[04:16] *** sadrul has joined #kamaelia

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[06:00] *** j_baker has joined #kamaelia

[07:56] *** Chong- has joined #kamaelia

[07:56] < Chong-> Good morning, all.

[08:14] *** mhrd_afk has joined #kamaelia

[08:18] *** Lawouach_ has joined #kamaelia

[08:18] < Lawouach_> morning

[08:20] < Chong-> hi, Lawouach_

[08:22] *** ms- has parted #kamaelia

[08:35] *** mhrd_afk finally fixes his borked google groups membership (no thanks to google!)

[08:35] *** mhrd_afk is now known as mhrd

[08:36] *** mhrd is now known as mkrd

[08:36] < mkrd> hmm

[08:36] < Lawouach_> what had happened?

[08:36] < mkrd> whenever I tried to access anything through the web interface I got stuck on a "you need to update your settings" form

[08:36] < Lawouach_> huh?

[08:37] < mkrd> so I couldn't subscribe to stuff, look at help groups etc

[08:37] < Lawouach_> weird

[08:37] < mkrd> this person had the same problem, but found a fix: http://groups.google.com/group/Is-Something-Broken/browse_thread/thread/d6fc877aed851467

[08:37] < mkrd> could only read his solution by logging out of my google account :-)

[08:47] *** orphans has joined #kamaelia

[09:39] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[09:53] < vmlemon_> Hi

[10:14] *** Uraeus has joined #kamaelia

[11:02] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[11:25] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: ecky

[11:25] Reply: Ptang!

[12:08] *** orphans has joined #kamaelia

[12:11] < vmlemon_> Hi orphans

[12:15] < orphans> hey vmlemon_

[12:16] < orphans> my report is finally finished - off to hand it in soon :D

[12:16] < vmlemon_> Yay

[12:16] < orphans> ~6000 words - I'm pretty proud of it (although it's a little short. *sigh*)

[12:18] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[12:24] < Davbo> afternoon all

[12:24] < vmlemon_> Hi Davbo

[12:35] < Davbo> Woo!

[12:35] < Davbo> Repair Finished()

[13:53] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[14:12] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: dance

[14:12] Reply: does the macarena

[14:35] < Davbo> So, how is everyone today?

[14:38] < Lawouach_> Doing good :)

[14:44] < Davbo> cool :)

[14:48] < Davbo> this guy emailed me some work he did on the group project and it wont even compile, 9 errors :|

[15:32] < Lawouach_> Foor for thought: http://www.defuze.org/archives/12-From-subversion-to-mercurial.html

[15:40] < Lawouach_> gotta go home

[15:41] < Davbo> Interesting Lawouach

[16:24] < Davbo> dave@KING-2:~> history|awk '{a[$2]++ } END{for(i in a){print a[i] " " i}}' |sort -rn|head

[16:24] < Davbo> 96 javac

[16:24] < Davbo> 81 java

[16:24] < Davbo> 41 cd

[16:24] < Davbo> 17 su

[16:24] < Davbo> 13 svn

[16:24] < Davbo> hehe :)

[16:24] *** Davbo is interested in others results

[16:26] < Lawouach> back

[16:28] < Davbo> python only has 10 since i installed opensuse

[16:28] < Davbo> what you get Lawouach?

[16:28] < Lawouach> Well I've reinstalled last week

[16:29] < Lawouach> so might not be conclusive

[16:29] < Lawouach> definitely isn't :)

[16:29] < Davbo> hehe, same here :)

[16:41] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[16:49] *** vmlemon_ wonders if a list of the minimal number of DLLs required for running Windows CLI apps exists

[16:49] < vmlemon_> Damn, wrong channel

[16:50] *** mkrd shrugs - make something minimal in visual studio and run in debug mode, then watch the loading dll loglines fly up, screenfull after screenfull :-)

[16:50] *** mkrd is now known as mhrd

[17:03] < vmlemon_> Hah, surprisingly, to run some of them shipped with Windows XP under Wine required about 7 DLLs copying over

[17:05] < vmlemon_> Wine probably has internal versions of the others

[17:07] < Lawouach> vmlemon_: why not using mono?

[17:08] < Davbo> Anyone here use Twitter?

[17:09] < Lawouach> I don't. Not even registered.

[17:10] < vmlemon_> Mono is interesting, but isn't useful for what I'm trying to do (run Windows-shipped utilities on OSes other than Windows)

[17:11] *** Davbo wants more people to follow on twitter :(

[17:11] < Davbo> Thought it would be cool since you can update it from anywhere

[17:11] < Davbo> via sms

[17:13] < vmlemon_> Anyone else tried Get Satisfaction?

[17:13] *** Davbo just wants a use for his phone

[17:14] < vmlemon_> J2ME IRC client?

[17:14] < Davbo> tesco value don't let you connect to gprs lol

[17:15] < Davbo> cheap though :D

[17:15] < vmlemon_> Ouch

[17:15] < Davbo> I used to have a windows mobile..

[17:15] < Davbo> it did too much

[17:15] < Davbo> so i bought a crap phone and cheap sim

[17:15] < vmlemon_> No "Tesco Finest Mobile"?

[17:16] < vmlemon_> You found that it could do too much? Interesting

[17:19] < vmlemon_> After using S60/Symbian for a while, I've found everything before it to be as much of a step back as monochrome TV...

[17:19] < Davbo> Yeah it had too much functioanlity

[17:19] < Davbo> made it slow

[17:19] < Davbo> back in a bit

[17:20] < vmlemon_> Although I'm a fan of Kitchen Sink Devices

[17:21] *** mhrd is now known as mhrd-afk

[17:31] < vmlemon_> Davbo: Sure it wasn't the Windows bit that made it slow?

[17:32] < Lawouach> vmlemon_: I don't quite understand what you meant by "Windows cli" then

[17:33] < vmlemon_> Windows CLI being the rudimentary set of command line tools and cmd.exe that ship with Windows

[17:34] < Lawouach> alright

[17:34] < Lawouach> hence the misunderstanding

[17:35] < vmlemon_> Aah, no problem

[17:37] < vmlemon_> Cygwin and GNUWin32 are probably better for doing CLI stuff on it, of course...

[17:52] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[17:53] < Davbo> i'm sure the Windows bit did make it slow lol vmlemon_ :)

[17:54] *** sadrul has joined #kamaelia

[18:05] < orphans> eauargh - question to anyone who has any idea: what the best way to distribute pyrex bindings to a c lib which works on more than one platform/version of python

[18:06] < vmlemon_> I'm sure that Samsung designed this particular phone model for masochists, since I found it awful and clunky to use when I got it, not to mention that it has far too few features and a GUI that gets slower in use

[18:08] < vmlemon_> Text entry is inconsistent, and it doesn't support typing square or curly brackets, but oddly has full Greek support

[18:11] < vmlemon_> It doesn't even have a camera, or Bluetooth

[18:13] < vmlemon_> But can send MMS messages, rather oddly

[19:16] *** MS- has joined #kamaelia

[19:16] < MS-> evening

[19:17] *** MS- reads logs

[19:17] < vmlemon_> Hi MS-

[19:19] *** j_baker has joined #kamaelia

[19:19] < MS-> Hi vmlemon_ , j_baker

[19:19] < j_baker> Hello MS-

[19:19] < Lawouach> hi MS-

[19:19] < orphans> evening all :)

[19:20] < orphans> except j_baker who I suppose is still somewhere stuck in the morning?

[19:20] *** orphans can't do timezones

[19:20] < j_baker> It's the afternoon for me

[19:21] < j_baker> 2:17 PM

[19:21] < MS-> That's still morning

[19:21] < j_baker> I think there's a 6 hour time difference

[19:21] < Lawouach> hey orphans, so when should we meet this weekend?

[19:21] < Lawouach> could do tomorrow after lunch if you'd like

[19:21] < orphans> Lawouach, yeah, sounds cool. About 2?

[19:22] < Lawouach> 2 GMT so 3 for me. Sounds good to me :)

[19:22] < orphans> k, cool

[19:25] < j_baker> Sigh... so I didn't do so well on my 7:30AM final yesterday.

[19:25] < j_baker> I woke up and felt terrible.

[19:26] < j_baker> Spent most of the day after that sleeping.

[19:27] < MS-> Sorry to hear that :/

[19:27] < MS-> orphans: eauargh - question to anyone who has any idea: what the best way to distribute pyrex bindings to a c lib which works on more than one platform/version of python

[19:27] < MS-> there's a few sets of bindings with kamaelia that we do that for

[19:28] < MS-> Which should give some ideas

[19:28] < j_baker> I know Boost has a C++/python library. I don't know how easy it would be to use it to wrap C code.

[19:28] < orphans> MS-, ahh, that's cool - you got a link I can look at?

[19:29] < MS-> vorhttp://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kamaelia/trunk/Code/Python/Bindings/

[19:29] < orphans> j_baker, it's already wrapped (by someone else) - I'm just trying to work out the easiest way to Kamaeliafy the distribution

[19:29] < j_baker> Ah, I see.

[19:29] < MS-> They get packaged up by typing

[19:29] < MS-> python setup.py sdist

[19:30] < MS-> The simplest is probably the dvb3 one

[19:30] < MS-> http://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kamaelia/trunk/Code/Python/Bindings/python-dvb3/

[19:30] < MS-> The dirac bindings are more complex

[19:30] < MS-> http://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kamaelia/trunk/Code/Python/Bindings/Dirac-0.6.0/

[19:30] < MS-> Due to dependencies

[19:30] < MS-> The most complex one is the vorbissimple one:

[19:31] < MS-> http://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kamaelia/trunk/Code/Python/Bindings/vorbissimple/

[19:31] < MS-> Since that actually creates a library which is a version of simplified access to libvorbis

[19:31] < MS-> which is here:

[19:31] < MS-> http://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kamaelia/trunk/Code/Python/Bindings/vorbissimple/libvorbissimple/

[19:31] < MS-> Which is a full C library

[19:31] < orphans> I'll get reading :)

[19:32] < MS-> And then a simple pyrex wrapper

[19:32] < MS-> As far as I'm aware,

[19:32] < MS-> the PDF in here:

[19:32] < MS-> http://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kamaelia/trunk/Code/Python/Bindings/vorbissimple/BytesToBeeps/

[19:32] < MS-> Which I wrote

[19:32] < MS-> is the only documentation that I know of on how to use libvorbis directly

[19:32] < MS-> since xiph haven't documented that on their website

[19:33] < MS-> I did offer it to them, but I don't think they have enough tuits of the right shape yet

[19:33] < orphans> mm, evince is doing funny things to that pdf

[19:34] *** MS- gets munch

[19:46] < vmlemon_> Tried Adobe Reader for Linux? It usually does a better job at rendering

[19:47] < MS-> Adobe & kpdf are both pretty good

[19:47] < vmlemon_> for somewhat obvious reasons

[19:47] < MS-> evince generally sucks in my experience

[19:49] < vmlemon_> KPDF is good, but it doesn't always display documents at full fidelity, and it seems to produce some interesting glitches

[19:49] < j_baker> Anyone here know too much about openSUSE?

[19:49] Reply: Hm?

[19:49] < MS-> What do you want to know?

[19:49] *** MS- has been using suse for a long time

[19:49] < j_baker> I just installed it on my G5, and I'm trying to get my wireless card drivers installed.

[19:49] < MS-> Ah

[19:50] < vmlemon_> They've probably fixed some of those issues, now

[19:50] < j_baker> The problem is that it wants the directory to my kernel sources, and I don't know where they are.

[19:50] < MS-> /usr/src/linux

[19:50] < MS-> Though that's usually the wrong location to give

[19:50] < MS-> hold on

[19:51] < MS-> cd /lib/modules/`uname -r`/source

[19:51] < MS-> is the officially correct path these days

[19:52] < j_baker> I'll check that out.

[19:52] < j_baker> So far, I like openSUSE though. It seems a tad more responsive than OS X.

[19:52] < MS-> Which intriguingly is this:/usr/src/linux-2.6.22.17-0.1/

[19:52] < MS->

[19:52] < MS-> on this machine

[19:52] < j_baker> (granted the computer I've got it on is ~4 yrs old)

[19:53] < MS-> or this /lib/modules/2.6.22.17-0.1-default/source

[19:53] < vmlemon_> You could always wait for Mac OS Y or Z...

[19:55] *** j_baker is now known as j_baker-windows

[19:55] < j_baker-windows> brb

[19:55] < j_baker-windows> Computer's downstairs so I have to get on my laptop.

[19:59] *** j_baker has joined #kamaelia

[19:59] < vmlemon_> How is proprietary media format support on OpenSuSE on PowerPC? Worse than/better than x86?

[19:59] < vmlemon_> Or roughly parallel?

[19:59] < j_baker> Have no idea. Just installed it last night.

[20:00] < j_baker> (not to mention that I haven't used it on x86)

[20:00] < vmlemon_> OK, was just curious

[20:01] < vmlemon_> Aah

[20:05] < j_baker> Hmmm... the sources aren't there. :s

[20:06] < vmlemon_> Have you installed the sources package?

[20:07] < vmlemon_> For that matter

[20:08] < j_baker> I don't recall installing that. I suppose I'd better check the install DVD then...

[20:11] < orphans> MS-, re: pyrex stuff - I get how the individual things are packaged up, but at what point are they compiled into .pyd or .so files? Is that before you distribute it, or on the user's pc?

[20:11] < MS-> We've generally packaged things up for linux

[20:12] < MS-> so python setup.py sdist gives a source distribution

[20:12] < MS-> theoretically on windows

[20:12] < MS-> you could do

[20:12] < MS-> python setup.py bdist

[20:12] < MS-> But since I don't use windows I don't know

[20:12] < orphans> what's a source distribution?

[20:12] < MS-> something you unpack

[20:12] < MS-> and type

[20:12] < MS-> sudo python setup.py install

[20:12] < MS-> to install :)

[20:12] < orphans> so just a tarball of all of the stuff :)

[20:13] < MS-> essentially, but it also create eggs

[20:13] < MS-> which are people just being annoying really

[20:13] < MS-> whilst trying to make things easier

[20:14] < vmlemon_> Hmm, similar to "real" snake eggs?

[20:15] < vmlemon_> Or I assume that's where the name comes from

[20:15] < orphans> OK, so I think I get it but am still none the wiser as to what would be the best way to package this library - I'll expand a bit :)

[20:16] < orphans> it's basically the MIDI library I was thinking of using, which has been wrapped using pyrex. ATM they distribute it with a horrible mish-mash of binaries and compile-it-yourself stuff

[20:17] < orphans> one of the problems is it has to link against different stuff depending on the OS (alsa for *nix, coreaudio for OSX) - how does that fit in with doing this sort of distribution?

[20:17] < vmlemon_> Yuck, sounds really tangled

[20:18] < orphans> the other problem is that although the c library is packaged for some distros there's no windows or osx installer, and no package for some other distros

[20:18] < MS-> vmlemon_: No idea. What with eggs in a cheese shop there's times I just wish that python people would actually look properly at what Perl does and learn rather than go "oooh, perl must be wrong"

[20:18] < MS-> orphans: The setup.py file controls compilation

[20:19] < MS-> and if you look at it, you'll see that what gets build depends on structures you pass into a setup function

[20:19] < MS-> If you do some conditional stuff before then it's actually not too bad

[20:19] < orphans> MS-, yeah, but don't you run that before distribution - giving everything pre-compiled?

[20:19] < MS-> For a bdist yes

[20:20] < MS-> not for an sdist

[20:20] < MS-> hm

[20:20] < MS-> I think

[20:20] < MS-> The setup.py file for Kamaelia grey for example

[20:21] < MS-> Has support for conditional stuff, which looking at it I note I've essentially commented out

[20:21] < MS-> hmmm

[20:21] < MS-> odd

[20:21] < MS-> gives an idea though

[20:21] < MS-> http://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kamaelia/branches/private_MPS_Scratch/Apps/Kamaelia-Grey/setup.py?revision=3684&view=markup

[20:21] < MS-> Ah this is better

[20:21] < MS-> http://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kamaelia/branches/private_MPS_Scratch/Apps/Kamaelia-Logger/DistBuild/setup.py.src?revision=3844&view=markup

[20:22] < orphans> yeah, that's roughly what the setup.py file which is distributed with the wrapper looks like

[20:23] < orphans> I still don't really understand at what point that setup.py gets called though - on who's PC does the binding get built?

[20:24] < orphans> *whose

[20:29] < vmlemon_> Presumably on that of the person downloading the package

[20:31] < vmlemon_> Or at least parts are

[20:32] < MS-> orphans: Depends on whether its a bdist or an sdist really

[20:33] < orphans> ahh, so sdist=user's pc and bdist=dev's pc

[20:33] < MS-> Essentially

[20:33] < MS-> http://docs.python.org/lib/module-distutils.html is a useful jumping off point

[20:33] < MS-> and links to a couple of useful resources

[20:34] < MS-> See also: http://docs.python.org/dist/dist.html

[20:34] < orphans> yeah, I read the distutils stuff, just didn't really know where it fitted in with the pyrex stuff

[20:35] < Chong-> MS-: I can confirm that the setup.py works on windows. :-)

[20:35] < orphans> I was thinking it was a bit harsh on A.N Windows User having to install pyrex, mingw, vc++ etc etc just to get a binding to a library

[20:36] < Chong-> I have managed to set it up on my windows XP. though the logo cannot be setup because the default directory is usr/...

[20:36] < vmlemon_> Can't you bundle the bits up into a zip archive in precompiled form?

[20:37] < orphans> vmlemon_, yeah, that's essentially what bdist does (an exe I think, but anyways)

[20:37] < MS-> yes

[20:37] < vmlemon_> Aah

[20:38] < MS-> Chong-: Did you go to the Stallman talk yesterday

[20:38] < MS-> From what I hear I didn't miss anything I didn't already know

[20:38] < Chong-> No.:-)

[20:40] < Chong-> I suppose he might just broadcast his philosophy.

[20:43] *** vmlemon_ wished that they'd make "wet" cat food with a less putrid odour...

[20:46] < vmlemon_> That said, I wonder why ads proclaim the stuff to be "delicious" when most sane people wouldn't eat it to find out

[20:47] < vmlemon_> Unless they serve it in the marketing department...

[20:59] < j_baker> To me, saying that cat food is delicious just makes me want to buy it more than if they said "your cat will hate it."

[21:00] < vmlemon_> Hah

[21:03] < Chong-> So, ads works:-)

[21:10] < vmlemon_> "Screen images are simulated" and "Not actual in game footage" make me wonder, too...

[21:10] < MS-> That's a historical thing

[21:11] < MS-> Commodore got a real slap from the ASA in the 80s

[21:11] < MS-> when they launched the Amiga and showed adverts for a flightsim

[21:11] < MS-> that implied the graphics were *alot* better than they were

[21:11] < MS-> So they have to make those claims

[21:11] < MS-> (not ingame footage etc)

[21:12] < vmlemon_> Aah

[21:12] < MS-> The thing I find interesting is adverts for PS3 games that make a point of say "actual in game footage" for stuff that wouldn't've been possible in the past

[21:12] < MS-> I'm just full of useless trivia

[21:12] < MS-> :)

[21:15] < vmlemon_> They ought to actually show real in-game screen images, unless they're mind-numbingly boring, which in any case, they should scrap the ad

[21:15] < MS-> Indeed

[21:17] < vmlemon_> Device screenshots (e.g. mobile phone and PDA ones) are another fun one, too

[21:18] < vmlemon_> A lot of them say "Screen images are digitally enhanced"

[21:19] < MS-> It's possible that they may be upscaled or filtered

[21:20] < vmlemon_> If companies actually made decent products, they wouldn't need to lie about or overhype them

[21:21] < MS-> I think they would need to hype them

[21:22] < MS-> Largely because "shiny matters"

[21:25] *** orphans gives up with distutils for the evening

[21:25] < orphans> night all :)

[21:25] < MS-> orphans: cya

[21:28] < vmlemon_> Marketing-driven product development often ends up producing stuff with a laundry list of features, with the sad reality that they often perform poorly and are sometimes all but usable

[21:31] *** Lawouach has joined #kamaelia

[21:38] < vmlemon_> "It (compiles/switches on for a nanosecond before the LED blows up/can drive around a corner before the engine conks out/looks shiny) let's ship it!"

[21:38] < MS-> yep

[21:48] < j_baker-windows> Going to work, guys.

[21:48] < j_baker-windows> Later

[21:48] *** j_baker-windows has parted #kamaelia

[21:55] < vmlemon_> There's always breakable "Unbreakable Glass", "Shatterproof Rulers" that shatter, and the "Everlasting Gobstopper" that only last a day

[21:56] < vmlemon_> *lasts

[21:58] < vmlemon_> And the biggest fallacy of them all - very limited "Unlimited Broadband"...

[21:58] < MS-> heh

[21:58] < MS-> yes

[22:00] < vmlemon_> I'm sure there are plenty more

[22:00] < vmlemon_> "Express Delivery"?

[22:02] < vmlemon_> (Takes weeks to deliver, and they usually lose the item)

[22:02] < MS-> "probably the best lager in the world"

[22:02] < vmlemon_> Says who?

[22:02] < MS-> Advertisiers

[22:03] < vmlemon_> "Safety Features" that kill more people than they actually save?

[22:05] < vmlemon_> "Child-proof Lids" that are easy for kids to open?

[22:07] < vmlemon_> "Probably the best $THING in the (whole/entire) $PLACE"

[22:09] < vmlemon_> "Easy to open and reseal" packaging that can't be subsequently resealed?

[22:09] *** MS- changed the topic to http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/05/google_summer_of_code.html | Don't ask to ask, just ask (channel is logged: http://yeoldeclue.com/logs/

[22:10] < vmlemon_> And is a pain in the backside to open in the first place

[22:10] < MS-> Looks slightly editted

[22:10] *** MS- wonders what's been editted

[22:11] < vmlemon_> (Blister packs and containers with overtightened lids, I'm staring at you)

[22:17] *** MS- finds a certain level of irony that there's only one GSOC student here when posting that new link into the topic

[22:19] < MS-> Looks only lightly editted to improve my language a bit

[22:19] < MS-> that's cool :)

[22:24] *** vmlemon_ wonders why one of the songs in his collection has the artist tag set to "Utada Hikaru" when she isn't in it (it sounds like Oda Kazumasa, although I'm reluctant to change it, since I'm unsure)...

[22:24] < vmlemon_> The joys of obscure music and metadata

[22:25] < MS-> Maybe someone set the tag wrong on the cddb (or similar) and you ripped it and that got inserted (or it was inserted wrongly by whomever did rip it?)

[22:27] < vmlemon_> I was probably lazy/over-zealous when I tried cleaning up my metadata, since the artist tag had 3 artists in it

[22:29] < vmlemon_> Dunno why Utada was in it (mistake on the part of the Gnutella sharer?), but I probably wasn't bothered to find out

[22:34] < vmlemon_> Hmm, what would you say the logo at i9.house404.co.uk resembled? It's supposed to be an explosion, although I'm unsure myself (even though I knocked it up at 2am a few days ago)

[22:38] < Chong-> MS- : Just saw your post on BBC blog, very clear and inspiring :-)

[22:39] < Chong-> BTW, the log address is all right this time:-)

[22:41] < Chong-> It's late night on Friday. People either are in sleep or in pubs:-)

[22:45] < Chong-> vmlemon_: it's also like brain or walnut :-)

[22:46] < vmlemon_> Hah, doesn't say it to me, but it's an interesting thought

[22:47] < Chong-> :-)

[22:48] < vmlemon_> Tunnel with hands in a mixing bowl springs to mind now, after staring at it, or a deformed rose...

[22:49] < vmlemon_> I had a "oh sod it, make it shiny and it won't matter later" momemt when I I did it

[22:50] < vmlemon_> *moment

[22:50] < vmlemon_> *I

[22:53] *** Chong has joined #kamaelia

[22:54] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[22:54] *** Chong is now known as Chong-

[22:54] < vmlemon__> Damn, lost connectivity

[22:55] < Chong-> me too :-)

[22:55] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[22:57] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: dance

[22:57] Reply: does the macarena

[22:59] < MS-> OK, I'm now officially broken

[22:59] < MS-> http://www.nesta.org.uk/the-role-of-innovation-in-public-policy-david-cameron/?playvideo=1

[22:59] < Chong-> kamaeliabot: ecky

[22:59] Reply: Ptang!

[22:59] < MS-> Skip forward to about 2/3 of the way through

[23:00] < MS-> and it has Cameron singing the praises of open data and open source.

[23:00] < MS-> Linked to from here:

[23:00] < MS-> http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do?def=webcameron.davidsdiary.page&obj_id=143447

[23:00] < MS-> It's not still april is it?

[23:00] < Chong-> cool

[23:00] < MS-> Surreal is the phrase I would use!

[23:07] < Chong-> It seems that he thought open source can solve all IT problems and green can solve all social problems :-)

[23:23] < vmlemon_> No cries for "Greener open source", then? Despite it not producing a great deal of pollution anyway

[23:24] < Chong-> :-)

[23:24] < MS-> Call for purple source

[23:24] < MS-> see what happens

[23:28] < vmlemon_> I reckon that it's one of the cleaner things that people make, despite the use of electric, although it's another matter..

[23:28] < vmlemon_> .

[23:28] < MS-> Well, you do get to recycle the bits

[23:29] < MS-> rather than wastefully use new ones over and over

[23:29] < vmlemon_> At least compared to things like heavy industry

[23:30] < vmlemon_> (i.e. chemical production, power generation, and goods manufacturing)

[23:31] *** MS- nods

[23:32] < vmlemon_> And there's no equivalent to oil spills or similar, unless you count Microsoft products

[23:33] < MS-> Brian blessed on HIGNFY : http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b00b4vmf.shtml?src=ip_mp

[23:35] < vmlemon_> Tomato Source?

[23:39] < vmlemon_> OpenSauce! The Future of Condiments (TM)

[23:58] < Chong-> Got to sleep. night all.

[23:59] < Chong-> and have a nice weekend.

[23:59] *** Chong- has parted #kamaelia