[00:01] < vmlemon_> Hmm, "Tesco Value - These products minimise Tesco's costs, including simple packaging to keep the retail cost as low as possible. This range has recently expanded into small home electrical items like kettles, toasters, microwaves, vacuum cleaners, food steamers, blenders and floor heaters. The packaging of these products is in a standard design across the whole range and is increasingly being removed from the ranges in many stores."

[00:02] *** vmlemon_ wasn't aware of Tesco Value products supposedly being discontinued as a range

[00:03] < Davbo> Well goodnight chaps, i'll hopefully be on tomorrow. :)

[00:03] < vmlemon_> Night

[00:05] < MS-> night

[00:05] *** MS- is now known as ms-yawn

[00:05] *** ms-yawn is now known as ms-sleepy

[00:06] *** ms-sleepy is now known as ms-away

[01:00] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[09:29] *** orphans has joined #kamaelia

[10:40] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[10:41] < vmlemon__> Hi

[10:41] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[11:18] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: dance

[11:18] Reply: does the macarena

[12:03] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[12:05] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[12:29] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[12:30] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[12:34] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[12:53] < Davbo> Afternoon all

[12:54] < vmlemon__> Hi Davbo

[13:01] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[13:07] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[13:12] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[13:26] < vmlemon_> Hah, "This is mostly meant as a development blog so expect me to be posting various things related to Computer Science. Although you never know, I may start posting youtube videos of cats falling into toilets at any moment, so stick around and wait for that."

[13:33] < Davbo> You never know!

[13:33] < Davbo> :)

[13:33] < vmlemon_> Yay, I finally found an open Wi-Fi network

[13:33] < vmlemon_> although I can't connect to it

[13:34] < vmlemon_> (BTOpenzone)

[13:35] < Davbo> that free?

[13:36] < vmlemon_> No idea

[13:38] < vmlemon_> I can make a DHCP request on it

[13:38] < vmlemon_> Although wlassistant keeps giving a "Connection failed" mess

[13:38] < vmlemon_> *message

[13:38] < vmlemon_> Going to try the Nintendo DS on it

[13:42] < vmlemon_> Hrm, I can't use it with that

[13:43] < vmlemon_> Since the NDS only supports IEEE 802.11b networks, and that network is 802.11g-only

[13:43] < Davbo> hmm :/

[13:45] < Davbo> downloading all my email off gmail in batches of 265 lol

[13:45] < Davbo> good ol' IMAP

[13:48] < vmlemon_> Ever tried using IMAP to upload e-mail to the GMail servers?

[13:48] < vmlemon_> I did once with a load of old messages I previously got off POP3 and subsequently deleted from the GMail servers, and it was slow

[13:49] < vmlemon_> It worked, though

[13:49] < Davbo> lol, i imagine that would be slow

[13:51] *** orphans has joined #kamaelia

[13:52] < Davbo> afternoon orphans

[13:56] < vmlemon_> Hi orphans

[13:58] < orphans> afternoon all

[13:58] < orphans> hows it going?

[13:58] < Davbo> downloading my entire inbox off gmail

[13:58] < Davbo> 2574 to go :(

[13:59] < orphans> :) sounds fun

[13:59] < vmlemon_> Hmm, why do you need your whole inbox?

[13:59] < vmlemon_> Leaving GMail? Or just want to view every e-mail that you've ever received? ;)

[14:00] < Davbo> I like having 2 copies of it for some reason

[14:00] < Davbo> can't be bothered to sort the ones i want to safe

[14:00] < vmlemon_> Aah

[14:01] < Davbo> s/safe/save

[14:06] < Davbo> lol, that's a different error i've got while trying to compile

[14:06] < Davbo> "bash: javac: command not found"

[14:07] < Davbo> I forget it's not OSS yet

[14:07] < vmlemon_> What isn't?

[14:08] < Davbo> Java

[14:08] < Davbo> Sun have been saying they're getting ot open-source for ages now

[14:08] < Davbo> still some proprietary things in there though

[14:09] < vmlemon_> They said recently that they are supposedly going to open source or replace the remaining closed components

[14:09] < vmlemon_> Assuming that they're in Java, you can just decompile them, anyway

[14:09] < vmlemon_> If they're in C/C++, you're going to have less of a chance

[14:11] < Davbo> Although, just because the language is open source doesn't mean they'll open the Compiler i guess

[14:17] < Davbo> Got all my email

[14:17] < Davbo> :D

[14:21] < vmlemon_> Yay

[14:22] *** vmlemon_ wonders why they never supported IMAP to begin with, seeing as it's significantly better than POP3

[14:23] *** vmlemon_ wonders if anyone would volunteer to name their cat "Kamaelia" if they got (another) one ;)

[14:26] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: dance

[14:26] Reply: does the macarena

[14:27] < vmlemon_> Ouch, I hate to think why the Google ad on the side of the Kamaelia Group says "Looking for Insane BDSM Hentai? Find it Here - Join for Free Today! www.HentaiBondageSex.com", here :|

[14:28] < vmlemon_> Sounds scary, if you ask me

[14:31] < Davbo> Hehe, i'd name my cat Kamaelia :D

[14:32] < Davbo> also: what the...

[14:32] < vmlemon_> That's exactly what I was thinking

[14:32] < Davbo> Heh, i've got a sponsored link for "Autism Schools"

[14:33] < vmlemon_> It's now "Enter the 5th Door", "Free Google Toolbar" and "Stop Bot Attacks" here

[14:33] < vmlemon_> after refreshing the page

[14:34] < vmlemon_> Not sure if viewing it through Coral CDN makes a difference to the ads

[14:36] < Davbo> it's just page content isn't it

[14:36] < vmlemon_> I'd assume so

[14:36] < vmlemon_> Seeing as the ads are pulled in with JavaScript

[14:36] < vmlemon_> and an IFRAME

[14:36] < vmlemon_> (I think)

[14:36] < Davbo> Think so

[14:37] < vmlemon_> How fitting, on the "FIRST!!!" post, there's a Google Ad for "Blog Advertisements"...

[14:37] < vmlemon_> and "Irc Chat Rooms"

[14:38] < Davbo> Yeah, that algorithm they've got for the ad sense is generally quite accurate

[14:41] < Davbo> I always thought the conversation thing was cool in Gmail but it really comes into it's own when dealing with Mailing Lists

[14:46] < Davbo> Cool hack for the EEE, because it has a Solid state drive: vm.dirty_writeback_centisecs = 15000

[14:46] < Davbo> only write every 2.5 minutes so your drive lasts longer :)

[14:46] < Davbo> weird how those SSD have a finite amount of writes

[14:49] *** Uraeus has joined #kamaelia

[14:51] < vmlemon_> I think I'll stick to rotating HDDs

[14:51] < vmlemon_> Since I know that parts aren't going to randomly "burn out" after writing to them too many times

[14:52] < vmlemon_> (although that's common to most flash media by nature)

[14:53] < vmlemon_> Hi Uraeus

[14:53] < vmlemon_> Davbo: Windows VEEEsta? ;)

[14:53] < Davbo> nevermind "common" it's built in to those flash media

[14:54] < Davbo> it's a certainty

[14:54] < Davbo> davbo.org got its most traffic ever the day after Google announced the students :)

[14:54] < vmlemon_> Cool

[14:54] < Uraeus> hi there

[14:54] < Davbo> (still not much lol)

[14:55] < vmlemon_> Any other sections than the Davb(l)o(g)?

[14:56] < vmlemon_> I've realized that I should actually use the blog section as a well, you know... blog

[14:56] < Davbo> not really, some other sites i've hosted in the past

[14:56] < vmlemon_> *blog section of my site

[15:00] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[15:01] < vmlemon__> Damn connection

[15:01] < vmlemon__> I could always put my phone and laptop on the windowsil

[15:04] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[15:09] < Davbo> one of my friends has to hang his phone out the window on a bit of string to get a signal (he's on 3)

[15:10] < vmlemon_> Sounds fun

[15:10] < Davbo> Yeah, he dropped it once too

[15:11] < Davbo> out of a 3rd floor window, it still worked amazingly.

[15:11] < vmlemon_> With one phone I used, I had to go outside the house and stand in the middle of the street, before I could even get a single bar of signal, and when I did the call quality sucked, and it took an age to try and make a connection

[15:11] < vmlemon_> (it'd start to ring if you were lucky, before it would conk out)

[15:13] < Davbo> Yeah

[15:13] < Davbo> never had a problem finding signal with O2

[15:14] < Davbo> (Tesco Mobile uses O2's network)

[15:14] < vmlemon_> I think it was on Orange

[15:15] < vmlemon_> It was a family member's really old Motorola or Nokia, if I remember correctly that had been probably seen better days

[15:15] < vmlemon_> and they had problems with obtaining coverage on it, themselves

[15:15] < vmlemon_> http://house404.co.uk/blog/1 - if anyone's curious about my poor excuse of a blog...

[15:17] < vmlemon_> Most of the posts are things like test posts for various services/tools and a Technorati activation thing...

[15:18] < vmlemon_> Like the rest of the site, it's somewhat run down and neglected...

[15:18] < vmlemon_> I wouldn't be surprised if parts of the site don't function

[15:19] < Davbo> :)

[15:20] < Davbo> looks good to me

[15:20] < vmlemon_> You could call it "the Web's answer to the parts of industrial towns where no-one goes" ;)

[15:21] < Davbo> hehe :)

[15:22] < vmlemon_> I mostly use it for testing Drupal modules, and various single-sign-on schemes

[15:23] < Davbo> lol, ironic "various single-sign-on schemes"

[15:23] < vmlemon_> It turns out that the database tables are over 500MB for it

[15:24] < vmlemon_> (mostly IRC logs and the internal Drupal Watchdog system)

[15:24] < vmlemon_> I run OpenID and Yahoo! BBAuth at the moment on it

[15:24] < vmlemon_> and I was planning on testing Windows Live ID, but I couldn't get the module to work

[15:27] < vmlemon_> OpenID and Yahoo! BBAuth were functional last time I tested

[15:29] < vmlemon_> Yay, Konqueror just krashed

[15:30] *** j_baker has joined #kamaelia

[15:31] < vmlemon_> Hi j_baker

[15:32] < j_baker> Hello

[15:32] < vmlemon_> Davbo: I've never noticed the irony in it until now ;)

[15:33] < Davbo> :)

[15:33] < Davbo> Hey j_baker

[15:45] < vmlemon_> Hmm, did the EEE problem get sorted?

[16:04] < j_baker> So is anyone here going to take classes over the summer?

[16:21] < Davbo> I'm not j_baker, oh vmlemon_ UPS picked it up yesterday - now i wait to see how long it will take them to replace a keyboard

[16:25] < Davbo> back later

[16:30] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[16:41] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[16:43] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[16:46] *** j_baker goes to work

[16:46] *** j_baker is now known as j_baker-away

[17:43] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[17:55] < vmlemon_> Hi Davbo

[18:00] < Davbo> Hello

[18:00] < Davbo> :)

[18:23] *** vmlemon_ is listening to Tomorrow Never Knows by Oda Kazumasa [Amarok]

[18:33] < Davbo> Konversation do that vmlemon_?

[18:33] < vmlemon_> Yes

[18:34] < Davbo> how?

[18:34] < vmlemon_> I was playing with the set of scripts that I'd found

[18:34] < vmlemon_> /media

[18:34] *** Davbo is listening to Inner City Pressure by Flight of the Conchords (eponymous) [Amarok]

[18:34] < Davbo> Heh :)

[18:39] < Davbo> Stupid Java!! - you can't "switch / case statement" on a String

[18:39] < Davbo> basic bit of functionality

[18:39] < Davbo> you have to make an enumeration and it's just stupid

[18:42] *** vmlemon_ wonders if they do any other drink than Java ;)

[18:48] < Davbo> :)

[19:04] *** Davbo is listening to I'm Not There by Sonic Youth on I'm Not There [Amarok]

[19:04] < Davbo> hehe cool :)

[19:04] < Davbo> I'll stop doing that, it'll get annoying fast :P

[19:08] < Davbo> Cool how it realised that Flight of the Conchords album was self-titled and so put (eponymous) there

[19:15] < vmlemon_> o.O [20:15] [CTCP] Received CTCP-PING reply from wonknu: 70 seconds.

[19:16] < Davbo> :)

[19:23] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[19:29] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[19:59] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[20:22] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[20:41] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: dance

[20:41] Reply: does the macarena

[20:44] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[20:56] < vmlemon_> Hmm, anyone seen http://diracvideo.org/?

[21:02] < vmlemon_> Hah, "We thought of hundreds of names, most of them awful, some of them good, but most of the good ones had been used already. Tim suggested Dirac. It sounded good. It stuck. It was going to be called Camel, so maybe we had a lucky escape."

[21:33] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[21:35] < vmlemon_> Ugh, latency is really crappy here

[21:35] < vmlemon_> 61% packet loss, too

[21:35] < vmlemon_> according to ping

[21:35] < Davbo> Where you at?

[21:35] < vmlemon_> Home, at the moment

[21:36] < Davbo> 61% packet loss is kinda, really high.

[21:40] < vmlemon_> http://paster.dazjorz.com/?p=2783 - traceroute and ping to irc.freenode.net

[21:41] < vmlemon_> Whoa, the connection seems to have sped up when I put the phone next to the open window

[21:41] < vmlemon_> (rather dramatically at that, too)

[21:45] < vmlemon_> (Probably since I get 4 bars on the reception meter compared to only 1 or 2 when it's on my desk at the other side of the room)

[21:46] < vmlemon_> I assume that GSM/GPRS connection quality and having minimal obstructions help

[21:46] < vmlemon_> Presumably since radio waves don't penetrate glass and concrete very well, if I remember correctly

[21:49] *** vmlemon_ wonders why corporate rebranding exercises always produce something worse than the original

[21:51] < vmlemon_> http://www.nttdocomo.com/pr/2008/001394.html, and the recent Morrisons rebranding (who the hell thought of making everything lime green and sherbet yellow?!?) being cases in point

[21:51] < Davbo> lol

[21:52] < vmlemon_> Hrm, they either transform something decent into crap, or make something crap even worse

[21:52] < Davbo> i'm sure some have gone well

[21:53] < Davbo> what about Apple?

[21:53] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[21:53] < Davbo> did you get my message?

[21:54] < Davbo> fyi: what about Apple?

[21:55] < vmlemon__> Nope

[21:55] < vmlemon__> My connection dropped out :|

[21:55] < vmlemon__> The rainbow logo vs the solid colour versions?

[21:55] < vmlemon__> Or something else?

[21:55] < Davbo> In general they've had a brand shift

[21:56] < vmlemon__> Their product quality taking a nosedive, compared to what it was previously?

[21:56] < vmlemon__> And their focus on shiny iCrap?

[21:56] < Davbo> Hey, it worked.

[21:57] < Davbo> you can't say that the iCrap didn't work

[21:57] < Davbo> look at Apple now compared to 10 years ago

[21:57] < vmlemon__> (AKA "Milk the consumer for battery replacements by making them replace the whole thing" and "Make it fail super-prematurely to get the drones back into the stores")

[21:57] < vmlemon__> Although that's generally where most businesses are going, these days

[21:57] < vmlemon__> :(

[21:58] < Davbo> Macintosh -> Mac too

[21:58] < Davbo> that's good rebranding

[21:58] < Davbo> :P

[21:58] < vmlemon__> I assume that they're still used by long-standing customers interchangeably, though

[21:59] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[21:59] < vmlemon_> Good point about how iCrap "revitalized" Apple, though

[21:59] < Davbo> Many only know them as Mac's though

[21:59] < vmlemon_> or at least found them a new revenue/profit stream to tap into

[22:00] < vmlemon_> Which in Apple's eyes of course isn't a bad thing

[22:00] < Davbo> I'd say they've improved in general also

[22:00] < vmlemon_> It does seem that the entire Mac thing and even Apple itself are shells of their former selves, though

[22:01] *** Davbo isn't so sure

[22:01] < vmlemon_> (They have very little technology in their OS that isn't externally sourced, and they technically didn't even do the initial engineering on it)

[22:02] < Davbo> fair point

[22:02] < vmlemon_> (they bought NeXT out)

[22:02] < vmlemon_> Unlike their previous products

[22:02] < Davbo> that's how business works though

[22:02] < Davbo> Certainly clever "rebranding" but arguably better then?

[22:03] < vmlemon_> Still, it worked out well enough for them in the end, even with having to drag along a fairly large base of customers and developers kicking and screaming towards the new platform

[22:03] < Davbo> Hehe :)

[22:03] < vmlemon_> which some of them were crying out for themselves, years ago...

[22:04] < Davbo> Although in general I'd have to agree rebranding usually fails; Apple's marketting team is clearly above and beyond most

[22:04] < vmlemon_> I'd call it more of an evolution that's happened so fast it's difficult to see, though

[22:04] < vmlemon_> Although others probably disagree

[22:07] < vmlemon_> They seem to have pretty much taken the Abbey National route, though albeit in a more subtle way, and without being purchased themselves...

[22:07] < Davbo> Well, there's certainly a move from a less successful brand to one which is now huge. Call it an evolution or not a decision was clearly made to shift their market

[22:07] < Davbo> anyway i gotta finish this :P

[22:07] *** Davbo goes back to work

[22:08] < vmlemon_> (Make changes, but phase them in very slowly, whilst carefully trying not to make too many people notice)

[22:16] < vmlemon_> I assume that's their reason for dropping "Computer" from their corporate name

[23:11] < Davbo> lol - ooops! Exception in thread "main" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space