[00:04] < Davbo> http://news.opensuse.org/2008/04/18/announcing-opensuse-110-beta-1/

[00:05] < Davbo> Might have to try that

[00:05] < Davbo> Kinda wanna switch to KDE, mostly because of Amarok

[00:05] < Davbo> I have it on Gnome, but it's just not the same

[00:06] < Davbo> Always liked openSUSE too

[00:06] < vmlemon_> You could always use Amarok on GNOME

[00:06] *** vmlemon_ prefers KDE, that said

[00:06] < Davbo> < Davbo> I have it on Gnome, but it's just not the same

[00:07] < Davbo> :P

[00:07] < Davbo> that new SUSE installer looks amazing

[00:07] *** vmlemon_ looks

[00:08] < vmlemon_> Tried KDE 4 yet?

[00:30] < vmlemon_> o.O "Why is it when Microsoft reinvent the wheel it goes from four sides to three - one less bump but still totally impractical."

[00:36] < Davbo> Nah, you tried it KDE?

[00:38] < vmlemon_> It seems OK, although it's still a bit rough around the edges (it had weird bugs with being able to move the desktop wallpaper by holding the mouse button down for an extended period of time and moving a window, and it did strange things when KDE 3.5.x was on the same machine)

[00:39] < vmlemon_> I'm sure that they'll iron out most of the problems by the 4.1.x series (seeing as they've redone a lot of the infrastructure)

[03:08] < Chong-> Gotta sleep. cya

[03:08] *** Chong- has parted #kamaelia

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[12:26] < vmlemon_> Hi

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[14:35] < vmlemon_> Hah, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=140213485234&Category=211&_trksid=p3907.m29

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[16:57] < Davbo> Did you get that work done in the end orphans ?

[17:44] < orphans> Davbo: *sigh* kinda - I got alright videos by using recordmydesktop (good app - worked flawlessly :)) but now I can't get them to work in OO Impress

[17:44] < orphans> seems I need the JMF, which ubuntu sees as far too lowly to package up

[17:44] *** orphans grumbles about desktop linux not just working :)

[17:45] < Davbo> Ah :)

[17:46] < Davbo> Good luck with JMF :p

[17:46] < orphans> I'm 99% sure that when I export it to .ppt it won't work anyway

[17:46] < orphans> sometimes I long for a copy of MS Office :)

[17:46] < Davbo> never tried to use it and i have a sneaky suspicion i don't wanna

[17:47] < orphans> It's quite annoying how ubuntu ships OO by default, but then doesn't let you use half of it without hacking round some slightly sketchy java install

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[17:53] < Davbo> What part can't you use without the install orphans ?

[17:53] < orphans> can't insert videos

[17:53] < Davbo> I've probably already done the java install so wouldn't notice

[17:53] < Davbo> Ah i see

[17:54] < orphans> I think I'll probably just make the presentation then stick the videos in at uni

[17:54] < Davbo> yeah

[17:55] < orphans> what I'd give to have a couple of hours access to the PC before I have to do the presentation - would have saved me at least three days worth of hassle

[17:55] < Davbo> one of the presentations was done in OO and showed up with crazy kanjii symbols for the bulletpoints when i did it at uni

[17:55] < Davbo> of course they were using Powerpoint

[17:56] < Davbo> one of the many reasons i have dual-boot with Vista on this machine

[17:56] < orphans> really I'd love to do it in html or something, but it's specified that we have to do it in ppt

[17:56] < Davbo> (that and Team Fortress 2 :))

[17:57] < orphans> yeah, I dual-boot but I still don't have a copy of office to my name

[17:57] < Davbo> ah

[17:57] < Davbo> Aren't you in MSDN?

[17:57] < orphans> nah - isn't it just CS students who get in

[17:58] < Davbo> Oh sorry I thought you were CS

[17:58] < orphans> fraid not - the best I get is an athens account

[17:59] < Davbo> 'least you don't get the spam that comes with the MSDN account :/

[17:59] < Davbo> trying to sell books on .NET

[18:00] < orphans> yeah, sadly athens, whilst providing a number of interesting papers ("A time-and-motion study on lawn bowls"), doesn't come up with the goods regarding software which I could do with

[18:00] < orphans> or spam, thankfully

[18:02] < orphans> eesh, looks like JMF would have been sod all use anyway - from Wikipedia: "Its all-Java version, for example, cannot play MPEG-2, MPEG-4, Windows Media, RealMedia, most QuickTime movies, Flash content newer than Flash 2, and needs a plug-in to play the ubiquitous MP3 format."

[18:02] < orphans> looks like it's powerpoint all the way for me :)

[18:02] *** Davbo sighs, typical Sun product

[18:04] < orphans> makes me remember why I don't like open office :)

[18:04] < Davbo> indeed.

[18:05] < orphans> mm, think I'm going to get myself some food now - in a bit Davbo

[18:05] < Davbo> Cya later

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[19:42] < Davbo> kamaeliabot: dance

[19:42] Reply: does the macarena

[19:43] < Davbo> hurrah!

[19:49] *** MS- has joined #kamaelia

[19:49] < MS-> greetings

[19:49] < Davbo> and salutations

[19:49] < Davbo> (hi)

[19:50] < Davbo> Good weekend MS- ?

[19:51] < MS-> So far so good, yes :)

[19:51] < MS-> Yourself ?

[19:52] < Davbo> Yeah, lots of work still to do. As usual

[19:52] < Davbo> Just sent a persuasive email to my uni colleagues telling them to get some work done

[19:54] < MS-> "we're all doomed if you do nothing. Doomed. DOOMED! DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!!"

[19:54] < MS-> ?

[19:54] < MS-> :)

[19:55] < Davbo> pretty much :P

[19:56] < MS-> :)

[19:58] < Davbo> Also discovered sleep in java (which i need to use in this piece of work)

[19:58] < Davbo> let me put it this way:

[19:58] < Davbo> sleep(1); in pascal

[19:58] < Davbo> is try { Thread.sleep(Long.MAX_VALUE);} catch (Exception e) {}

[19:58] < Davbo> well, not the max_value but 100ms

[20:04] < Davbo> < /rant>

[20:04] < MS-> That's nice

[20:05] < Lawouach> hi folks

[20:06] *** Davbo wonders if kamaeliabot is HTML proof

[20:06] < Davbo> hi Lawouach

[20:06] < Davbo> < br>

[20:07] < MS-> Hi Lawouach

[20:07] < MS-> Davbo: < script> flooble wooble > < /script>

[20:08] < MS-> gets pass through quoted

[20:08] < Davbo> Ah :)

[20:08] < Davbo> I see *looking at source*

[20:09] < Lawouach> alright, I haven't been able to put as much work as I wanted this weekend into XMPP but I did quite cool stuff

[20:09] < Lawouach> http://www.defuze.org/archives/10-AtomPub-and-XMPP.html

[20:10] < Lawouach> Doesn't show any code but sets the background for what I'll put up hopefully soon

[20:10] *** MS- looks

[20:11] < Lawouach> nothing major there yet

[20:12] < Lawouach> I've actually a lot of code running well

[20:12] < Lawouach> But also in a mess because I'm prototyping a lot

[20:12] < Lawouach> so I need to clean up :D

[20:17] *** MS- nods

[20:17] < MS-> :)

[20:18] < Lawouach> I've been impressed how the Axon's design make things so flexible

[20:18] < Lawouach> It's excellent to work with it.

[20:20] < MS-> I'm pleased to hear that :-)

[20:28] < Davbo> I watched your LugRadio presentation earlier today MS-, was interesting

[20:28] < Davbo> I couldn't tell what people were laughing at when you loaded up the visualiser though

[20:32] < Davbo> It was a good talk though, far better public speaker than I

[20:34] < MS-> thanks :)

[20:34] < MS-> I didn't realise the video was up yet :)

[20:35] *** MS- finds links

[20:35] < Davbo> My brother linked it to me, he was watching Chris DiBona's I think

[20:35] < Davbo> i'll get it, sec

[20:36] < MS-> I've got the link :)

[20:37] < Davbo> ah

[20:37] < MS-> Probably tried to cover too much

[20:37] < MS-> But I do like the idea that you can go from basics to a P2P swarming radio system (sans error handling) in 50 odd minutes

[20:37] < Davbo> Well, only thing I thought was you could have done the MiniAxon a bit earlier

[20:37] < Davbo> was really good though

[20:38] < MS-> cool

[20:38] < Davbo> seemed to go down well too, didn't realise how many people were there until the applause at the end

[20:38] < MS-> Yeah, it was a pretty packed room

[20:39] < MS-> Well, not packed,

[20:39] < MS-> but full

[20:39] < Davbo> I'm considering going this year, not sure though. Need to check see if I know anyone at that uni

[20:39] Reply: Hm?

[20:39] < MS-> And a biggish room

[20:39] < Davbo> which one is it?

[20:39] < MS-> It's just north of birmingham

[20:40] < MS-> Wolverhampton specifically

[20:40] < Davbo> Ah yeah.

[20:41] < Davbo> not far for me really

[20:41] < Davbo> Hour on the train probably

[20:41] < MS-> Ah, it's probably worth mentioning that the presentation tool I used was the whiteboard

[20:41] < Davbo> Yeah you mentioned it :)

[20:43] < Davbo> I need to sort out my Whiteboard, it works but not very responsive for some reason

[20:43] < MS-> i see

[20:44] < Davbo> Could it be something to do with GNOME?

[20:44] < MS-> Shouldn't be

[20:45] < Davbo> Maybe it's all this Compiz rubbish

[20:45] < MS-> Ahh, quite possibly

[20:46] < Davbo> Will have a look later, considering moving to openSUSE after looking at the beta for 11 actually

[20:46] < MS-> I saw your comments on it in the log

[20:47] < Davbo> Maybe try "apt-get kubuntu-desktop" first

[20:47] < Davbo> see how much KDE has changed since i last used it

[20:48] < MS-> "I couldn't tell what people were laughing at when you loaded up the visualiser though"

[20:48] < MS-> Oh, I think there's a debugging statement that gets displayed onscreen that was amusing

[20:48] < MS-> :-)

[20:48] < Davbo> ah :D

[20:49] < Davbo> Anyway i'm procrastinating from doing this work

[20:49] < Davbo> back "when it's done"

[20:49] < MS-> :)

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[21:27] < Chong-> Evening, everyone.

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[21:49] < vmlemon__> Hi

[21:50] < Chong-> evening, vmlemon__.

[22:02] < MS-> Davbo: Thanks for pointing that out. Decided to watch it since they say you should watch your own presentations if you can to find problems

[22:03] < MS-> I find it quite cringeworthy, but in retrospect it seems OK. Probably the biggest problems are probably speaking too fast, and repetition/hesitation/um/ers

[22:03] < MS-> ( link: http://2007.video.lugradio.org/main/ )

[22:04] < MS-> It's a pity that they only put them up in ogg theora/vorbis, since it'd be nice to put on google video or similar.

[22:05] < Davbo> That would make far more sense

[22:05] < MS-> indeed. I can understand the statement it makes

[22:05] < Davbo> I think they love freedom so much they get a kick whenever they use ogg :P

[22:05] < MS-> but it limits the distance that the information can travel

[22:05] < Davbo> You were better/as good as most of my lecturers so don't worry MS-

[22:06] < MS-> cool. It's always nice to try to improve though

[22:06] < vmlemon__> You could transcode them

[22:06] < Davbo> Demo's like that where you are practically doing things and explaining are the worst, especially with technology

[22:06] < MS-> vmlemon__: Indeed - I might try doing so with a low loss level and then uploading, so that when they're re-encoded it's the minimal loss

[22:07] < MS-> Davbo: Indeed - but for that I can point at slides and redo as screencasts perhaps

[22:07] < MS-> Different media give you different benefits

[22:08] < MS-> I'm surprised the talk hangs together though - and whilst I can see why you suggest moving miniaxon earlier

[22:08] < MS-> I think its a good place to put it

[22:08] < MS-> (in other talks before that one I'd always talked about the core *alot* sooner)

[22:08] < MS-> (and it generally left the view "so what's it good for")

[22:09] < vmlemon__> I suppose you could make WAVs or AIFFs out of them, and then convert them to other formats

[22:09] < MS-> vmlemon__: yep

[22:10] < Davbo> I thought it would be better to look at a real component and compare that to MiniAxon's components rather than the other way around. Doesn't make much difference anyway

[22:10] < MS-> Davbo: What do you mean?

[22:13] < Davbo> when you go through miniaxon in that talk you compare the consumer producer to the previous component you built

[22:13] < Davbo> I thought it would work better the other way round

[22:14] *** MS- must be a moron tonight since he still doesn't understand

[22:14] < MS-> I'll ask again tomorrow :)

[22:15] < Davbo> okay - i'm not sure what i mean either anyway ;)

[22:15] < MS-> heh

[22:15] < Davbo> just finished my work, finally

[22:15] < MS-> :)

[22:15] < Davbo> just need to add some conditional checks

[22:16] < MS-> I think I know what you mean thinking about it

[22:16] < MS-> you're suggesting "talk with the basic/abstract example"

[22:16] < MS-> then later say "this consolereader/consoleechoer" directly reflect the producer/consumer example

[22:16] < MS-> rather than the other way round

[22:16] < Davbo> yup

[22:17] < MS-> Which I agree is the traditional academic way of doing things

[22:17] < MS-> However the problem generally is people switch off that sort of thing real fast

[22:17] < Davbo> Yeah, true

[22:17] < MS-> since its theoretical rather than "ooh, video"

[22:17] < MS-> :)

[22:18] < Davbo> "Glorious 15fps video!" ;)

[22:18] < MS-> heh

[22:19] < MS-> It's really a conceptual issue - which do you do:

[22:19] < MS-> abstract ---> concrete

[22:19] < MS-> concrete --> abstract

[22:19] < vmlemon__> Shufflevision? ;)

[22:19] < MS-> perhaps more philosphical

[22:19] < MS-> heh

[22:21] < Davbo> personally i'm more interested in the abstract / philosophical parts anyway

[22:22] < vmlemon__> Davbo: in "high quality"/"almost as good as Betamax"?

[22:22] < MS-> Davbo: yep - that's the problem with speaking to a general audience - you can't please everyone

[22:23] < MS-> Also, not everyone in LRL's audience would be a programmer, so front loading with less theoretical stuff seems appropriate

[22:23] < MS-> But it's not easy :)

[22:24] < Davbo> vmlemon__? whaa - how could anything even come close to Betamax :P

[22:24] < Davbo> MS-, yeah lots of listeners are "community" people

[22:25] < MS-> The guidance I got was pretty much "they want something practical" really, so that kinda focussed things

[23:57] < Davbo> night all