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[13:38] < Davbo> Good afternoon

[13:40] < Davbo> Lawouach, you read my application? (you get a mention in it)

[13:43] < Lawouach> I did

[13:43] < Lawouach> It sounds like a good proposal to me

[13:44] < Lawouach> Very much in line with examples Kamaelia usually thrives on

[13:44] < Davbo> hussah! :)

[13:44] < Lawouach> Personally I was intrigued by a video frame-by-frame editor with a few painting tools that would allow for frame editing

[13:44] < Lawouach> I'd find it fun

[13:45] < Davbo> yeah :)

[13:47] < orphans> Davbo: what's your proposal?

[13:48] < Davbo> I've some ideas for little details but i'm going to make a simple one first then build the real project

[13:48] < orphans> you doing the multi-windowed pygame thing, or am I thinking of someone else?

[13:48] < Davbo> nope, thats me :)

[13:48] < orphans> cool

[13:49] *** orphans reads the thing on the ideas page

[13:50] < orphans> ahh, looks interesting :)

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[15:11] < j_baker> Can anybody here confirm that my most recent application was received?

[15:11] < j_baker> (I submitted it, but it would still let me make changes to it after I hit update so I wanted to make sure)

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[15:56] < Davbo> Just bought an eee PC, anyone got one?

[15:57] < j_baker> Not me.

[15:57] < j_baker> Any good?

[15:58] < Davbo> hope so, ordered it online :)

[16:08] < j_baker> They're only $300 right?

[16:09] < Davbo> well it was about £180 for me

[16:19] < j_baker> What does KeyError: inbox mean? Does it mean that there's some inbox that doesn't match an outbox?

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[16:22] < vmlemon_> Hi

[16:22] < j_baker> hello

[16:56] < vmlemon_> Hmm, anyone know if BBC World Service has an FM frequency?

[16:56] Reply: Hm?

[16:57] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: dance

[16:57] Reply: does the macarena

[17:01] < Lawouach> back

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[17:51] < Davbo> vmlemon_, you can listen to World Service after Radio 4 i think

[17:51] < Davbo> when radio 4 disappears at 2am? 1am? something like that

[17:54] < vmlemon_> Aah

[18:51] < vmlemon_> kamaelia: ecky

[18:52] < vmlemon_> kamaeliabot: dance

[18:52] Reply: does the macarena

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[19:04] < xotaku> evening

[19:04] < vmlemon_> Ouch, I've spent almost £25 on data services this month, so far

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[20:08] < xotaku> i have some reflections about twisted integration

[20:08] < xotaku> what kind of integration should it be

[20:09] < xotaku> 1) we write typical twisted application

[20:09] < vmlemon__> Access to Kamaelia components through it?

[20:10] < xotaku> vmlemon__: or is it about running twisted app as a component?

[20:11] < vmlemon__> Maybe even both

[20:11] < xotaku> some kind of wrapper around twisted, so we cann run twisted app

[20:11] < vmlemon__> Depending on how much work you wanted to do...

[20:11] < xotaku> which uses inboxes, outboxes

[20:11] < xotaku> and can be scheduled by axon

[20:12] < xotaku> but this can be hard, because once we call reactor.run() in twisted app

[20:12] < xotaku> we give up controll

[20:13] < orphans> xotaku: maybe a threaded component then?

[20:13] < vmlemon__> Interesting

[20:13] < xotaku> yes... but it depends on how reactor works

[20:13] < orphans> how does it work? :)

[20:14] < xotaku> internally... who knows ;)

[20:15] < xotaku> seroisly, there are different reactors in twisted available

[20:16] < xotaku> default one is based on select()

[20:17] < xotaku> if if particular file-descriptor is ready to read/write

[20:18] < xotaku> it calls apropriate defferer

[20:19] < xotaku> i think it can be possible to run it inside threaded component

[20:19] < xotaku> s/can be/is/

[20:19] < orphans> yeesh, twisted is mind boggling :)

[20:20] < xotaku> but we would like to communicate with this twisted-compenent

[20:20] < orphans> what would kamaelia/twisted integration let you do?

[20:21] < orphans> like in real terms what could I make happen which can't happen now?

[20:21] < xotaku> use case

[20:21] < xotaku> lets consider some protocol

[20:21] < xotaku> for example ftp

[20:21] < orphans> yeah, I can't really get my head round twisted :)

[20:21] < orphans> uh huh

[20:22] < xotaku> if we would like to write ftp client component

[20:22] < orphans> yup

[20:22] < xotaku> we have to implement some ad-hoc state machine

[20:23] < xotaku> to authenticate, keep track on current state

[20:23] < xotaku> stuff like that

[20:23] < orphans> yeah, sure

[20:23] < xotaku> and twisted is great in such usecases

[20:23] < vmlemon__> Can't you pull parts out of Twisted and hammer them into Kamaelia components?

[20:24] < orphans> i think the architecture's kinda different though. xotaku: have you looked at the bittorrent code?

[20:24] < xotaku> orphans: nope, not yet

[20:24] < orphans> might give an idea of how it's done

[20:24] < xotaku> but I asume i should ;)

[20:25] < orphans> yeah, if sourceforge wasn't so cruddy... firefox *can* find the server. I'm pretty sure of it...

[20:26] < vmlemon__> SuckForge? ;)

[20:27] < xotaku> anyways, it would be neat idea to be able to write twisted app, "put" it into a component (something like FileLike wrapper)

[20:27] < xotaku> and then use if in pipeline

[20:28] < xotaku> for example

[20:28] < orphans> yeah, sounds pretty neat

[20:28] < xotaku> this is cool

[20:30] < xotaku> so it should require some twisted reactor tweaks

[20:30] < xotaku> to let it hadle inbox/outbox stuff

[20:31] < orphans> i guess

[20:31] < orphans> maybe even making reactor an axon-ey scheduler?

[20:32] < xotaku> yes

[20:32] < orphans> way over my head here btw :D

[20:32] *** vmlemon__ thought of having a plug-in system for certain protocols (e.g. HTTP) so new extensions/features like WebDAV or BITS could be added quickly...

[20:32] < xotaku> that would be interesting too

[20:33] < xotaku> or just force reactor to yield form time to time ;)

[20:34] < xotaku> but it can be ticky

[20:34] < xotaku> s/ticky/tricky/

[20:34] < orphans> yeah, sounds a bit hacky that maybe. Is there any way in twisted to do stuff at a kinda lower level?

[20:36] < xotaku> orphans: you mean, a layer below reactor?

[20:36] < orphans> yeah

[20:36] < xotaku> i think not, not sure though

[20:37] < xotaku> but as long twisted has reveral reactors

[20:38] < orphans> what I can see from the bittorrent thing it just wraps the torrent stuff, not any of the twisted stuff, and whacks it all in a threaded component

[20:38] < xotaku> like epoll/poll, select or gtk based ones

[20:38] < xotaku> it sould not be hard to roll out kamaelia baseg one ;)

[20:39] < xotaku> orphans: ok, i have to take a look at it

[20:40] < xotaku> but usage is quite different here

[20:40] < xotaku> we (i) would like to have some more general machiery

[20:40] < xotaku> to run twisted apps

[20:41] < orphans> yeah. hum

[20:41] < xotaku> but using threaded comonent looks most straightforward approach

[20:41] < orphans> i'm sure it's gotta be possible (after all, it's on the ideas list which sounds pretty optimistic :)) but I can't get my head round how it might work

[20:42] < xotaku> ok, in that case i will take a look at the bittorrent component

[20:42] < xotaku> and at reactor architecture

[20:43] < xotaku> and i will write down proposal sketch

[20:45] < xotaku> soc deadline is really soon :|

[20:47] < xotaku> is there any chance to talk to MS- before the deadline?

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[20:48] < orphans> fraid not I don't think

[20:48] < orphans> Lawouach is possibly your best bet if you can catch him on an evening

[20:49] < xotaku> which timezone? ;)

[20:49] < orphans> anyways, I've got my nightly appointment with a glass of something alcoholic at a warm cosy drinking establishment

[20:49] < orphans> bye all :)

[20:49] < xotaku> orphans: have a good time

[20:49] < orphans> he's in france, so if you can catch him now-ish

[20:50] < orphans> will do :)

[20:50] < xotaku> orphans: ok, thanks

[20:50] < orphans> byeee

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[20:57] < xotaku> i am lewving too

[20:57] < xotaku> good night

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[21:17] < vmlemon> ping

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[21:25] < j_baker> Lawouach, ms said that it would be helpful to have a code sample with my GSoC app. What should I do with it?

[21:25] < j_baker> Should I put it on my webpage somewhere or check it in to SVN somewhere?

[21:25] < j_baker> (Or do you know?)

[22:11] < Davbo> I don't think there would be anywhere to check it into SVN j_baker, just attach it to your application or your website

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