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[00:43] < MS-> Finally finished writing the document I referred to earlier...

[00:44] < Davbo> Ouch

[00:44] < MS-> Very

[00:44] < Davbo> what was it? or would you have to kill me if you told me?

[00:44] < MS-> the latter :)

[00:44] < Davbo> in which case, i'm not fussed.

[00:44] < MS-> :)

[00:44] < Davbo> Ah :)

[00:45] < Davbo> you work at GCHQ part-time?

[00:45] < Davbo> :P

[00:45] < MS-> heh

[00:45] < MS-> that'd be funny

[00:53] < Davbo> I'm sure the BBC has something similar to GCHQ

[00:53] < Davbo> monitoring calls to channel 4 or something

[00:54] < Davbo> What's your Job title MS-?

[00:56] *** Davbo tin-foil conspiracy theorist hat comes off

[00:56] < Davbo> I've been watching too much Lost

[01:04] < MS-> My job title? Senior Research Engineer

[01:04] < MS-> That or "code monkey" ;)

[01:05] < MS-> whipping boy perhaps

[01:05] < MS-> :-D

[01:05] < Davbo> lol :)

[01:06] < Davbo> Jonathan Coulton - Code Monkey, good song

[01:07] < MS-> heh

[01:07] < MS-> Has Lost found a plot yet btw?

[01:07] < Davbo> Nope

[01:08] < Davbo> and they broke my 2 rules for a TV show

[01:08] < MS-> Watched a few eps of this season to see if it'd improved and it still looked like they hadn't found a plot yet

[01:09] < Davbo> recent episodes have been good though

[01:09] < Davbo> as far as lost episodes go

[01:09] < Davbo> flash-forwards are crazy

[01:09] < MS-> That's what made me think it might be worth another look

[01:10] < MS-> but I was disappointed

[01:10] < MS-> I think that's almost why I like Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles

[01:10] < MS-> I went into that expecting that to be terrible

[01:11] < Davbo> Hmm any good?

[01:11] < MS-> and then they went and made it a) a serial b) good c) have a plot d) a plot that seemed well thought out e) an understanding of technology f) good actors g) good writing

[01:11] < MS-> kinda caught me out

[01:11] < MS-> :)

[01:11] < Davbo> might have to take a look!

[01:11] < Davbo> What you think to BSG?

[01:11] < MS-> I don't want to say anything about the new series that's just started

[01:12] < MS-> because Matt may read the logs

[01:12] < MS-> and he's not got sky

[01:12] < MS-> but I will say that it is very very good

[01:12] < MS-> I went into that thinking that'd be terrible too

[01:12] < Davbo> Ah so we can't discuss it then hehe

[01:12] < MS-> I remember seeing the original BSG first time round

[01:13] < MS-> and so when the new one started up seeing a female cylon and female starbuck?

[01:13] < MS-> There was a commemortive magazine for the mini-series so I bought it as a joke for my brother

[01:13] < MS-> turns out the joke was on me :)

[01:13] < MS-> I like the fact that they don't seem to take the easy route with their plotlines

[01:14] < MS-> The new caprica rescue at the beginning of season 2(3?) was extremely cool too

[01:14] < Davbo> oh that was awesome

[01:14] < MS-> I like SF, you can probably tell :)

[01:14] < MS-> OK, I really ought to get sleep - I'm off

[01:14] < MS-> cya :-)

[01:15] < Davbo> Night MS-

[01:15] < MS-> night

[01:15] *** MS- is now known as ms-away

[06:55] *** Lawouach_ has joined #kamaelia

[06:55] < Lawouach_> morning all

[07:28] *** maveriick has joined #kamaelia

[07:29] < ms-away> morning

[08:00] *** mhrd has joined #kamaelia

[08:00] *** Chong- has joined #kamaelia

[08:01] < Chong-> Good morning, everyone.

[08:01] < Lawouach_> hi Chong

[08:03] < mhrd> moning

[08:06] < Lawouach_> hey mhrd

[08:08] *** mhrd has joined #kamaelia

[08:12] < Chong-> Hi, Lawouach_, mhrd

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[09:30] *** Chong- is now known as Chong-away

[09:51] < vmlemon> Hi

[09:53] < orphans> vmlemon, hey

[09:54] *** vmlemon wonders who the hell managed to set the fire alarm system off here, assuming it wasn't a test

[09:54] < orphans> i say toaster

[09:54] < orphans> it's normally a toaster

[09:55] < vmlemon> Hrm, I don't know where I can find a toaster in that particular college building

[09:55] < vmlemon> I don't think they even do cookery there

[09:55] < vmlemon> (it's over the road where that happens)

[09:55] < orphans> ahh :)

[09:56] < orphans> not at home

[09:56] < vmlemon> Yeah

[09:56] < vmlemon> Unless someone in the staffrooms has managed to blow something up

[09:56] < vmlemon> Either that or the folks who do mechanics, here ;)

[09:57] < vmlemon> (http://www.leedsmet.ac.uk/harrogate/, if you're wondering where I am at the moment)

[09:58] < orphans> hum, nothing obviously explosive from the pictures...

[09:59] < vmlemon> Hah, unless someone has posted pics somewhere else of something burning here...

[10:00] < vmlemon> Although it's the first time since I started the course that the fire alarm has gone off

[10:02] < orphans> how long you been there?

[10:03] < vmlemon> Since September last year

[10:03] < vmlemon> although the course finishes in June/July

[10:03] < orphans> pretty good hit rate that - I've had at least two in the last couple of months

[10:03] < vmlemon> I guess it's probably down to luck :)

[10:07] < vmlemon> And a lack of toasters, presumably

[10:07] < orphans> yeah

[10:08] < orphans> perhaps my favourite thing at uni is that in this massive lab with all sorts of crazy looking nanotech machines theres a microwave sitting in the corner

[10:08] < orphans> I'm never sure whether it's vital for some experiment or just there to heat up a pot noodle

[10:09] < vmlemon> Or maybe even both...

[10:09] < vmlemon> Glow in the dark Pot Noodle, anyone? Noodle flavoured bacteria?

[10:10] < vmlemon> ;)

[10:10] < orphans> I'd definitely be slightly scared to use it

[10:13] < vmlemon> o.O "I can take a Gobuntu CD, put it in a server

[10:13] < vmlemon> (with supported hardware) and have no concerns about my ideals being

[10:13] < vmlemon> infringed upon."

[10:22] < vmlemon> Hah,

[10:22] < vmlemon> ""I'd go with that. I think ISO/IEC 26300 (ODF 1.0) can be compared to a neat house built on good foundations which is not finished; 29500 (OOXML) is a baroque cliffside castle replete with toppling towers, secret passages and ghosts: it is all too finished."

[10:31] < Lawouach> back

[11:07] *** Chong-away is now known as Chong-

[11:46] *** bcarlyon|nub has joined #kamaelia

[11:58] *** Lawouach_ has joined #kamaelia

[11:58] < Lawouach_> ahem.

[12:16] *** Chong- Lawouach_ has something to say :-)

[12:23] *** MS- has joined #kamaelia

[12:23] < MS-> aftenoon

[12:25] < Lawouach_> heya MS-

[12:25] < Lawouach_> I've been progressing quite well on my XMPP lib

[12:25] < Lawouach_> I have covered quite a bunch of pubsub

[12:26] < MS-> Excellent :-)

[12:26] < Lawouach_> I'm planning on interfacing a XMPP client tunning with Kamaelia with an HTTP server running with CherryPy allowing for clients to view items published to a given pubsub node

[12:26] < Lawouach_> Should be fun :)

[12:26] < Lawouach_> Hopefully available this weekend

[12:26] < MS-> That sounds very interesting indeed :-)

[12:26] < Lawouach_> :)

[12:27] < Lawouach_> Also, imagin that XMPP library in the context of game

[12:27] < Lawouach_> it could be use to interact in many ways with the game

[12:27] < MS-> indeed

[12:27] < Lawouach_> either on a pure IM level

[12:27] < MS-> or on a state change level

[12:27] < Lawouach_> or a command sender :)

[12:27] < Lawouach_> yeap

[12:27] < Lawouach_> could be fun :)

[12:27] < MS-> Could indeed

[12:28] < MS-> Maybe ought to think of what we can do with 132.185.142.2 - which is a BBC owned server which isn't really doing anything these days

[12:29] < MS-> Probably can't give you access to the server (I'd probably get shot or something like that)

[12:29] < MS-> But could probably run code from an SVN checkout on it

[12:29] < Lawouach_> Well we wouldn't want that to happen, would we?

[12:29] < Lawouach_> :)

[12:29] < MS-> And do something that way

[12:29] < Lawouach_> for now the code is XMPP client targeted

[12:29] *** MS- nods

[12:30] < Lawouach_> but writing a server based on the code could be doable

[12:30] < Lawouach_> wouldn't compete with ejabberd or openfire

[12:30] < MS-> indeed.

[12:30] < Lawouach_> but would work well enough

[12:30] < MS-> But it doesn't really have to compete with those really, since it's just different sort of domain

[12:30] < Lawouach_> I also considered a XMPP-IRC bridge component :)

[12:30] < Lawouach_> oh yes

[12:30] < MS-> That would be useful (and fun :) )

[12:31] < Lawouach_> it's just a proof of concept for now. A server that is

[12:31] < Lawouach_> But I don't doubt Kamaelia to cope with the load :)

[12:31] < MS-> I suppose once you have XMPP clients and IRC components, building a bridge would be relatively simple - the interesting part would be in the mapping of ids and behaviours

[12:31] < MS-> :-)

[12:31] < Lawouach_> yeap

[12:32] < Lawouach_> That'd be the "tricky" part

[12:32] < MS-> Largely because its decision making

[12:32] < MS-> :)

[12:32] < Lawouach_> Yes

[12:32] < orphans> afternoon MS-, Lawouach

[12:32] < MS-> orphans: afternoon

[12:33] *** MS- wonders what would happen if you linked a collection of orphan's proposed music players together using that, or if that's just being a little silly.. :)

[12:33] < Lawouach_> That is not

[12:33] < Lawouach_> That's one interes of mine. Not just orphans proposal

[12:34] < Lawouach_> But the mmporg one too

[12:34] < MS-> :)

[12:34] < Lawouach_> anything that needs to send data on a near-realtime really

[12:34] < orphans> what would happen? - I have a very hazy idea of what XMPP entails

[12:34] < orphans> spose I should really rtfm :)

[12:35] < Lawouach_> no no

[12:35] < Lawouach_> XMPP is mostly known as a IM protocol

[12:35] < MS-> orphans: think IRC for software

[12:35] < MS-> not quite that

[12:35] < Lawouach_> but it has extensions like PubSub

[12:35] < MS-> but not too far off

[12:35] < orphans> Lawouach, yeah, that was my hazy idea

[12:35] < Lawouach_> PubSub allows for data to be published and then subscribed to

[12:35] < orphans> ahh, I get it

[12:36] < Lawouach_> So one could subscribe to a node that represents a playlist of songs, beats, or whatever

[12:36] < orphans> I think - so it's a nice easy (if you're not Lawouach trying to implement it) to do stuff with loads of users

[12:36] < Lawouach_> and would be updated everytime one item is published or removed from that node

[12:36] < orphans> sounds cool :)

[12:37] < Lawouach_> it certainly is

[12:37] < Lawouach_> considering it all happens in near realtime and you can do funky stuff

[12:37] < MS-> BTW, had a meeting here with someone who's heading up a new (effectively) rapid prototyping/application dev group, and they sound seriously interested in Kamaelia.

[12:37] < MS-> Where that'll lead, I don't know, but it's promising :)

[12:38] < Lawouach_> as MS- said, it can be used to automate actions based on what happens to a node or an item. You could then chain components, each subscribed to aparticular node waiting for event.

[12:38] < Lawouach_> MS-: sweet

[12:39] < MS-> indeed :)

[12:39] < orphans> Lawouach, sorry, I think I'm being a bit slow on this - didn't really understand that last bit :)

[12:40] < MS-> Imagine if you can publish the state of your bubblegum sequencer somewhere

[12:40] < orphans> yup

[12:40] < MS-> so you can have 4 networked bubblegums

[12:40] < orphans> yup

[12:40] < MS-> they could also wait on each other based on the shared state

[12:40] < MS-> rather than in/outboxes

[12:41] < MS-> It's a higher level of looking at concurrency in some respects

[12:41] < MS-> and lower from others

[12:41] < orphans> ok, I think I understand

[12:41] < Lawouach_> yeap you cna nicely distribute not only the load but the actual function

[12:41] < MS-> (depending on whether I've intepretted Lawouach_'s comment appropriately)

[12:41] < Lawouach_> You have

[12:41] < MS-> cool

[12:42] < Lawouach_> anyway all good stuff :)

[12:42] < MS-> indeed :)

[12:55] *** maveriick has parted #kamaelia

[12:58] < MS-> OK, I've gotta go for a while, back in a while

[12:58] < MS-> cya

[12:58] *** MS- has parted #kamaelia

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[14:57] *** MS- has joined #kamaelia

[14:58] < Chong-> Afternoon, MS-

[14:58] < MS-> heya

[14:58] < Chong-> Now the weather becomes much better:-)

[14:58] < MS-> Indeed - definitely good weather

[14:59] < Chong-> ;)

[16:25] < Lawouach> back

[16:30] < MS-> Lawouach: heya

[16:31] < Lawouach> hey there

[16:33] < Davbo> How do you make programming in ASM more annoying - make it Java Byte-code.

[16:35] < Davbo> invokevirtual java/io/PrintStream/println(Ljava/lang/String;)

[16:35] < Davbo> Also: Hi Lawouach

[16:35] < MS-> try python bytecode instead :)

[16:36] < Davbo> Someone has put in a lot of work so i don't need to write in Java's bytecode so i would rather not

[16:36] < MS-> :)

[16:37] < Davbo> That being said, you shouldn't use the wheel until you know how it works

[16:37] < Davbo> (in some cases)

[16:39] < MS-> OK, odd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1S2tsxVHg

[16:42] < Davbo> odd is an understatement

[16:42] < mhrd> you not seen that before?!

[16:44] < MS-> mhrd: Only just looked at the link cy posted the other day

[16:45] < mhrd> ah :)

[16:45] < mhrd> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1S2tsxVHg ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boZyHDJ5qCs

[16:45] < mhrd> he's the T in IT

[16:46] < Davbo> that takes over EDS cat herding advert for weird IT ad's

[16:46] < Davbo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxwTC13f1PE

[16:48] < mhrd> heh :)

[16:51] < Davbo> Not sure if Mr. T endorsements really sell IT products though

[16:52] < Davbo> ;)

[16:53] *** Davbo goes back to programming for I2C ports

[16:53] < MS-> mhrd: No, I hadn't seen it before

[16:57] < MS-> "Davbo: Not sure if Mr. T endorsements really sell IT products though "

[16:57] *** MS- begins to question his opinion of Davbo's GSOC app...

[16:57] < MS-> :-)

[16:58] < mhrd> quit your jibber jabber fool!! ;-)

[17:00] < Davbo> Hey if it was Howling mad Murdock i'd be out buying my mid-range storage from Hitachi right now :P

[17:00] < MS-> Howling Mad Murdock has been hired by Ubuntu

[17:03] < Davbo> He piloting Mark Shuttleworth into space again?

[17:10] < Davbo> Minor adjustments to his chopper for space flight ;)

[17:35] < Davbo> back later

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[18:02] *** Uraeus_ has joined #kamaelia

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[19:21] *** MS- wanders off for a bit

[19:22] *** MS- is now known as ms-away

[19:31] *** bcarlyon|nub is now known as bcarlyon|laptop

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[19:48] < j_baker> Sigh... I really need to be more careful which buttons I push in the browser when I'm using mibbit.

[20:02] < j_baker> Dumb american question time: I'm assuming European/UK keyboards don't have $ on them, do they?

[20:03] < ms-away> They do

[20:03] *** ms-away is now known as ms-

[20:03] < ms-> The top row of a UK keyoard:

[20:03] < ms-> !"£$%^&*()

[20:03] < ms-> (above 1..0)

[20:03] *** ms- is now known as MS-

[20:03] < j_baker> I see. I always wondered how how people with european keyboards programmed perl/PHP.

[20:04] < MS-> *mac* keyboards though are a real pain

[20:04] < MS-> since # is hidden

[20:04] < j_baker> lol

[20:04] < j_baker> I've heard that.

[20:04] < MS-> (you have to press a random key combo)

[20:04] < MS-> which I can't remember

[20:05] < j_baker> You'd figure they would be more accommodating to programmers.

[20:05] < MS-> Well there's also the fact that a lot of world news reporting works with $ - which is used for lots of different sorts of dollars

[20:05] < MS-> Yeah, you would've thought that they'd think of that

[20:06] < j_baker> Oh well. I suppose we can all be happy we're not trying to program on Japanese keyboards. :P

[20:06] < MS-> I'm sure they're fine if you're japanese :)

[20:08] < j_baker> Yeah, but I would imagine that there aren't that many programming languages that work on non-latin alphabets.

[20:08] < j_baker> (I could be totally wrong though)

[20:09] < MS-> I haven't gone looking myself. That said, I did try writing a parser a while back that was keyword-free, but could parse python-like languages

[20:09] < MS-> or ruby-like

[20:09] < Chong-> I suppose Japanese keyboards are also alphabets-based.

[20:10] < MS-> Turns out you can do it quite easily if you ensure that the *use* requires an end token for a block

[20:10] < MS-> The grammar I defined would define something like

[20:10] < MS-> foo ... :

[20:10] < MS-> a

[20:10] < MS-> B

[20:10] < MS-> endfoo

[20:11] < MS-> as a function call to foo, with arguments ... and a codeblock (which contained A,b) and an endtag of endfoo

[20:11] < MS-> It was an exercise I did to see if it would be possible to make lisp pretty

[20:11] < MS-> (ie no brackets)

[20:12] < MS-> Gave a lightning talk about it at europython a few years back:

[20:12] < MS-> http://www.slideshare.net/kamaelian/swp-a-generic-language-parser

[20:12] < j_baker> If you did that, I may actually try to learn Lisp.

[20:12] < MS-> Did mean it could parse all sorts of things

[20:12] < MS-> heh

[20:12] < j_baker> All those parenthesis throw me off.

[20:12] < MS-> Yeah, I hate lisp due to brackets

[20:12] < MS-> There was a proposal to write a kamaelia based project in lisp

[20:13] < MS-> twas really quite a scary thought

[20:13] < Chong-> it think it works if it's one to one mapping.

[20:14] < MS-> I particularly like slide 8 on in the above slideshare

[20:14] *** Chong- looking at slide 8

[20:15] < j_baker> Heh... so is 9 the result?

[20:15] < MS-> yep :)

[20:15] < MS-> It was an exercise in an entirely test driven parser

[20:16] < MS-> That parser may well creep into kamaelia as a component one day

[20:16] < MS-> Since it kinda makes writing a parser irrelevant :)

[20:16] < j_baker> That's not a bad idea.

[20:17] < Chong-> and could be very useful:-)

[20:18] < j_baker> Did it recognize just keywords or would it also do symbols as well?

[20:19] < MS-> no, you're missing what it does - it doesn't have any keywords :)

[20:20] < MS-> http://cerenity.org/SWP/progs/ has the test cases which it'll happily parse

[20:20] < MS-> So slide 8 for example is this: http://cerenity.org/SWP/progs/expr_40.p

[20:21] < MS-> I don't know if that answers your question

[20:21] < MS-> Do you mean like symbols from the perspective of either ruby/perl

[20:21] < MS-> or from the perspective of variables/functions ?

[20:21] < MS-> or as in !&%&^*^"!

[20:21] < MS-> :)

[20:21] < j_baker> If I'm understanding it correctly, it basically just establishes a set of rules for interpreting the text?

[20:22] < MS-> Essentially yes.

[20:22] < MS-> If you look at this example :

[20:22] < MS-> http://cerenity.org/SWP/progs/expr_33.p

[20:23] < j_baker> Well, I was wondering basically if it would be able to handle XML or HTML or other things because of their heavy use of non-alphanumeric characters.

[20:23] < MS-> It would treat shape, pen, repeat, rotate as function calls

[20:23] < MS-> ahh I see

[20:23] < MS-> no

[20:23] < MS-> not that sort of thing

[20:23] < MS-> It relies on

[20:24] < MS-> stuff : < --- colon is important

[20:24] < MS-> < indent> otherstuff

[20:24] < MS-> < indent> otherstuff

[20:24] < MS-> < indent> otherstuff

[20:24] < MS-> endstuff < -- token is irrelevant, but must match indent of "stuff"

[20:24] < j_baker> I see.

[20:24] < j_baker> That could prove pretty useful for defining scripting languages.

[20:26] < Chong-> or translation between different programming languages

[20:26] < j_baker> Indeed. Imagine if you could use Ruby without having to mess with Rails...

[20:26] < MS-> The idea was actually whether you could have a language that could scale

[20:26] < MS-> from very simplistic stuff

[20:27] < j_baker> Although I would imagine that would require some heavy modification to the parser.

[20:27] < MS-> like the logo-like example

[20:27] < MS-> http://cerenity.org/SWP/progs/expr_33.p

[20:27] < MS-> through to incorporating things like SQL by implication

[20:27] < MS-> *and* also allow translation of the language

[20:29] < MS-> At least on a simple level

[20:29] < MS-> by doing

[20:30] < MS-> ша = if

[20:30] < MS-> ерут = then

[20:30] < MS-> кузуфе = repeat

[20:30] < MS-> etc

[20:30] < MS-> (the LHS above is bogus)

[20:31] < j_baker> I see. That would make one hell of a kamaelia component.

[20:32] < Davbo> Interesting MS-, had a look at it the other week browsing all the slide shows up there

[20:32] < Davbo> Your greylisting slideshow made me laugh :)

[20:33] < MS-> heh, cool

[20:33] < j_baker> Well, I will see you guys later. Got to work on a project.

[20:33] *** j_baker has parted #kamaelia

[20:33] < Davbo> Generic parsing is always interesting

[20:34] < MS-> Indeed. I haven't really *done* anything with that code, but then it was only written for fun :)

[20:35] < Davbo> It would be a big project if you wanted anything serious from it, i'd have thought

[20:35] < MS-> Well, depends really. Since it treats everything as a function

[20:35] < MS-> there should be a 1:1 correspondance between the parse tree

[20:35] < MS-> and S-expressions

[20:36] < Davbo> hmm

[20:36] < MS-> which means the code made this way could be transformed into scheme or lisp

[20:36] < MS-> which then can be compiled by a standard lisp/scheme compiler

[20:36] < Davbo> Yeah

[20:37] < Chong-> lisp/scheme makes it easier to handle these logic relationships.

[20:38] < MS-> Personally, it struck me as having huge potential for really driving people nuts (a tower of babel problem)

[20:38] < MS-> which is part of why I never took that step. Also having other things I felt like doing

[20:39] < MS-> But it could be useful for adding scripting into kamaelia systems so I keep toying with componentising it

[20:39] < Davbo> Heh

[20:39] < Chong-> :-)

[20:42] < Davbo> is Logo a lisp-style functional langauge?

[20:42] < Chong-> I think it is very suitable for kamaelia's component.

[20:43] < MS-> Davbo: Nope

[20:43] < MS-> But that that's not really a problem

[20:43] < MS-> After all, control structures in this syntax get defined as functions

[20:43] < MS-> Which can be handled easily

[20:44] < MS-> It's clearer if you think of it in terms of an interpreter rather than compiler

[20:44] *** Davbo looks up Logo

[20:45] < Chong-> MS-: I think logo is a dialect of lisp :-)

[20:45] < MS-> Chong-: No, not at all

[20:45] < MS-> Heritage is completely different

[20:46] < MS-> syntax is completely different too

[20:47] < Davbo> interesting

[20:47] < Chong-> MS-: maybe you are right.

[20:47] < MS-> Logo was used as a teaching language when I was in primary school

[20:48] < Davbo> indeed, looks like it was Smalltalk's primary influence

[20:49] < MS-> Smalltalk was also heavily influenced by Simula 67

[20:49] < Chong-> it seems a very old language:-)

[20:49] < MS-> (since Simula 67 was the first OO language)

[20:50] < Chong-> I remember there are also several versions of Smalltalk.

[20:51] < MS-> Smalltalk is old, so there would be

[20:52] < Chong-> I see. not familiar with these old languages. But they are still popular even now.

[20:52] < MS-> I try to collect old languages

[20:53] < MS-> Occam and forth are both interesting for example, for differing reasons

[20:53] < Chong-> cool

[20:54] < Davbo> Pascal in your collection MS-?

[20:54] < Chong-> The more languages you know, the more you know language.

[20:57] < MS-> Davbo: yep

[20:57] < Davbo> The more you mix up your syntax*

[20:57] < Davbo> :P

[20:58] < MS-> That can be the case - also your code can become non-idiomatic for the language

[20:58] < Chong-> true. every coin has two sides.

[21:02] < MS-> Not actually ever written anything in fortran, but have coded using cobol

[21:02] < MS-> Wouldn't want to ever again mind

[21:02] < Davbo> My university has 4 Python books, and about 30 Fortran

[21:03] < Chong-> Fortran is more popular in scientific computing.

[21:04] < Chong-> Arguably, the fastest advanced language.

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[21:06] < MS-> Not really. Languages aren't fast - implementations are.

[21:07] *** MS- is now known as ms-away

[21:07] < Chong-> yes. I mean in terms of implementations.

[21:43] *** ms-away has parted #kamaelia

[22:30] < Chong-> sleepy:-) Good night, all.

[22:33] *** Chong- has parted #kamaelia

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