when we hit the summer

[18:29] < MS-> So my suggestion would be to move it to another time/day until June

[18:30] < MS-> Probably a different day if you're doing everything on that timetable...

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[18:30] < j_baker> Heh...

[18:30] < j_baker> I just discovered why KDE 4 is still a "preview version"

[18:31] < vmlemon_> Lots of display bugs in it, here

[18:32] < vmlemon_> (e.g. text in popup menus in Konqueror overwrites itself and leaves a black trail whilst scrolling)

[18:33] < vmlemon_> *text overwrites

[18:33] < vmlemon_> Ugh, I didn't typo, but "corrected" myself

[18:34] < j_baker> Anyway, when I try to run setup.py install, it gives me the error:

[18:34] < j_baker> error: invalid Python installation: unable to open /usr/lib/python2.5/config/Makefile (No such file or directory)

[18:34] *** MS- ponders

[18:34] < j_baker> Am I missing some dependency?

[18:35] < MS-> What does

[18:35] < MS-> rpm -ql python-devel

[18:35] < MS-> give you?

[18:36] < j_baker> package is not installed.

[18:36] < MS-> That'll be it then

[18:36] < MS-> cf:

[18:36] < j_baker> I'll see if I can install that one.

[18:36] < MS-> ~> rpm -qf /usr/lib/python2.5/config/Makefile

[18:36] < MS-> python-devel-2.5.1-39.2

[18:42] < MS-> Trun: What is the time where you are now?

[18:42] < MS-> I think it's about 8:45pm, but want to check I've got my timezones right

[18:46] < orphans> hey all, quick stupid "I can't find it in the docs" question - how do you unpack a tuple so you can pass it in a function i.e. dothis(tuple.somemethod()) where def dothis(a, b)

[18:46] < orphans> and tuple is (a, b)

[18:47] < MS-> dothis(*tuple)

[18:48] < orphans> cheers MS-

[18:48] < MS-> >>> def say(greet, who): print greet, who

[18:48] < MS-> ...

[18:48] < MS-> >>> bla = ("hello", "world")

[18:48] < MS-> >>>

[18:48] < MS-> >>> say(*bla)

[18:48] < MS-> hello world

[18:48] < MS-> you're welcome

[18:49] < Trun> MS-: yeah, I meant "I have a question" (sorry for my english 0:-D), and yeah, its 8:49pm here

[18:50] < MS-> Trun: re english, don't apologise - was just checking :-) (I suck at other (human) languages, so you're way ahead of me ;) :-) )

[18:50] < MS-> Cool.

[18:51] < MS-> I'll reply to your question on the mailing list if that's OK

[18:51] < Trun> sure

[18:51] < MS-> It's preferable to keep communications on the list unless there's a good reason to not to

[18:52] < MS-> Good reasons include "will this potentially embarass the other person". (Personally I don't mind being embarassed, but it's not nice to embarass people IMO if you can avoid it)

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[18:55] < orphans> I made a pygame component :D

[18:56] < j_baker> congrats

[18:56] < orphans> I would take a screenshot, but it's slightly underwhelming...

[18:57] < MS-> orphans: Well done

[18:58] < j_baker> pygame is OpenGL stuff right?

[18:58] < orphans> SDL

[18:58] < orphans> so yeah, can be or just framebuffer stuff

[18:59] < j_baker> Interesting. You should go program the next Crysis now. :P

[18:59] < orphans> yeah, screw SoC, Ima be a game developing rockstar!!!

[18:59] < vmlemon_> Hah

[19:00] < vmlemon_> The GSoC game?

[19:00] < orphans> :)

[19:00] < j_baker> I propose the GSoC game should be a first person shooter.

[19:00] < MS-> orphans: heh

[19:00] < j_baker> MS- I got it to install. :)

[19:00] < MS-> cool

[19:01] < j_baker> It was that package that was missing.

[19:01] < MS-> I'll never understand why linux distros do that seperation

[19:01] < MS-> None of the python devs understand it

[19:01] < j_baker> Yeah, kind of a pain.

[19:02] < j_baker> You'd figure it would be installed with the main python package if you need it to install software.

[19:02] < vmlemon_> Ship the damn headers, it makes life so much easier, and adds little bulk!

[19:04] < MS-> j_baker: If we had the weekly group meeting on thursdays at 4pm UK time - 10am your time would that be OK for you? Also if that was the case would sunday evenings UK time) or monday evenings (uk time) (so early-mid afternoon for you I guess) work out OK for you?

[19:04] < MS-> for the "mentor in a headlights" time?

[19:04] < MS-> (just planning an email reply to orphans on the list)

[19:04] < MS-> (easier to track things there, but just wanted to check with you here)

[19:05] < j_baker> Really either one should work for me. Let me check my schedule for next semester and make sure that the weekly meeting time is OK.

[19:05] < j_baker> Or for the summer rather.

[19:06] < MS-> OK, let's tentatively suggest monday 7pm UK time, 1pm your time then

[19:07] *** Davbo is okay with 7pm uk time

[19:07] < Davbo> MS- it's difficult to say when i have lectures at the moment

[19:07] < Davbo> changes week to week

[19:08] < j_baker> Ok, in actuality, Sun would work best for me for mentoring session. As for the weekly meeting, 10AM on Thur should work perfectly.

[19:11] < Davbo> Could my hour mentor be moved to some time thursday MS-?

[19:12] < Davbo> Perhaps just before the weekly meeting?

[19:12] < Davbo> like 2.30 on thurs

[19:12] < MS-> Davbo: No, not the same day as the weekly meeting

[19:13] < Davbo> Any time on Weds is good with me

[19:13] < MS-> afk for a bit (sorry)

[19:13] < MS-> I'm writing up when works

[19:14] < MS-> will post later

[19:14] < MS-> (This approach for organising a meeting really doesn't work)

[19:15] < MS-> (people didn't do the thing I asked which was to post their availability to the list)

[19:15] *** MS- is now known as ms-away

[19:15] < ms-away> (afk due to dinner/etc :) )

[19:15] *** vmlemon_ keeps thinking that j_baker is over here (in the UK), for some reason...

[19:20] < Davbo> Heh, i'd post to the list if i myself could confidently say when i'm available lol

[19:22] < Davbo> oh ms-away, Monday 11-12 (what's on the calendar atm) is fine with me :)

[19:46] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[19:53] < j_baker> biab

[19:53] *** j_baker is now known as j_baker-away

[20:18] *** j_baker-away is now known as j_baker

[20:18] < j_baker> back

[20:18] < j_baker> So I really like KDevelop.

[20:29] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[20:32] *** Davbo has parted #kamaelia

[20:33] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[20:56] *** Davb1 has joined #kamaelia

[20:56] *** Davb1 sighs

[21:00] < j_baker> Problems, Davb1?

[21:01] *** Davb1 has parted #kamaelia

[21:02] < j_baker> I'll take that as a yest.

[21:02] < j_baker> a yes even

[21:26] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[21:33] < j_baker> Are there any open source flash alternatives for linux?

[21:33] < j_baker> Adobe has an x86 linux version of flash and a PPC OS X version, but not a PPC linux version.

[21:34] < vmlemon_> Other than Gnash, which sucks and was barely functional last I time tested?

[21:35] < j_baker> Heh... so I take that as a no?

[21:35] < vmlemon_> Pretty much, unless a miracle occurs

[21:36] < j_baker> Hmmm... I wonder if the OS X version of flash will work?

[21:38] < vmlemon_> You could try Mac-on-Linux, if you have a copy of Mac OS X, but it's far from an optimal solution :(

[21:39] < j_baker> Hmmm... I may just have to be flash-less

[21:39] < vmlemon_> (It's pretty much VMware for PowerPC OSes)

[21:41] < vmlemon_> The joys of proprietary file formats with little support on "obscure" platforms

[21:41] < j_baker> Indeed.

[21:41] < j_baker> I wouldn't figure it would be that much work to port it over.

[21:42] < j_baker> But then again, I'm far from an expert on CPU architectures.

[21:43] < vmlemon_> You could always try out Gnash in the meantime to see if they've improved it in the meantime, though

[21:43] < vmlemon_> I can't see an immediate technical barrier, though

[21:45] < vmlemon_> (They solved the endianness, UNIXesque OS, and non-x86 architecture problems a long time ago)

[21:46] < vmlemon_> Although they supposedly can't/won't port to 64-bit platforms

[21:48] < Davbo> YAY!

[21:48] < Davbo> http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=152539

[21:48] < Davbo> http://www.edimax.eu/en/support_detail.php?pl1_id=1&pl1_idSelect=support.php%3Fpl1_id%3D1%26mwsp%3D1&pd_id=1#01

[21:48] < Davbo> A WLAN card with open source linux drivers

[21:49] < Davbo> I never thought i'd see the day

[21:49] < j_baker> heh... now THAT is awesome.

[21:49] < vmlemon_> Yay indeed

[21:49] < j_baker> After last night's wireless driver fiasco, I have a newfound appreciation for good linux drivers.

[21:50] < vmlemon_> Fully open? Or "open with a closed bit at the core"?

[21:51] < vmlemon_> Did you ever make it work?

[21:52] < j_baker> Nope.

[21:52] < j_baker> I've got my computer hardwired up though

[21:52] < j_baker> Which is probably better anyway

[21:52] < j_baker> But it's time for me to go to my job. :(

[21:52] < j_baker> talk to you guys later.

[21:53] *** j_baker has parted #kamaelia

[21:55] < vmlemon_> I had a cheap MP3/MPEG-4 in AVI player that worked on Linux perfectly as a USB Mass Storage device, but didn't work with Windows at all

[21:55] < vmlemon_> Somewhat ironically

[22:00] < vmlemon_> Despite Microsoft claiming to support more hardware than anyone else...

[22:04] < Davbo> Anyone know where i can find the RRP of an intel processor?

[22:04] Reply: Hm?

[22:04] < Davbo> intel site seems to be somewhat difficult to traverse

[22:04] < vmlemon_> Intel's own UK site?

[22:04] < vmlemon_> Aah

[22:05] < Davbo> I want to find out if http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=736334

[22:05] < Davbo> is marked up from RRP

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[22:09] < ms-away> Trun: are you still there?

[22:09] *** ms-away is now known as ms-

[22:10] *** ms- reads j_baker's comment about sundays

[22:11] < ms-> I just want to re-iterate that GSOC is NOT an extra add on

[22:11] < ms-> for students

[22:12] < ms-> I'm not a fan of doing meetings on weekends, since whilst I am often around at weekends

[22:12] < ms-> It's the one time of the week I don't have any commitments.

[22:12] < ms-> Same for saturday

[22:13] < ms-> *shrug* I'm sure j_baker didn't mean that by it :)

[22:14] < Davbo> That time okay with you on monday ms-?

[22:14] < ms-> Does it work for you?

[22:14] < Davbo> great for me

[22:14] < ms-> Excellent :)

[22:14] < ms-> I hate monday mornings :)

[22:14] < Davbo> same

[22:14] < Davbo> :)

[22:14] < ms-> So I may be a bit dopey

[22:14] < Davbo> hehe

[22:14] *** bcarlyon|laptop wonders when ms- isnt dopey....

[22:14] < ms-> But hey, it'll be a good start to the week for me

[22:15] < Davbo> Well i think it will be a good time to review what i've done over the weekend

[22:15] < ms-> bcarlyon|laptop: The problem is I think I'm naturally nocturnal

[22:15] < Davbo> and schedule that week

[22:15] < ms-> bcarlyon|laptop: and the world isn't

[22:15] < bcarlyon|laptop> ll

[22:15] < bcarlyon|laptop> lol*

[22:16] < vmlemon_> Join the club...

[22:16] < ms-> Davbo: Indeed. Though bear in mind I don't *expect* anyone to work at the weekend as part of GSOC. I do Kamaelia stuff as often as I do, because it matters to me :)

[22:16] *** vmlemon_ is a night-owl/feels more awake in the evening

[22:16] < ms-> Indeed

[22:17] < Davbo> Well TBH the weekend are non-discrete in my holidays anywho :P

[22:17] < vmlemon_> No idea why, but some people are like that...

[22:17] < bcarlyon|laptop> agreed

[22:18] < Davbo> Anyone got a motherboard recommendation for a http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=736334

[22:19] *** Davbo is thinking of moving to Gigabyte this time

[22:22] *** vmlemon_ is sick of looking at CSS, now

[22:22] < vmlemon_> (I never was a big fan of it, anyway)

[22:23] < ms-> Davbo: I use laptops these days

[22:23] < ms-> I've got a tower case pc that I don't use (and have long since scavenged for parts)

[22:24] < Davbo> I play a lot of games with my friends which is what this is for :)

[22:24] < Davbo> mine is really out of date now, I can't keep up with them ;)

[22:24] < ms-> Does mean a complete machine upgrade when I change, but as machines have gotten faster, I've upgraded less often and also been buying at the low end of the spectrum

[22:24] < ms-> As a result, I have no idea what you'd plug that CPU into

[22:24] < ms-> :-)

[22:25] *** vmlemon_ wonders what happened to PCMCIA

[22:25] < Davbo> Hehehe

[22:26] < Davbo> I played lots of Team Fortress like 7 years ago now Team Fortress 2 is out and this tower can only just handle it :(

[22:27] < Davbo> It's my birthday a week today so, going to exploit that :)

[22:28] < ms-> Cool

[22:29] < vmlemon_> Kamaelia: Cake, anyone?

[22:32] < vmlemon_> The world's first concurrently baked (birthday) cake

[22:36] < vmlemon_> No idea how to make it, what would be in it, or if the result would be edible, though

[22:39] < Davbo> Anyone know a good way to salvage a hard drive that refuses to boot?

[22:39] Reply: Hm?

[22:39] < Davbo> (brother trying to rescue his disertation)

[22:40] < vmlemon_> photorec?

[22:40] < Davbo> he has a back-up that's a few days old though

[22:40] < Davbo> photorec?

[22:40] < vmlemon_> Extracting the partitions and dissecting them?

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[22:40] < Davbo> Ah

[22:41] < ms-> vmlemon_: It wouldn't contain currents

[22:41] < ms-> It's contain cherries instead

[22:41] < ms-> people would be told though it contained currents

[22:41] < ms-> so it would be a cake current con

[22:41] < ms-> or a con of a current cake

[22:41] < ms-> or con'current cake for short

[22:42] < ms-> < /grasping>

[22:42] < vmlemon_> I think it was called photorec (a tool that examined disk sectors for data and then extracted it to another disc)

[22:42] < ms-> Davbo: Can the drive be put into another machine?

[22:42] < ms-> and if so does it work then?

[22:43] < ms-> or put in an external enclosure perhaps and then plugged in?

[22:43] < ms-> Or is the drive just not even powering up?

[22:43] < Davbo> Yeah gonna stick it in mine tomorrow if we can't get it working with ultimatebootcd

[22:43] < Davbo> which apparently has photorec on there

[22:44] < vmlemon_> Hah, great pun on "concurrent"

[22:45] < vmlemon_> Raisins and sultanas?

[22:46] < ms-> Why not

[22:46] < ms-> :-)

[22:49] < vmlemon_> You could have white icing and the Kamaelia logo on top, too...

[22:50] < vmlemon_> (Kit-Kat cake, then?)

[23:00] *** ms- groans

[23:18] < Lawouach> see that's it. You go for one drink and you end up coming back home 7 hours later.

[23:18] < ms-> heh

[23:19] < Lawouach> anyway

[23:19] < Lawouach> :)

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