[00:12] *** bcarlyon|nub has joined #kamaelia

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[08:41] *** Chong- has joined #kamaelia

[08:42] < Chong-> Morning, everyone.

[08:42] < mhrd> morning Chong-

[08:43] < Chong-> Hi mhrd

[08:45] < Chong-> This morning, when I opened my e-mail box, received hundreds of mails from gsoc mail list

[08:47] < mhrd> :(

[08:47] < mhrd> filter filter filter

[08:48] < Chong-> yes. I have filtered them now.:-)

[08:48] *** ms-away is now known as ms-

[08:48] *** ms- is now known as MS-

[08:49] < MS-> morning

[08:49] < Chong-> It's good to introduce everyone. but it is not realistic for one to read hundreds of mails.

[08:49] < Chong-> morning, MS-

[08:49] < MS-> Chong-: As matt says - filter

[08:50] < Chong-> yep

[08:50] *** MS- notes he did actually read all the mentor introductions though :)

[08:50] < Chong-> heh:-)

[08:53] < Chong-> I think it maybe better to send all introducing mails grouped or filtered by organisations, it maybe more enjoyable to read.

[08:54] < Chong-> MS-: saw your mail as well, will reply later.

[08:54] < MS-> cool

[08:54] < MS-> I guess you're talking about the student list ?

[08:54] < MS-> (regarding the numbers of mails)

[08:57] < Chong-> yes. regarding the topic Welcome 2008 :) Reintroducing the INTRODUCTION/PROFILES Page

[09:01] < MS-> Mentors can't see the student list btw

[09:01] < mhrd> which sounds like a Good Thing right now :-)

[09:01] < MS-> We know of its existence though - much like you can't see the mentor list :)

[09:01] < MS-> mhrd: Indeed

[09:03] < Chong-> :-)

[09:08] < MS-> mhrd: Did that code.google.com thing actually do anything BTW ?

[09:08] < MS-> I saw it sent you a mail...

[09:09] < mhrd> I haven't clicked through teh link yet

[09:09] < MS-> which amused me somewhat :)

[09:09] < MS-> ah

[09:09] < mhrd> Was that your doing?

[09:09] < mhrd> you thinking of moving from sf? or setting up something separate? or somethign else?

[09:09] < MS-> Yes - Lawouach asked last night if we could move to google groups for the mailing lists, and I thought I'd see what else was there

[09:10] < mhrd> cool

[09:10] < MS-> I've been toying with code.google for SVN hosting elsewhere and it's quite nippy

[09:10] < MS-> The downside is we'd lose the cia updates

[09:10] < mhrd> the only downer I can see with code.google.com atm is that they only support single licences atm

[09:10] < MS-> which is handy

[09:10] < MS-> They do support MPL, which is what we'd need

[09:10] < MS-> (since that covers the trilicense)

[09:11] < MS-> http://cia.vc/stats/project/kamaelia/ - for those who wonder what I mean when I say cia

[09:11] < MS-> (Biggest use being svn checkin messages -> RSS feed)

[09:12] < MS-> It'd deal with the spam problem moving to gg as well

[09:12] < mhrd> approved.

[09:12] < mhrd> I found this: http://code.google.com/p/kamaelia-bejeweled/

[09:12] < MS-> I'm less convinced about shifting hosting for stuff yet, but it may be worth toying

[09:12] *** MS- looks

[09:13] < mhrd> no code yet, but some planning docs in the wiki. project was only started a few days ago

[09:14] < MS-> indeed, just saw that

[09:14] < MS-> Wonder if they'd like some help?

[09:15] < MS-> checked in a little code

[09:15] < MS-> by the looks of things as well

[09:15] < MS-> http://code.google.com/p/kamaelia-bejeweled/source/browse/trunk/src/bejeweled/

[09:17] < MS-> It's pretty good actually

[09:17] < MS-> For something clearly just started

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[09:22] *** mhrd agrees - looks like they're thinking about the right things first

[09:27] < orphans> morning all

[09:27] < MS-> orphans: Morning - and congrats :)

[09:27] < mhrd> indeed

[09:28] < orphans> cheers :)

[09:29] < orphans> heh, although I have just got dumped with ~300 bit of spammy mailing list thanks to you guys :D

[09:29] *** orphans filters and forgets

[09:29] < mhrd> I think you'll find none are from me :-)

[09:32] < orphans> heh, the best thing about the student list is that you can practically hear lh running between the various soc imformation places trying to keep them in order

[09:32] < orphans> *information

[09:45] < orphans> afk for an exam for a few hours - MS-: I'll email you the info/get myself a bit sorted out this afternoon :)

[09:48] < MS-> good luck with the exam

[09:48] < MS-> :)

[10:23] *** Uraeus has joined #kamaelia

[10:24] < Lawouach> hello

[10:32] < Chong-> Morning, Lawouach.

[10:50] < MS-> Lawouach: greetings

[10:53] < Lawouach> same :)

[11:31] < bcarlyon|lsrfm> Morning y'all

[11:32] *** bcarlyon|lsrfm now has a 2Gb ram laptop :-)

[11:32] < MS-> Morning Barry :)

[11:32] < MS-> I got one of those from Tesco a few months back

[11:32] < MS-> ;)

[11:32] < bcarlyon|lsrfm> I had ram arrive this morning....

[11:32] < MS-> (they were selling their stock of a model off cheap, and it seems lots less than it would be even from ebuyer or dabs)

[11:32] < MS-> cool

[11:33] *** MS- was being silly

[11:33] *** bcarlyon|lsrfm slaps MS-

[11:33] < MS-> ptang!

[11:34] < bcarlyon|lsrfm> indeed

[11:48] *** Lawouach_ has joined #kamaelia

[11:49] *** MS- gets lunch

[11:50] *** Lawouach_ finds the amount of noise around "to-be-RDBMS-or-not" so fruitless

[11:51] < Lawouach_> The blogosphere is at times very shallow

[11:51] < Lawouach_> Just use the right tool for the right job. People screaming RDBMS are dead are idiots as much as RDBMS fans saying RDBMS are good in any contexts are idiots

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[12:46] < vmlemon_> Hi

[12:49] < Lawouach_> hi vmlemon_

[12:49] < Lawouach_> MS-, mhrd: have you guys decided on that move to a Google list?

[12:51] < Chong-> Hi, vmlemon_.

[12:51] < Chong-> Lawouach_: I think so. You can check the log file.

[12:53] < Lawouach_> good point

[12:53] < Chong-> :-)

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[13:06] < vmlemon_> Hi bcarlyon|nub

[13:10] *** bcarlyon|nub has joined #kamaelia

[13:19] < MS-> Lawouach_: Yep, decided that last night really when you asked & j_baker supported. I was more looking at considering moving svn hosting over to google code, and still undecided on that detail

[13:22] < Lawouach_> That might be interesting although I think google has storage limit in regards to svn

[13:22] < Lawouach_> and Kamaelia is quite large on a whole

[13:22] < Lawouach_> regarding the group, that's great :)

[13:32] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[13:33] < vmlemon_> Hi again

[13:34] < MS-> I may rethink google for SVN then :)

[13:34] < MS-> I don't like thinking of storage limits

[13:35] *** vmlemon_ is reading the Ye Olde Clue blog...

[13:36] < MS-> I really ought to update the feed.cgi script to send out right timestamps for last update of the blog really

[13:36] < MS-> ah well, infinite hands/brains would be handy :)

[13:37] < vmlemon_> Hmm, does it have an RSS/Atom feed?

[13:37] < MS-> rss

[13:38] < MS-> cgi-bin/blog/feed.cgi - Just the head part of articles

[13:38] < MS-> cgi-bin/blog/food.cgi - Full text feed

[13:39] < vmlemon_> Thanks, I didn't know (since my browser doesn't show a feed icon for it, assuming that there isn't a HTML meta/link tag in the header pointing to the feeds)

[13:43] < MS-> There is a link to it, but it could be bust

[13:43] < MS-> That blog engine was really written as an exercise in dealing with permissions

[13:43] < vmlemon_> Aah

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[13:49] < craig2> Hello Michael

[13:51] < MS-> Hi craig2 - I'm there now

[13:56] < Lawouach_> MS-: The storage limit is 100MB by default but Google is willing to allocate more on a case by case

[13:57] < Lawouach_> I would be happy that we drop SF completely, their service is just bad nowadays IMO. However migrating the code migh prove more work indeed

[13:58] < MS-> indeed. I'll see

[13:58] < vmlemon_> Ouch, it looks like Orange's core network proxies break Technorati somehow

[13:59] < vmlemon_> (they produce their own 404 errors somehow, when trying to use certain functions of the Technorati site)

[14:05] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[14:08] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[14:12] < vmlemon_> Seems as if it's an issue with Konqueror, since it doesn't happen in Firefox

[14:25] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: dance

[14:25] Reply: does the macarena

[14:28] *** Uraeus has joined #kamaelia

[14:30] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[14:43] < MS-> kamaeliabot: slap

[14:43] Reply: Ouch!

[14:44] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: tickle

[14:44] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: poke

[14:44] Reply: Not the eye! Not the eye!

[14:49] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: help

[14:49] Reply: Name: kamaeliabot Channel: #kamaelia

[14:49] Reply: I do a simple job -- recording all channel traffic.

[14:49] Reply: Lines prefixed by [off] won't get recorded

[14:49] Reply: I respond to the following: 'logfile', 'infofile', 'help', 'date', 'time', 'dance', 'poke', 'slap', 'ecky', 'boo', and 'reload {modulename}'.

[14:50] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: boo

[14:50] Reply: Nice try, but that didn't scare me

[14:52] *** vmlemon_ wonders how nmap works out uptime...

[14:53] < MS-> vmlemon_: You can make an estimate based on TCP/IP sequence numbers

[14:53] < MS-> not always, but sometimes

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[15:45] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

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[16:07] *** j_baker has joined #kamaelia

[16:07] < j_baker> Hello guys

[16:10] < orphans> hey j_baker

[16:11] < orphans> hows it going?

[16:11] < j_baker> Not too bad.

[16:11] < vmlemon_> Hi orphans and j_baker

[16:12] < orphans> hey vmlemon

[16:12] < orphans> _

[16:20] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[16:22] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[16:35] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[16:38] < Davbo> Afternoon all

[16:39] < j_baker> Hello Davbo.

[16:40] < vmlemon_> Hi Davbo

[16:41] *** j_baker needs to find a web host that supports python better

[16:41] < j_baker> Anybody know of any good hosts with decent python support?

[16:41] < Davbo> Not checked with mine

[16:41] < j_baker> (fcgi doesn't count either)

[16:42] < Davbo> I'm with Dreamhost

[16:42] < j_baker> Me too. :(

[16:42] < j_baker> You can get python to work, but it's a GIANT pain.

[16:42] < Davbo> Ah

[16:42] < j_baker> And you only have fcgi (the obsolete version, flup doesn't work), not wsgi or mod_python

[16:43] < Davbo> Hmm

[16:43] < Davbo> I thought Django was on the 1-click install thingy

[16:43] < Davbo> apparently not

[16:44] < j_baker> THAT would be so awesome.

[16:44] < j_baker> I'm thinking of going with linode, but they're considerably more expensive.

[16:44] < Davbo> Yeah i got my dreamhost when it was on offer it was £11 for a year

[16:44] < j_baker> For a YEAR?

[16:44] < j_baker> wow.

[16:45] < Davbo> UK bandwidth is just horrible prices

[16:45] < Davbo> Yeah

[16:45] < Davbo> not sure what the plan was but it was over -$100 with the coupon

[16:46] < Davbo> When it expires i'm gonna use my University web-space i think

[16:46] < j_baker> You guys get a lot?

[16:46] < Davbo> so long as there is nothing commercial they're fine with it

[16:46] < j_baker> I think we get like 20MB and it's pretty much just static HTML.

[16:46] < Davbo> it's on my drive which is 250mb soft-quota

[16:47] < Davbo> it goes upto 1GB but you get spam email saying to delete stuff :D

[16:47] < j_baker> That's pretty cool.

[16:47] < Davbo> I think ours is static HTML but I've can SSH and install what i need, or so i was told

[16:48] < Davbo> Oh it was supposed to be $119.40 and i got it for $22 :/

[16:48] < Davbo> that was a good voucher! :D

[16:49] < j_baker> Oh yeah? I got Frontpage extensions at my university! :P

[16:49] < j_baker> Wow. How did you pull that off?

[16:49] < Davbo> it was a promotion for UK customers i know that much

[16:49] < Davbo> they probably just trying to expand their business

[16:50] < j_baker> Dreamhost is a pretty awesome host if you just want to do PHP/MySQL.

[16:50] < Davbo> Bandwidth over here costs a lot more or so I've been told by my last host

[16:50] < j_baker> Wonder why that is?

[16:51] < Davbo> no idea, you tend to find a lot of UK hosts just have boxes out in Sweden where it's cheaper

[16:51] < j_baker> I've also heard the bandwidth situation in Australia is pretty bad too.

[16:52] < j_baker> But now that you mention it, I've run into a lot more hosts in European places other than England.

[16:52] < j_baker> France primarily.

[16:54] < Davbo> Just reading the fcgi + python page on the dreamhost wiki

[16:54] < Davbo> sounds like a farce to get it working

[16:54] < Davbo> (here: http://wiki.dreamhost.com/Python_FastCGI)

[16:55] < j_baker> Ya. It would be easier to just go with a VPS host, and set up Apache with mod_wsgi myself.

[16:55] < Davbo> Ah Flup

[16:55] < j_baker> And that's just for FastCGI... there's a separate page for Django.

[16:56] < Davbo> looks like Flup works okay

[16:57] < j_baker> I dunno. I've read a couple of places where people have been having trouble getting flup to work.

[16:57] < j_baker> In fact, it says in the flup FAQ to use fcgi.py.

[16:57] < Davbo> https://panel.dreamhost.com/?tree=home.sugg&category=Software%20Installations&search=mod_python

[16:58] < Davbo> vote for them to add mod_python

[16:58] < Davbo> :)

[16:59] < j_baker> I did. And mod_wsgi.

[17:00] < Davbo> We live in hope ;)

[17:00] < j_baker> lol... yeah.

[17:01] < j_baker> This is pretty interesting:

[17:01] < j_baker> http://hcoop.net/

[17:02] < Lawouach> back

[17:02] < Davbo> ooo, i've heard about this

[17:04] < Davbo> Hi Lawouach

[17:04] < j_baker> Hello Lawouach

[17:04] < Lawouach> < j_baker> Anybody know of any good hosts with decent python support? < -- webfaction

[17:05] < j_baker> I'll check them out.

[17:05] < j_baker> I've heard decent things about them.

[17:05] < Lawouach> I've been using them for the past two years

[17:05] < Lawouach> No problem

[17:06] < j_baker> Do they have mod_wsgi?

[17:06] < Lawouach> Well when they don't have something either you install it youself thanks to your ssh account or you ask them. Usually the former since they don't like installing too much stuff system wide.

[17:07] < Lawouach> But as long as your software is legit you can do whatever you want with and on your account

[17:07] < Lawouach> And their control panel is great.

[17:07] < j_baker> They let you install apache mods?

[17:08] < Davbo> "From static HTML, PHP and CGI to Rails, Django, Turbogears and Plone, these plans let you run any software you want. You can even install your own custom software in your home directory."

[17:08] < Davbo> I think you'll be okay j_baker lol

[17:09] < Lawouach> j_baker, yeap since you can install your own apache :)

[17:09] < j_baker> Now THAT is awesome for a shared plan.

[17:09] < j_baker> Plus it isn't as expensive as going with some of the others that I've seen.

[17:10] < Lawouach> I should now put a disclaimer: The main guy behind webfaction is Remi Delon, whom I've worked with on WebFaction for a few months a couple of years back.

[17:10] < Lawouach> He's also the creator of the CherryPy project :)

[17:10] < Lawouach> :D

[17:11] < Davbo> That's what your book is on right Lawouach?

[17:11] < Lawouach> yes

[17:11] < j_baker> I think I'm going to sign up. Are there any referral codes so you get a credit to your hosting account or anything like that Lawouach?

[17:11] < Davbo> interesting, you can refer Lawouach when you sign up j_baker hehe

[17:11] < Lawouach> Yeah but I haven't set it up yet so don't worry about it.

[17:12] *** MS- has joined #kamaelia

[17:13] < Davbo> Total Bandwidth Provided: 5360 GB ($0.1/GB over) Total Used So Far: 0.004 GB

[17:13] < Davbo> That's quite shameful of me, I should use it more often

[17:13] < Davbo> Evenin' MS-

[17:14] < MS-> evening

[17:15] < j_baker> Well, time for me to get to class. Later guys!

[17:16] *** j_baker has parted #kamaelia

[17:18] < Davbo> Apparently us students might be getting O'Reilly - Safari accounts

[17:19] < Davbo> (or so says one the few posts made to the mailing list that wasn't "Hello!!")

[17:20] < Davbo> back later chaps.

[17:53] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[17:59] < MS-> Ooh, that's nice

[17:59] < MS-> (just read comment about safari accounts)

[18:02] < Davbo> Just got an O'Reilly book from the library today "Programming Python"

[18:02] < Davbo> doubt i'll use it, just there as a guide really

[18:03] < MS-> I don't own that one

[18:03] < MS-> Nor have I ever considered buying it

[18:03] < MS-> A good one IMO is the pocket python reference

[18:03] < MS-> which won't be in the library

[18:03] < MS-> :)

[18:04] < MS-> PP is meant to be OK though :)

[18:04] < Davbo> this other one i have is good, but it's aimed at more scientific programming

[18:04] < Davbo> I find it interesting though, each to their own :)

[18:05] < Davbo> "Python Scripting for Computational Science"

[18:05] < MS-> ooh, what's that one like?

[18:05] < Davbo> Seems good from the introduction

[18:06] < MS-> What's the author/isbn?

[18:06] < Davbo> pokes at the big holes in MATLAB

[18:06] < Davbo> Hans Petter Langtangen

[18:07] < MS-> cool

[18:07] < MS-> This: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Python-Scripting-Computational-Science-Engineering/dp/3540739157/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208887642&sr=8-1

[18:07] < MS-> I presume

[18:08] < Davbo> Yeah that's it, ISBN i have here is: 3540435085

[18:09] < Davbo> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Python-Scripting-Computational-Science-Engineering/dp/3540435085/ref=sr_11_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1208887739&sr=11-1

[18:09] < Davbo> Wow: 1 used & new available from £174.11

[18:10] < MS-> Books can be pricey...

[18:11] < MS-> I prefer my link - 140 quid cheaper

[18:11] < Davbo> idd.

[18:11] < Davbo> I was just searching on the isbn on this one

[18:12] < Davbo> one of the best things about being a uni is access to the library

[18:13] < Davbo> My brother doing Politics has to read some really rare expensive books found in the "stacks" of the library

[18:14] < Davbo> It's funny, i've seen people asleep in the library on a book that's probably worth ~£200

[18:15] < Davbo> well "a person"*

[18:26] < MS-> Yep.

[18:26] < MS-> The nice thing about being based in Manchester is that I went to university there

[18:26] < MS-> which means I still have access to the university library

[18:32] < Davbo> Ah nice

[18:32] < Davbo> What's this talk about moving to google code MS- ?

[18:32] < Davbo> You getting a bit tired with sf?

[18:32] < MS-> Considering it.

[18:33] < MS-> Pondering.

[18:33] < MS-> in a contemplatory fashion

[18:33] < MS-> I suspect that our codebase (due to our branching policy) would be too large though

[18:34] < MS-> (Our branching policy being "this your namespace, knock yourself out")

[18:34] < MS-> :)

[18:34] < MS-> After all, if considering moving mailing lists it's worth considering lifting and shifting the lot

[18:35] < MS-> But I suspect at present we'll just move the lists

[18:35] < Davbo> Hmm

[18:35] < Davbo> It would be neat to have it all together

[18:56] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[18:57] < vmlemon_> Hi

[19:00] < Davbo> Hi vmlemon_

[19:00] < Davbo> Going to restart to Windows (so i can use MATLAB)

[19:00] < Davbo> brb

[19:04] *** Davbo has joined #kamaelia

[19:48] *** Chong- has joined #kamaelia

[19:48] < Chong-> evening, everyone.

[19:49] < Chong-> MS-: I just replied your e-mail.

[19:49] < MS-> ta

[19:49] *** MS- looks

[19:49] < Chong-> Could you please let me know after you add my ID to the developer list so that I can check in my codes?

[19:49] < Chong-> cool

[19:50] < MS-> will do

[19:50] *** MS- waits for mail to arrive

[19:50] < Chong-> thanks.:-)

[19:50] < Chong-> :-)

[19:53] < MS-> You did send it to the mailing list, ?

[19:57] < Chong-> yes.

[20:10] < MS-> ms@cerenity.org isn't a mailing list...

[20:10] < MS-> no matter

[20:17] < Chong-> Sorry. Do you suppose us to send reply to the mail list kamaelia-list@lists.sourceforge.net?

[20:21] < Davbo> Agh, forgot i unsubscribed from the list

[20:22] < Davbo> just re-subscribed

[20:26] < Chong-> I have not subscribed it yet. :p I'll do it now.

[20:27] < Davbo> Ah, I misread what you said before. Thought i'd missed something that was posted to the ML

[20:35] *** MS- is now concentrating on something else

[22:13] *** Uraeus has joined #kamaelia

[22:27] *** NcTrun has joined #kamaelia

[22:27] < NcTrun> hi all

[22:28] < Davbo> Good evenin'

[22:33] *** Davbo just did a whois on NcTrun

[22:33] < Davbo> Congratulations on being accepted :)

[22:34] < NcTrun> same, davbo :-)

[23:47] *** j_baker has joined #kamaelia

[23:57] < Chong-> gotta sleep. see you all.

[23:58] < Chong-> Good night.

[23:58] < Davbo> night Chong-

[23:58] < j_baker> night

[23:58] < Chong-> night Davbo

[23:58] < Davbo> You get that hosting j_baker?

[23:58] < Chong-> night j_baker

[23:58] < j_baker> Not yet. I will though.

[23:59] < j_baker> I'm kind of torn between WebFaction and VPSLink.

[23:59] < j_baker> It seems like I'd have more options with VPSLink, but WebFaction would probably have better support.