[00:10] *** rave has joined #kamaelia

[00:11] < rave> nebdy???????????/////

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[06:50] < vmlemon_> Hi

[06:51] < simon89> hi

[06:52] < vmlemon_> Nay, we have snow

[06:55] *** simon89 looks out throw the window and see snow :(

[06:55] *** simon89 hates snow

[06:55] *** vmlemon_ is on a bus, at the moment...

[06:56] *** vmlemon_ also hates snow

[06:56] *** simon89 wont even go out of the house today...

[06:57] < vmlemon_> Wish I didn't have to, and our heating/hot water is kaput :(

[06:59] *** simon89 took a hot shower ~20 min ago, and is very happy that he has hot water

[07:02] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: dance

[07:02] Reply: does the macarena

[07:03] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: ecky

[07:03] Reply: Ptang!

[07:05] < vmlemon_> o.O 3 Bluetooth devices around...

[07:06] < vmlemon_> One of them has a load of Unicode characters in the name...

[07:09] < vmlemon_> Back in a bit

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[08:33] < Chong> Good morning, everyone.

[08:34] < Chong> My name is Chong and I am from University of Manchester.

[08:34] < Chong> I am strongly interested in joining in kamaelia project for Google Summer of Code 2008.

[08:36] < orphans> hey Chong, have you got an idea of what you'd like to work on?

[08:37] < Chong> Thanks for your attention, orphans.

[08:37] < Chong> In fact, I have interests in all Kamaelia projects, whether core or Exemplar.

[08:37] < Chong> I like the idea of Kamaelia, a component-based concurrency framework.

[08:38] < Chong> And because now it is near the end of application, I want to check which project still needs people most and I''d like to apply for that project.

[08:40] < orphans> Not sure I can speak for the project leaders, but they all seem pretty up for still hearing fresh ideas at this stage as far as I can tell. You could really do with a specific thing that you would like to work on though to get a decent proposal in

[08:43] < orphans> if you post up a bit about the thing you are most interested in it'd be useful for the admins - they will pick it up on the logs

[08:45] < Chong> That's great. One thing I am afraid is that the project might have been filled if I applied a specific project. In fact, the difference between these projects is not a big deal to me.

[08:46] < Chong> Can I ask which project you are working on, orphans?

[08:46] < vmlemon> Hi

[08:47] < Chong> hi, vmlemon

[08:47] < orphans> I've put in to work on a bit of a crazy example app doing networked music creation. I think it's more important that you're enthusiastic about a certain project than any duplication that takes place

[08:47] < orphans> vmlemon: hey

[08:48] < vmlemon> Hah, http://www.freemagenta.nl/

[08:49] < orphans> Chong - which part of Kamaelia do you find most interesting?

[08:55] < Chong> Thank you very much for your suggestion, orphans.

[08:56] < orphans> np :)

[08:57] < Chong> I have just seen the projects again, but it is hard to choose a particular one: they are all interesting.

[08:59] < Chong> In Exemplar Related projects, for example, multiwindow pygame, ER modelling tool, 3D Social Network Visualisation tool, Simple Video conferencing tool, Swarming P2P / layer 5 multicast radio system,... all sound interesting.

[09:01] < orphans> ahh, the joys of choice :) which of the ideas which look interesting do you think you know most about?

[09:01] < Chong> orphans: Do I have to pick one specific project to apply?

[09:01] < orphans> Chong: yeah, you propose an idea basically. Otherwise it's really open ended

[09:02] < orphans> i think the main thing the mentors want to see is that you have good ideas and are really enthusiastic about working for the summer on one thing

[09:04] < orphans> otherwise it's kinda hard work knowing what progress you're making etc etc. At the end of the day if it's not something you can show you're really interested in by putting in a good focused proposal it's more of a risk for the project to have you as an SoC student

[09:05] < Chong> To be honest, I am not an expert in all of them. But I have solid knowledge about computer programming and I am willing to learn these area-specific knowledge and practice my coding skills.

[09:06] < orphans> yeah, that's partly what it's all about :) It'd be useful if you could post up a few ideas for how you might go about doing one (or more) of the projects you are interested in

[09:06] < Chong> Yes. I can understand your concern.

[09:06] < orphans> i.e. what ideas you have for them, anything you think would be cool to do, stuff like that

[09:07] < Chong> So, today my purpose is to check which project needs people most, probably I will concentrate on that project.

[09:10] < orphans> fwiw I reckon you'd get on better and perhaps have a better chance if you picked the organization and project which you are most interested in and think you could bring a lot to, then go for that

[09:11] < orphans> don't worry too much about which project needs people - if you put in a strong application which the developers like and can show you're enthusiastic then you are in with a shot

[09:12] < Chong> Thanks for your encouragement, orphans.

[09:13] < Chong> orphans: How is your project getting along? Are there regular meeting during the projects?

[09:16] < orphans> I got my app in, and I'm kinda just waiting now - had a bit of feedback and stuff which is cool. When the programme starts there will be regular meetings with your mentor in Kamaelia yeah. Have a look at http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/SummerOfCode for a bit more info

[09:16] Reply: Hi, I'm a bot. I've been put here to answer faq's and log the channel. You can find the logs at http://yeoldeclue.com/logs/ Please don't ask 'any mentors here' since I'm logging for them. Yes, there is. If you just ask you question

[09:16] Reply: or post your idea, you may get a response - either from a mentor or fellow student or from someone reading the logs.

[09:16] Reply: Regarding applications we will be discussing applications (and maybe asking for improvements) until April 7th or 8th - remember no news may well be good news

[09:16] Reply: Some useful links/tips - use the template : http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/SummerOfCode2006Template - base page: http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/SummerOfCode

[09:16] Reply: Tips for a good application - q's to ask yourself: http://yeoldeclue.com/cgi-bin/blog/blog.cgi?rm=viewpost&nodeid=1206709783

[09:17] < orphans> kamaeliabot: late to the party as ever, but still useful :D

[09:19] < Chong> Thanks for your information, kamaeliabot.

[09:20] < Chong> One question, is the application very competitive?

[09:21] < orphans> heh, first year I've tried to do it so I don't know. Last I heard there were ~16 apps for kamaelia

[09:23] < Chong> Thanks for your insider information :D, orphans.

[09:24] < Chong> I can understand Kamaelia is a pretty hot project.

[09:24] < Chong> Thank you again for your kindly help, orphans and kamaeliabot. I will read all projects more carefully, pick one which I like most and best at, and then I will make an application this afternoon.

[09:25] < orphans> cool, good luck :)

[09:25] < Chong> Thanks. Have a nice day, guys.

[09:55] < bcarlyon|away> When is the deadline for applications?

[10:00] < orphans> today, midnight UTC

[10:00] < bcarlyon|away> hmm id better do my application then....

[10:00] < orphans> :)

[10:00] < orphans> what you applying for?

[10:01] < bcarlyon|away> I havnt quite decided yet, but i sat down this morning to install some missing ython bits, and thought about doing somethign with xml feeds and kamaelia

[10:01] < bcarlyon|away> ython = python

[10:03] < orphans> ahh cool, stuff like rss and that?

[10:03] < bcarlyon|away> yip

[10:05] < bcarlyon|away> Im thinking I will propose to do the multiwindow pygame paint programme and my xml idea

[10:07] < orphans> linked, or two different things to work at?

[10:08] < bcarlyon|away> I hadnt thought of linking them, but thats a good idea.... Thanks for the thought :-)

[10:09] < bcarlyon|away> Export import the data on the "paint panel" to xml

[10:09] < orphans> sounds cool

[10:38] < Lawouach> hello

[10:40] < orphans> hey Lawouach

[10:40] < orphans> how goes it?

[10:41] < Lawouach> good

[10:42] < Lawouach> had a good weekend with friends and family

[10:42] < Lawouach> so pretty good

[10:43] < orphans> cool :)

[10:47] < bcarlyon|away> How much did you write on your application orphans?

[10:48] *** orphans checks

[10:49] < orphans> ~1500 words, although I think a fair bit of that was blah waffle :)

[10:49] < bcarlyon|away> rofl

[10:49] < bcarlyon|away> I've only managed about 500, with less waffle

[11:21] < bcarlyon|away> Got my position on the google map down to the house :-) lol

[11:22] < orphans> heh, i did that. It just keeps zooming in :D

[11:22] < bcarlyon|away> and on satellite maps :-)

[11:22] < bcarlyon|away> although the map thinks my street is named as the one behind it...

[11:23] < bcarlyon|away> I take it Kamaelia is under BBC Research?

[11:23] < orphans> yeah

[11:24] < bcarlyon|away> Is the abstract on the google form supposed to be the same abstract as the synopsis on the suggested form on the Kamaelia site?

[11:25] < orphans> yup

[11:25] < bcarlyon|away> makes sesne

[11:25] < bcarlyon|away> imagine how much people must write if there is a 2500 character limit

[11:29] < bcarlyon|away> Did you put anything in the link to further info box?

[11:31] < orphans> nah - i think that's just if you have a webpage or something

[11:31] < bcarlyon|away> Did you apply for an other projects?

[11:31] < bcarlyon|away> s/an/any

[11:33] *** bcarlyon|away is now known as barrycarlyon

[11:33] < orphans> no, just this one

[11:34] < orphans> probably should have, but I'm pretty swamped with work at the moment so I'm crossing my fingers really

[11:38] < barrycarlyon> cool

[11:39] < barrycarlyon> Good Luck :-)

[11:39] < orphans> ta, you too :)

[11:39] < barrycarlyon> Thanks :-)

[11:39] < barrycarlyon> Look forward to working with you if we both get in :-)

[11:40] < barrycarlyon> How did you hear about Kamaelia?

[11:40] < orphans> looking through the SoC list

[11:41] < barrycarlyon> BBC Backstage mailing list for me :-)

[11:41] < orphans> ahh cool

[11:41] < barrycarlyon> ms sent a post about it

[11:41] < orphans> I really like writing python, and wanted to do something where I had a bit of freedom to do something I was interested in so it seemed like a pretty good fit

[11:42] < barrycarlyon> Ah cool, I dont know much about python yet, tho I am pretty good with Perl

[11:42] < barrycarlyon> so hopefully it should map across well

[11:42] < orphans> a lot of them seem to be kinda "impement this feature", which is cool for the software, but I like being able to have that bit of freedom to experiment with things

[11:43] < orphans> heh, I hate perl :)

[11:43] < barrycarlyon> Perl: "Its not a bug its a feature"

[11:43] < vmlemon> Hah

[11:43] < orphans> heh

[11:49] < barrycarlyon> Anywho time to make lunch, and then i should really do some coursework.....

[11:49] *** barrycarlyon is now known as bcarlyon|away

[11:49] *** vmlemon initially found Kamaelia through the rather difficult to find without Google BBC Open Source Projects page...

[11:55] < bcarlyon|away> just had a thought midnight UTC is actually 1am isnt it?

[11:56] < bcarlyon|away> i always confuse my self with BST

[11:57] < orphans> no idea :)

[12:07] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[12:09] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: ecky

[12:09] Reply: Ptang!

[12:09] < bcarlyon|away> Ptang?

[12:09] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: poke

[12:09] Reply: Not the eye! Not the eye!

[12:09] < bcarlyon|away> harsh

[12:09] < bcarlyon|away> kamaeliabot: hello

[12:09] < bcarlyon|away> ;-(

[12:09] < vmlemon_> I never got the eye

[12:09] < bcarlyon|away> lol

[12:10] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: dance

[12:10] Reply: does the macarena

[12:10] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: tango

[12:10] < vmlemon_> Aam

[12:11] < vmlemon_> *Aaw

[12:12] < bcarlyon|away> Ah bugger, just discovered i got overdue library books :-(

[12:12] < orphans> kamaeliabot: bonjour

[12:12] < orphans> bah

[12:12] < bcarlyon|away> kamaeliabot: help

[12:12] Reply: Name: kamaeliabot Channel: #kamaelia

[12:12] Reply: I do a simple job -- recording all channel traffic.

[12:12] Reply: Lines prefixed by [off] won't get recorded

[12:12] Reply: I respond to the following: 'logfile', 'infofile', 'help', 'date', 'time', 'dance', 'poke', 'slap', 'ecky', 'boo', and 'reload {modulename}'.

[12:12] < bcarlyon|away> kamaeliabot: slap

[12:12] Reply: Ouch!

[12:13] < bcarlyon|away> haha

[12:51] *** MS- has joined #kamaelia

[12:51] < MS-> afternoon

[12:51] *** MS- is around for a little while (very little while)

[12:51] *** MS- notes "rave" didn't ask a q, so can't answer

[12:52] *** MS- notes Chong is in the same city as himself

[12:53] < MS-> "today my purpose is to check which project needs people most,"

[12:53] < MS-> All projects need people. If you mean Kamaelia/BBC Research by this, we're primarily after exemplar projects

[12:54] < MS-> If people don't have their own ideas then the list of ideas on the ideas page covers most ideas at present that I've thought of as immediately useful in some shape or form, though other people are proposing a variety of interesting and good ideas

[12:57] < MS-> I suppose if I had to pick one that has some direct motivation behind which would mean it would be *specifically* useful to see happen

[12:58] < MS-> it'd be the Open GL version of the topology visualiser such that it can be used for visualisation of a social network stored in a database

[12:58] < MS-> that is something that would be particularly useful to see done

[12:59] < MS-> Sounds awkward, but many components pre-exist to help with that

[13:00] < MS-> However, as orphans said "if you put in a strong application which the developers like and can show you're enthusiastic then you are in with a shot"

[13:00] < MS-> which is correct

[13:01] < MS-> Also, this: " I will read all projects more carefully, pick one which I like most" is probably the best approach. I'd worry less about "best at"

[13:01] < MS-> OK

[13:01] < MS-> got to go

[13:01] *** MS- is now known as ms-afk

[13:11] < Chong> Thank you so much for answering my questions, Michael.

[13:14] < Chong> The 3D topology visualiser seems very interesting.

[13:15] < ms-afk> you're welcome

[13:15] < ms-afk> (still largely afk)

[13:23] < ms-afk> Chong: BTW, I'm probably just up the road from you (ie about 10 minute walk)

[13:29] < Chong> ms-afk: So, you are in Manchester BBC, Oxford Road?:)

[13:29] < ms-afk> yep

[13:31] < ms-afk> Went to manchester uni as well BTW (where I did CS)

[13:31] < Chong> That's wonderful. It's more convenient for comunication.

[13:31] < ms-afk> It's certainly unusual for open source :)

[13:32] < Chong> True:)

[13:32] < Chong> Believe it or not, I have guessed that you may be from U of Man.

[13:33] *** rave has joined #kamaelia

[13:33] < rave> nebdy here?

[13:34] < Chong> Because you used a dia file from cs of U of Man in the ERM project

[13:34] < ms-afk> Chong: heh, correct :)

[13:34] < Chong> rave: welcome

[13:34] < rave> okk

[13:35] < rave> i m here ragardin my app

[13:35] < rave> on gsoc

[13:35] < ms-afk> Have you put in an app yet?

[13:35] < rave> yup

[13:35] < ms-afk> (I'm not totally here yet)

[13:35] < ms-afk> Which app?

[13:35] < rave> artificially intellignt grid assistant

[13:35] < rave> micheal sparks added a cmmnt n askd me to cm here?

[13:36] < rave> u r d same guy?

[13:36] < ms-afk> Yes, I am

[13:36] < rave> ohkk..

[13:36] < rave> gud eve

[13:36] < rave> accrdin to my country time

[13:36] < rave> :)

[13:36] < ms-afk> hello

[13:37] < rave> i wanted ur input on how to integrate my app

[13:37] < rave> with kamaelia

[13:37] < rave> Michael Philip Sparks

[13:37] < rave> This project could, probably, be made very interesting from a kamaelia perspective. Please consider adapting your application. If you would like guidance, please hop on IRC for a chat.

[13:38] < ms-afk> OK, I will answer as quick as I can, but I am in the middle of something right now (hence "-afk")

[13:38] < rave> ohkk

[13:38] < rave> np

[13:40] *** mhrd-afk has joined #kamaelia

[13:41] < ms-afk> Incidentally, what research into python based grid toolkits have you done? Globus is one of (if not the) the major grid toolkits out there and an example

[13:43] *** mhrd-afk has parted #kamaelia

[13:46] < ms-afk> rave: what is the actual time where you are now?

[13:49] < Chong> ms: it is snowing now in Manchester, a bit heavy

[13:49] < ms-afk> hailing I thought

[13:50] < ms-afk> :)

[13:51] < Chong> maybe. very strong

[13:56] < ms-afk> stopped now :)

[13:56] < ms-afk> (currently assisting a colleague with an install, hence able to answer inane questions at present, but not much more)

[13:57] *** orphans is inane

[13:57] < orphans> hey ms-afk

[14:00] < Chong> yes:)

[14:02] < ms-afk> hm. he/she left the room

[14:02] < ms-afk> Not a very serious application then and didn't answer either question

[14:03] < ms-afk> could have a dodgy connection I gues

[14:03] < ms-afk> s

[14:04] < ms-afk> Chong: I think orphans point you at the tips link which I wrote which contains the sort of q's

[14:04] < ms-afk> and tips I've been asked here

[14:04] < ms-afk> If not, it's here http://yeoldeclue.com/cgi-bin/blog/blog.cgi?rm=viewpost&nodeid=1206709783

[14:07] < Chong> it's likely

[14:08] < Chong> I'm seeing. It's very helpful. Thanks again, Michael.

[14:13] < ms-afk> you're welcome

[14:13] < ms-afk> I'd like to help more right now, but this is pushing it a bit close

[14:14] < ms-afk> I guess an annouce only went round the dept recently?

[14:14] < ms-afk> I forwarded a mail to KKL

[14:33] *** vmlemon_ has joined #kamaelia

[14:34] < vmlemon_> Hi

[14:41] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[14:41] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[14:48] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: dance

[14:48] Reply: does the macarena

[14:49] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: help

[14:49] Reply: Name: kamaeliabot Channel: #kamaelia

[14:49] Reply: I do a simple job -- recording all channel traffic.

[14:49] Reply: Lines prefixed by [off] won't get recorded

[14:49] Reply: I respond to the following: 'logfile', 'infofile', 'help', 'date', 'time', 'dance', 'poke', 'slap', 'ecky', 'boo', and 'reload {modulename}'.

[14:50] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: boo

[14:50] Reply: Nice try, but that didn't scare me

[14:51] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[14:52] *** vmlemon__ is now known as vmlemon_

[14:54] *** j_baker has joined #kamaelia

[14:55] < j_baker> hello everyone

[14:55] < vmlemon_> Hi

[14:55] < j_baker> How was everyone's weekend?

[14:56] < vmlemon_> So-so

[14:56] < j_baker> I spent the entire weekend working. :(

[14:59] < j_baker> ms-afk, whenever you get back, I have a question for you: Would it be helpful to you if I posted the project I just finished last week? (it's in C#)

[14:59] Reply: Hi, I'm a bot. I've been put here to answer faq's and log the channel. You can find the logs at http://yeoldeclue.com/logs/ Please don't ask 'any mentors here' since I'm logging for them. Yes, there is. If you just ask you question

[14:59] Reply: or post your idea, you may get a response - either from a mentor or fellow student or from someone reading the logs.

[14:59] Reply: Regarding applications we will be discussing applications (and maybe asking for improvements) until April 7th or 8th - remember no news may well be good news

[14:59] Reply: Some useful links/tips - use the template : http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/SummerOfCode2006Template - base page: http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/SummerOfCode

[14:59] Reply: Tips for a good application - q's to ask yourself: http://yeoldeclue.com/cgi-bin/blog/blog.cgi?rm=viewpost&nodeid=1206709783

[15:46] *** j_baker has parted #kamaelia

[16:12] *** j_baker has joined #kamaelia

[16:12] < vmlemon_> Hi again

[16:13] < j_baker> thank you

[16:15] *** ms-afk is now known as MS-

[16:16] < MS-> Back for about 20 mins or so, then off, then back again in around 2-3 hours :)

[16:16] *** MS- reads back

[16:17] *** vmlemon__ has joined #kamaelia

[16:17] < MS-> j_baker: Seeing what sort of code you've done in the past is useful. I tend to take it with a pinch of salt because kamaelia is often slightly different from people's normal setup

[16:17] < MS-> but it does tend to be useful

[16:18] < j_baker> Sweet. I'll post it to the website I made.

[16:18] < MS-> If someone has a mini-axon and has done something with it, that's often even better :)

[16:19] < MS-> So your JKFlipFlop test is useful in that regard as well

[16:19] < j_baker> I had actually intended to make a few components to model the EE project I had last week, but that project ended up being way more complicated than I anticipated. :(

[16:20] < vmlemon__> Hmm, are "ports" to other languages accepted?

[16:20] < MS-> vmlemon__: Depends on how fully fledged the proposal, but it could be, yes

[16:20] < MS-> Proof of concepts exist in ruby, C++ & Java after all

[16:20] < MS-> (the latter one wasn't created by us(

[16:20] < MS-> )

[16:21] < MS-> Though I must admit this year I'm personally more interested in growing the existing codebase

[16:21] < vmlemon__> Cool, just curious

[16:21] < MS-> :)

[16:22] < j_baker> MS- I was also wondering, what would be a good way to learn a bit more about web programming with python?

[16:23] < j_baker> Do you think it's better to start off with a framework or straight CGI?

[16:24] < vmlemon__> Tried to use mod_python with Kamaelia?

[16:25] < j_baker> Not as of yet. My webhost doesn't support mod_python and I haven't tried installing apache on my own computer.

[16:25] < vmlemon__> Aah

[16:29] < MS-> j_baker: Read Lawouach's book

[16:29] < MS-> :-D

[16:30] < MS-> http://www.cherrypyessentials.com/

[16:30] < MS-> More seriously, I'd look at wsgi systems, since those will run from a CGI

[16:31] < MS-> Inside the CGI script you do this:

[16:31] < MS-> from wsgiref.handlers import CGIHandler

[16:31] < MS-> CGIHandler().run( your app )

[16:31] < MS-> Probably play also with Django & Pylons

[16:32] < MS-> But I don't view myself as a web development person. I've written stuff that sits in the web, and does interesting stuff, but they're mainly targeted at specific tasks and tools

[16:32] < j_baker> Sweet. I'll give it a look.

[16:34] < j_baker> I kinda agree. Web programming interests me, but web design isn't necessarily my forte.

[16:36] < vmlemon__> Urgh, hurry up damn bus :|

[16:39] < vmlemon__> And it finally came

[16:40] < vmlemon__> What a farce

[16:44] < j_baker> Busses here are bad too. It's too bad people where I live are just too dependent on cars these days.

[16:45] < vmlemon__> I just discovered a delightfully named Bluetooth device, here...

[16:49] < MS-> Chong: Don't forget to put in an app in sooner rather than later...

[16:55] *** maveriick has joined #kamaelia

[16:55] *** vmlemon__ is playing with the Python interpreter on his phone

[16:55] < maveriick> hi everybody

[16:55] Reply: hi

[16:56] < maveriick> vmlemon: playing on the phone ...with interpreter?? how?

[16:56] < vmlemon__> It's a port by Nokia to Symbian OS

[16:57] < maveriick> vmlemon: gr8

[16:57] < maveriick> whats your phn model no.?

[16:58] < vmlemon__> It also doubles as a basic calculator...

[16:58] < vmlemon__> N70

[16:58] < maveriick> I use a pretty low end model ...3110 classic ..probably not applicable for mine..

[16:59] < vmlemon__> Might be, assuming it runs S60 2nd Edition

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[17:00] < vmlemon__> (There's a matrix of models and OS/S60 versions on the Nokia and Symbian sites)

[17:00] < maveriick> S60 means?

[17:01] < vmlemon__> Although not all their phones run Symbian

[17:01] < maveriick> I think when Android comes into focus ..then we can do many things even on low end phones

[17:02] < vmlemon__> Series 60 (S60) is a GUI and a set of system frameworks and components

[17:03] < vmlemon__> Android looks interesting, although it doesn't support native/non-Java apps, as far as I know

[17:04] < vmlemon__> Jython might be ported, though

[17:04] < maveriick> vmlemon: Its just started ...hope it will support in the future ... including real python :)

[17:04] *** MS- heads off back home

[17:04] < MS-> back online in around 2 hours or so I guess

[17:05] < vmlemon__> See you

[17:05] < MS-> If people have any queries re gsoc, *please* post them even if I'm not here, I can read them when I get back on line from the logs :)

[17:05] < MS-> cya

[17:05] *** MS- has parted #kamaelia

[17:08] < vmlemon__> I think the hypePhone will tank, once people get sick of the restrictions/lack of common features found on most other handsets

[17:09] < vmlemon__> (e.g. no MMS or video recording, and obnoxious 3rd party app practices)

[17:10] < maveriick> vmlemon__: don't you like that you can program/customize your phone as the way you like?

[17:10] < maveriick> vmlemon__: Donno why you want, but you can replace the answer key to end call and end key to answer phone..

[17:10] < maveriick> :-)

[17:11] < vmlemon__> I like being able to install 3rd party apps without restriction

[17:12] < maveriick> thouhg its not time to comment on Android ...miles to go ...but there are certain industry leader behind it ...and they put in a lot of money for android developers contest..

[17:12] < maveriick> Hopefully by the contest they get 50 quality android app to show case and kick start development for android..

[17:13] < maveriick> Thats what make me see it bright

[17:13] < vmlemon__> And being able to customize the hell out of stuff, and add extra storage capacity

[17:15] < vmlemon__> Which isn't possible on the iPhone without potentially rendering it unusable and faffing with crap like Jailbreak

[17:18] < maveriick> hmmm

[17:20] < vmlemon__> I can just download a .SIS file, transfer it with Bluetooth and open the message to run the installer with no mess and no fusr

[17:20] < vmlemon__> *fuss

[17:21] < vmlemon__> and it's supported "out of the box"

[17:22] < vmlemon__> without hacking

[17:24] < maveriick> vmlemon__: for now you are right...

[17:26] < vmlemon__> Exacty

[17:26] < vmlemon__> *exactly

[17:28] < vmlemon__> I do watch other platforms with interest, though

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[17:36] < Davbo> Good afternoon all

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[19:02] *** bcarlyon|nub is now known as bcarlyon|laptop

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[19:24] *** MS- has joined #kamaelia

[19:24] < MS-> kamaeliabot: dance

[19:24] Reply: does the macarena

[19:24] < bcarlyon|laptop> Greetings MS- I put my application in :-)

[19:25] < maveriick> MS- .. I also did one...

[19:26] < bcarlyon|laptop> How is MS- today?

[19:27] *** xotaku has joined #kamaelia

[19:27] < xotaku> hello

[19:27] < MS-> Hi

[19:28] < MS-> bcarlyon|laptop, maveriick: I saw.

[19:28] < bcarlyon|laptop> :-)

[19:28] < MS-> bcarlyon|laptop: Been pretty busy to be frank :)

[19:28] < bcarlyon|laptop> That sucks, but it is a Monday....

[19:29] < xotaku> MS-: i have read blog entry about SoC applications.

[19:30] < MS-> xotaku: Cool. FWIW it's a very good looking app. It shows that you've been chatting to people about approaches :)

[19:30] < xotaku> and i have some more specific ideas about twsited reactor awareness of being scheduled bu axon, but not sure about them

[19:31] < MS-> That's cool - the best way to become sure IMO is to try them and see if they work. If they don't they don't and if they do, that's great :)

[19:31] < xotaku> i mean, i didnt write them in the application because they can simply be wrong ;)

[19:31] < MS-> heh

[19:32] < MS-> argh, phone. biab :)

[19:34] < xotaku> one idea is make reactor use nonblocking select (when no data, then yield and led the axon schedule different components). and then scheduling that kind of twisted component straightforward

[19:36] < xotaku> problem occurs when twisted is non-stop processing, then it can consume all time

[19:37] < xotaku> another problem is - twisted has its own scheduling feature (callLater)

[19:39] < xotaku> wich is build on top of select timeout, so when timeout is removed completelly, there will be a need for another alike mechanism.

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[20:11] < xotaku> too bad, i have to leave already. have fun with the applications.

[20:11] < xotaku> see you soon

[20:12] *** xotaku has parted #kamaelia

[20:37] < Chong> MS: I just submitted my application. Decided to do the project "Change the topology visualiser to work in full 3D".

[20:46] < Lawouach> back

[20:46] < Lawouach> for justa a bit

[20:58] < Davbo> Lawouach, could you have a look at this diagram i'm making for my application and see if you think it works?

[20:58] < Lawouach> show me

[21:22] < Lawouach> well gotta go for now

[21:23] < Lawouach> talk to you later guys

[21:23] < MS-> back

[21:23] < MS-> now that's timing :)

[21:23] < MS-> cya Lawouach :)

[21:23] < Lawouach> ah

[21:23] < Lawouach> well

[21:24] < Lawouach> anything you'd like to say before I leave?

[21:24] < MS-> Sleep well ? :-)

[21:24] < Lawouach> :)

[21:24] < Lawouach> yeah unless my neighbours start listening to crappy music at 2am again

[21:24] < Lawouach> anyway, talk to you tomorrow

[21:24] < Lawouach> I'll try to come by during the day

[21:25] < MS-> cool.

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[21:25] *** dave__ sighs

[21:25] < dave__> Good job vmlemon didn't see that otherwise he'd have cracked his "Be Where?" joke again

[21:26] *** dave__ pokes Davbo

[21:26] < MS-> Chong: Looking at your app, it looks pretty good. I think if there's something I'd look to change, it would be to extend the deliverables (esp the "will deliver") section - specifically to describe an example application/use of the visualiser that you would hope/expect to implement

[21:27] < MS-> It strikes me that you could potentially use it to visualise (or demonstrate/explain as a visualisation) aspects of your PhD research

[21:28] < MS-> (maybe)

[21:28] < MS-> Just an idea/example

[21:30] < MS-> Also, I'd break it down slightly more - note that the existing topology visualiser allows for customised node types/rendering and would need opengl equivalents to the 2D versions, however the existing 2D physics engine should (AIUI) map into 3D quite well

[21:30] < dave__> MS-, fyi don't talk to off-channel Davbo it should time out soon

[21:30] < MS-> dave__: Guessed that :-)

[21:31] < MS-> Chong: In a way that's quite nice, since it actually means you should be able to focus more on the look/feel and uses/use cases of the visualiser

[21:31] < dave__> thought so, just checkin' so you don't waste time

[21:31] < MS-> dave__: Oh, I'll probably waste my time in other ways ;-)

[21:32] < MS-> Chong: However there is scope for clumping or dealing with hierarchies

[21:32] < MS-> (think "opening up a node to see the graph inside")

[21:32] < dave__> I'm having a last minute application panic, for the second time too! damn deadline extension ;)

[21:32] < MS-> heh

[21:32] < MS-> Seeing a small rush of applications as well.

[21:33] *** bcarlyon|laptop lol

[21:34] < MS-> Gosh, really arrogant one there

[21:34] < MS-> (no one here)

[21:34] < MS-> :)

[21:35] < bcarlyon|laptop> no one where? Im confused.....

[21:35] < dave__> Good ol' open source community

[21:35] < dave__> you do get a few of those

[21:36] *** bcarlyon|laptop goes back to sleep.

[21:37] < dave__> he was talking about one of the applications from SoC bcarlyon|away :P

[21:37] < dave__> oops damn tab complete

[21:37] < bcarlyon|laptop> both bcarlyons are me

[21:38] < MS-> dave__: Just talking about the latest last minute app I'm reading - came in in the last 10-20 minutes or so

[21:38] < bcarlyon|laptop> one is me the other is my ubuntu box the other side of the bedroom :-)

[21:38] < bcarlyon|laptop> AH

[21:38] < bcarlyon|laptop> :-

[21:38] < bcarlyon|laptop> )

[21:39] < dave__> How you finding Ubuntu bcarlyon|laptop ?

[21:39] < bcarlyon|laptop> I didnt actually know when the deadline was for applications, so i was lucky it was extended, been busy doing coursework this past couple of weeks. :-)

[21:39] < bcarlyon|laptop> Ubuntu is good

[21:39] < dave__> I cannot believe Davbo hasn't timed-out yet.

[21:39] < bcarlyon|laptop> takes a while to get used to it, but i love the multi desktop feature.

[21:39] < bcarlyon|laptop> Who is davbo?

[21:39] < dave__> moi

[21:39] < bcarlyon|laptop> ghost him

[21:40] < bcarlyon|laptop> msg nickserv ghost Davbo password

[21:41] < bcarlyon|laptop> that will kill him, and you can claim him bacj

[21:41] *** dave__ is now known as Davbo

[21:41] < bcarlyon|laptop> back*

[21:41] < bcarlyon|laptop> :-

[21:41] < Davbo> good point

[21:41] < Davbo> thanks bcarlyon|laptop!

[21:41] < bcarlyon|laptop> Used to run my own irc server on the windows xp box :-)

[21:41] < bcarlyon|laptop> No problemt Davbo

[21:42] < Davbo> win xp make a nice irc server?

[21:42] < bcarlyon|laptop> unreal ircD

[21:42] < bcarlyon|laptop> worked quite well, had services running on it too

[21:42] < bcarlyon|laptop> havnt moved it to my freebsd box yet, ran out of disk space and havnt got a new hd for the freebsd box yet...

[21:43] < Chong> MS: sorry for missing your messages. Just off for a cup of coffee.

[21:44] < Chong> MS: Thank you so much for your encouragement.

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[21:45] < Chong> MS: I agree that it's better to add an application example to deliverables. I'll add it shortly.

[21:49] < Chong> MS: yes. It's a good idea. I have also the same feeling of using the visualiser to shown neural network topology or optimal path topology.

[21:54] < MS-> Thinking about the apps we've had this year, considering that last year dirac wasn't separate we've got a similar number of applications as last year

[21:54] < MS-> though I think this year we've had, overall, either good applications or terrible

[21:55] < MS-> with not too much in between, which I think means our pages probably scared off a few people

[21:55] < MS-> But it seems to mean that we'll probably have to turn away fewer good applications this way this year. (not counted up how many good ones yet)

[21:56] < Davbo> it's a difficult concept to summarise, it reminds me of learning Model-View-Controller the best way to learn it is to construct it

[21:56] < Davbo> lots probably didn't want to invest the time into the MiniAxon

[21:57] < Davbo> which imo is the best way to learn the basics

[21:57] < MS-> Indeed. Personally I find that a good weeding out process, since having run it past the python-tutor list in the past, I'm happy it's at the right level

[21:58] < Davbo> Yeah I agree, it was just right for my limited Python experience

[22:01] < Davbo> I think i'll leave mine as it is for now MS- unless you've got any last second feedback?

[22:02] < MS-> It's a bit late really for much feedback.

[22:03] < Davbo> Yeah i'll just leave it and try to stop panicking

[22:05] < MS-> I doubt we're going to get anything spectacular and new in the next 2 hours. It's possible, but unlikely

[22:06] < MS-> This is amusing though: http://timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?month=4&day=8&year=2008&hour=00&min=0&sec=1&p0=0

[22:07] < Davbo> lol

[22:09] < Davbo> I should make one of those for my university project deadlines

[22:09] < Davbo> I once handed in a piece of work on time by 20 seconds (they stamp it with date/time)

[22:09] < Davbo> due to a late train

[22:10] < Davbo> 20 seconds more i'd have lost 10%

[22:15] < Davbo> How many students you have last year MS- ?

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[22:17] < MS-> We had a couple of dirac students, and 5 kamaelia ones. However one of the kamaelia ones was a no show (which sucks for the people who didn't get in)

[22:19] < MS-> Also, after a few weeks another student disappeared, though he had a justifiable reason when I caught up with him several months later

[22:19] < Davbo> Yeah there could be a good reason i suppose

[22:19] < MS-> (he'd moved cities and lost all network connectivity, meaning he'd completely dropped off the internet for somewhere between 4 and 6 months)

[22:19] < bcarlyon|laptop> Several Months later, thats annoying....

[22:19] < Davbo> and he failed to mention?

[22:19] < bcarlyon|laptop> ah loss of network...

[22:19] < MS-> iirc the move was for personal reasons

[22:20] < Davbo> Ah

[22:20] < MS-> It was clearly rather unexpected

[22:20] < MS-> So in practical terms we had 3 kamaelia GSOC students last year

[22:21] < Davbo> That's a real shame

[22:21] < MS-> It's life - you can't predict how some things will go really

[22:22] < MS-> The concerning one really was the complete no-show and that was an application that looked really good

[22:22] < MS-> but the student had just put his application in on the web app rather than being willing to communicate using IRC or email

[22:23] < MS-> but given it was a relatively last minute app that didn't worry too much since they responded to q's on the web app

[22:23] < MS-> But as they say, you live and learn

[22:23] < Davbo> Yeah the web app doesn't allow for much back and forth beyond the comments really

[22:23] < Davbo> Argh brb need to reboot.

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[22:34] *** MS- marks an application ineligible

[22:35] < MS-> (Student thinks he's gods gift to technology and doesn't need to put together a proposal, and thinks simply resting on his laurels is a way to show his usefulness to the project)

[22:37] < MS-> Gosh - a *good* looking application in the last 10 minutes :-)

[22:37] < bcarlyon|laptop> Lol

[22:37] < bcarlyon|laptop> As long as that is not me.....

[22:38] < MS-> heh, no, wasn't thinking you :)

[22:38] < MS-> Nice to see one bad one booted out the list to see it replaced by an applictaion that has clearly put effort into understanding the system

[22:39] < MS-> even if I've not seen them on the channel :)

[22:39] < bcarlyon|laptop> If they are a Gods gift to technology should they not get a real job and not need university or GSoC....

[22:39] < orphans> hey all

[22:40] < bcarlyon|laptop> Hi

[22:40] < MS-> bcarlyon|laptop: They claim to have an income that's __significantly__ higher than mine, so why they'd want to participate in gsoc is beyond me

[22:40] < bcarlyon|laptop> Bizarre

[22:41] < MS-> after all if they want want to help an open source project they could just get on with it

[22:41] < MS-> Based on the amount they suggested the income from GSOC would be peanuts to them

[22:42] < bcarlyon|laptop> Maybe they just want the T-Shirt.

[22:42] < MS-> LOL

[22:42] < MS-> maybe

[22:43] < bcarlyon|laptop> Although if that was the case, I'm sure they is/has been one on ebay....

[22:59] < MS-> (oh, to be clear, GSOC wouldn't be peanuts to me ;-) )

[22:59] < bcarlyon|laptop> Really?

[23:00] < MS-> Really :)

[23:00] < bcarlyon|laptop> I dont know how much we get, as I'm not in it for the money, tho that will help me thru the summer holidays.

[23:00] < bcarlyon|laptop> I'm in it for the experience.

[23:00] < bcarlyon|laptop> And the learning.

[23:00] *** MS- nods

[23:00] < bcarlyon|laptop> 1 hour to go....

[23:10] < Davbo> The money is a part for me, because I'll have a crap summer job if i'm not on GSoC

[23:10] < Davbo> Although it can't be that important to me since I've only posted one application

[23:11] < bcarlyon|laptop> I probably wont have a job at all...freelance.

[23:11] < bcarlyon|laptop> Lol

[23:12] < j_baker> I'm not gonna lie. The money will be nice. But I'm also applying because Kamaelia interests me.

[23:15] < j_baker> MS- I just posted another source to my page. I know it's a tad late for you to give feedback on it, but it will hopefully help in the application process.

[23:15] < MS-> ta :)

[23:41] < Chong> MS: I have updated my application following your suggestion.

[23:43] < MS-> thanks

[23:46] < Chong> My pleasure. Thank you very much your help.

[23:48] < bcarlyon|laptop> Have you had the time to look at my application MS-?

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